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  #1  
Old 2012-02-06, 14:03
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Out-of-nowhere nitro-meca-pingouin without countdown to explosion!

A bug which I really have no idea how to explain at the moment happened to me - while exploring the Emerald Moon (in a slightly unconventional way), I suddenly hear ticking... After a while I find this random nitro pingouin walking outside of the crater, ticking and having no intention to explode xD

Here is the savegame. Finish the jump and go behind the satellite dish.

http://www.upnito.sk/subor/0c506d38d...15c537195.html

Last edited by draugluin; 2012-02-06 at 14:27.
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  #2  
Old 2012-02-06, 14:38
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Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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yeah, that usually happens when entering a scene you're not supposed to be able to reach, it probably has something to do with the mecha penguin script not activating properly
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  #3  
Old 2012-02-06, 20:36
draugluin draugluin is offline
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How usually is that actually? Can you name some other places where this happens?

It would be interesting to know what precisely is happening, but I guess one would need to see some code. I mean, I can imagine probably mostly correctly what causes the JSB or ferry bug, but this seems more sophisticated or simply I can't imagine the reason right now.
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  #4  
Old 2012-02-07, 02:01
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Polaris Polaris is offline
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Ummm... What am I supposed to click on to download the file ?
You could upload it az a zip on the forum itself.
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  #5  
Old 2012-02-07, 02:05
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Each scene in SCENE.HQR in LBA 2 has a Meca Penguin actor (or whatever it's called, I forgot by now) in there which I take is triggered whenever a Meca Penguin spawns in the area. Well almost each scene. Most likely scenes you're not supposed to ever go in, don't have that there which means when a Meca Penguin spawns there it will simply wander aimlessly. Most likely the info is there but no script, result being a Meca Penguin seemingly auto-spawing on you entering the area, then refusing to explode.
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  #6  
Old 2012-02-07, 14:48
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Battler: Thanks! I definitely need to start looking at the game files.

Polaris: Yeah sorry I was too lazy to be searching for how to upload it here, now I took the neccessary 10 seconds and here it is as zip
Attached Files
File Type: zip dddd.zip‎ (9.4 KB, 25 views)
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  #7  
Old 2012-02-07, 15:20
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Thank you very much
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  #8  
Old 2012-03-04, 21:40
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
...Most likely scenes you're not supposed to ever go in, don't have that there which means when a Meca Penguin spawns there it will simply wander aimlessly. Most likely the info is there but no script, result being a Meca Penguin seemingly auto-spawing on you entering the area, then refusing to explode.
Funny, I just found out a pingouin actually does explode normally (with timer) in the unindexed water scenes. Just most of the time it's not possible to launch it, because of bad terrain, but sometimes when you get good terrain it is. Also, there is no random pingouin spawning there. Is the Emerald moon scene the only indexed scene that was not meant to be accessed?
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  #9  
Old 2012-03-04, 23:43
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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One of them at least.

I have been there (somewhere) aswell, and I know that theoretically there's a scene that you will never actually enter during normal play.

This is sort of the grid:

_________
|*?*|*x*|
-mainstructure-
|*o*|*b*|

The O is where you arrive by shuttle, the B is the building that opens the doors of the main structure, and the X is the scene behind the main structure that contains Jerome's cell. You can walk outside on the moon in the O and B scenes as usual, and only in the X scene because that's where you would go out by cutscene with Baldino after you saved him (you can go outside without the cutscene before you save him, from where you can reach the reactor by JSB). The only other scene in this grid is never visited, which happens to be the scene with the satelite dish

In reality the main structure does not have its own scene. It is just part of the four scenes that you see in the outside area, and you cannot jump over the building crossing the scene borders. The isometric scene exits are the only way of getting to the other side of the main structure on the outside area. So really all you visit are the O and B scenes, and the little area just down the crater outside the back of the main structure in scene X. The fourth scene is never entered from the 3D perspective.
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Last edited by J McKalling; 2012-03-04 at 23:57.
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  #10  
Old 2012-03-05, 00:22
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But that pengiun is on that scene ? How did Twinsen got in it then ?
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  #11  
Old 2012-03-05, 00:32
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
But that pengiun is on that scene ? How did Twinsen got in it then ?
I don't know, I only partly understood the situation. My above explanation is just my own experience, and I do not know to what extend it concerns this pinguin.
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  #12  
Old 2012-03-05, 21:48
draugluin draugluin is offline
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As Jack said, the outside area on the Emerald moon consists of four scenes: northwest, northeast, southwest and southeast.

If anyone is still confused as to what these scenes are and what are their boundaries, just do the following. In menu go to the game options, and set level of detail to minimum. Then in game you will only see the currently active scene.

Clearly seeing the game world divided into square blocks may make you curious about the blocks you never get to enter in a regular gameplay. Since you can use the continuous jump save bug to get basically anywhere, you can venture in these areas. Most of them will be just water areas that border all the islands (or gas, lava or emerald - yes you can drown on the Emerald moon ). Twinsen was never expected to do anything in these but drown (but a further bug allows you to stay alive and move in them), so they don't have much functionality programmed. Most importantly, and to great dismay of challenge solvers, you cannot save the game in these areas and you cannot leave them since there are presumably no zones for such purpose.

The standardly inaccessible north scenes on the Emerald moon are different, and probably unique in this aspect (at least I can't think of any other such scenes). They behave partly like a standard scene (they have normal persistent solid terrain you can move on, you can save the game in them etc.), but since there were not supposed to be ever entered, some functionality may not have been programmed, something may be missing or have not been taken account of by the programmers. As a result of this, there is spontaneous pingouin appearance. Battler gave more concrete information in his post, and I'm sure that if we bothered him enough he'd be able to provide a very concrete and detailed explanation

Edit: I forgot something interesting. Since you can enter the north Emerald moon scenes, there are zones to such end. However, there are no zones for getting back (so the situation is precisely as with the unsaveable-unindexed scenes). Any idea why programmers bothered to create zones to pass in these areas (they never thought were accessible) and then did no zones pointing back? I'm led to ask again, is it possible that something about these zones was automated? That is, the programmers didn't set up detalis for each and every zone manually, but say if they wanted all borders of a scene be passable, they created the zones in some default code? That is very interesting, as it could explain zones appearing where noone should have bothered with creating them.

Last edited by draugluin; 2012-03-05 at 22:02.
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  #13  
Old 2012-03-05, 21:52
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Kobold Kobold is offline
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The northeast scene of the Emerald Moon is accessible. Just go through the X door before freeing Baldino, and you'll reach the outside area. But there's nothing of interest there.
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  #14  
Old 2012-03-05, 22:04
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Oh, thank you Never did that. But the northwest scene is accessible only by JSB.

Anyway I hope someone can resolve the zones question in my last post.
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  #15  
Old 2012-03-05, 22:19
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We do not know the exact programming of LBA 2 outside scenes. This issue is being discussed here.
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  #16  
Old 2012-03-06, 00:02
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draugluin View Post
Oh, thank you Never did that. But the northwest scene is accessible only by JSB.

Anyway I hope someone can resolve the zones question in my last post.
Wait, that's what I already said..? "you can go outside without the cutscene before you save him".

I did try to get over the tunnel part of the main building, that separates the northeast scene from the northwest, but I wasn't able to. Also, when I tried to get on the reactor, it was CLEARLY sliced in the middle by IMpassable borders between scenes. At least from the base of the hill and from the top of the reactor, I could not enter the northwest scene. In short I wasn't convinced you could ever get there. This is the exact reason why I don't understand this pinguin thing?

*Edit:
From the top of the reactor I tried to walk over to the westside but the scenes split it in half. You can't walk into the NW scene, at least not from there.
@draugluin, what do you mean NW is only accessible by JSB?
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Good for everyone is finding yourself first,
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Last edited by J McKalling; 2012-03-06 at 00:12.
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  #17  
Old 2012-03-06, 20:39
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Uh, I am at a computer that doesn't have LBA2 installed at the moment.

Could you verify, that the savegame I posted in this thread's first post IS in the northwest region? (I'm mostly sure, just in case)

If it is, then I got there by JSB. I don't remember where precisely I entered the scene, but since it gave me no trouble, I succumbed to the impression that it is easy to get in.
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  #18  
Old 2012-03-06, 21:00
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It is the Northwest.
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  #19  
Old 2012-03-06, 21:11
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J McKalling J McKalling is offline
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If you're at the shuttle landing platforms, and face the main building, you'll see behind the building the reactor, and to its left the satelite dish (maybe not from this angle, but that's where they're located). It is thus the scene with the satelite dish that is the northwest. I will try the savegame soon when I get the time.

In the mean time, could you recall from where you entered the scene, which jump did you take?

I remember myself that the hills around the crater are accessible by JSB from down in the open, or from the backside of the main building (where the cutscene with the spaceship starts), but that the south two scenes don't allow access to the north two, and that I couldn't get into the northwest from the northeast. That's all I know, but I haven't tried everything.
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Visit the Twinsuniverse to find everything about the LBA universe!

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Words come in all sizes. But even if they fit you,
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Good for everyone is finding yourself first,
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  #20  
Old 2012-03-08, 20:46
draugluin draugluin is offline
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Maybe I was running around the top of the crater, but I can't tell for sure. Really I'll just have to check it when I get to LBA2 again.
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