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-   -   LBA2 3D Chat (https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=13485)

Lupin 2008-03-13 00:40

LBA2 3D Chat
 
1 Attachment(s)
After spending a few weeks working on an island viewer with the help of Leslie's work in this thread. I've decided it's time to make my own thread.
So this project's aim is to make some sort of LBA2 online game.
Here are the different steps of development:
  1. LBA2 Island viewer
  2. Characters + Indoors (Grids)
  3. Simple chat client and server
  4. Gameplay features (with your help for ideas)

Here comes a screenshot of what I've got so far on the island viewer (this works for every island in LBA2):

LBAWinOwns 2008-03-13 14:28

Did you uncover the whole format for the LBA2 Island?

Quetch 2008-03-13 17:07

wooooowwww how the hell did u make that ????

leoboe 2008-03-13 17:16

As you know from my PN I'd love to join the team if there will be one.
I'm gonna send you a few Ideas for the Interface soon.

Looks freakin' cool btw ;)

Lupin 2008-03-13 20:23

LBAWinOwns - No, if you look at Chez Luc you'll notice some badly textured triangles, and those are not alone. The lighting on objects with no textures doesn't take the object's orientation into account yet (ex: some trees look like the light comes from another place than the other trees). As for the textured objects, their lighting data are not loaded yet.

Quetch - Read this thread and this one. :)

leoboe - There will be no team before I manage to build a working prototype. Then we'll see... This project needs mostly programming skills (C++).
You can share your ideas now, so that we can discuss what you guys would like this chat to do, and what's feasible. But I repeat this, I need some time to load all needed resources from LBA2, design a protocol and build a client and server, etc. So maybe it's a bit early to talk about a team. But it's never too early to post ideas.

Quetch 2008-03-13 20:45

hmm so Link, are you into Torque now ??? :)

Lupin 2008-03-13 20:49

Héhé, not exactly, LBA2's rotations are simple :)

Quetch 2008-03-13 21:16

huh ? :) please make me understand what this is all about cause I saw some pictures with the Torque logo

Lupin 2008-03-13 21:31

It's Ogre, not Torque, I though you were using the word torque...

Quetch 2008-03-13 22:37

ahhh Ogre sorry :) dunno what came with Torque :) so are u using that now ??? how are u and DarkBasic ???

Lupin 2008-03-13 22:42

DarkBasic is good when beginning with programing, now I moved to the next step.
I've been making a lot of progress in 3 years (I'm studying computer science).
DarkBasic now seems so easy and limited.

Streg 2008-03-13 23:02

hey thats great link!
:O
i think i will use it for "Little Big Wars", taking screenshots of maps!
me and my brother are going to start working again on summer ;)

Lupin 2008-03-13 23:10

What language/game engine do you use for Little Big Wars ? I could easily make a API for LBA2 island loading for Ogre users, so you could directly use the models for LBW...

Streg 2008-03-13 23:24

my bro wants to do the whole engine in c++ so that he can also make a little editor for it
for now the character can move and attack, but they dont collide or go off the screen etc and AI is all to be done
btw the game will be in 2D so all we need is screenshots of the maps

Quetch 2008-03-14 14:35

lol it ain't limited :) have you seen the range of additional tools it now supports ??? I think it's the most complex engine ever ... you can now make use of:

- 2D Kit = complete set of 2D commands for a pure-2D engine
- Enhanced Anims - additional tools for animation manipulation with limbs, etc.
- Dark Shader - Pixel Shader made easy with Point & Click interface
- Dark Lights - Lightning support made easy
with Point & Click interface
- Dark A.I. - Artificial Intelligence made easy with Point & Click interface
- Dark Physics - Newtonian physics made easy with Point & Click interface
- STYX = ActiveX, Flash, XML and much more
- eXtends = Hundreds of exciting new commands
- Unity = LUA support for your games
- BlueGUI2 = Windows GUI and dialog commands
- EZRotate = Eulerian rotation support
- Enhancement Pack = OGG replay, File Blocks, EAX and more
- Texture Max = One model, infinite texture variations
- Nuclear Glory = Sliding collision and physics made easy
- Character Shop = Object animator with dozens of pre-defined animations
- SkyMatter - collection of skyboxes
- ExGen - Advanced particle studio
- Action3D - Reduce your objects' polycount
- ProMotion - Pixel-perfect art for your games
- T.ED = Terrain editor
- Cartography Shop = Level and map editor
- 3D World Studio = The next evolution in world building
- Dark Voices = Lip-sync support
- SFXEngine = Special sound effects studio
- DarkMatter - collection of classic games models
- SoundMatter - collection of classic game sounds
- TreeMagik = Make trees with ease
- PlantLife = Make plants, rocks and vegetation with ease


and many others but my hand hurts so I'll stop here :)
btw: Link, have you managed to make your own sliding collision system ??? or does Ogre have its own now ???

RobG 2008-03-14 17:06

Hey Link, that's coming on great. Sounds like an interesting idea you have there.

I was wondering if you have thought about separating the land into sections. Basically largish square sections that can be rendered individually so you aren't always rendering the entire map if you are only looking at a small part of it. Just a thought towards performance optimization.

@Quetch: I think Link means limited in the sense that no matter how many features someone else's engine offers, coding your own is always more specific to your needs.

OGRE is a rendering engine not a game engine, so it will never have collision "built in" but it does have some helper functions and there are many free physics libraries out there that can be integrated.

Quetch 2008-03-14 17:13

yeah I've checked the site and I saw all that :) pitty it's not a true game engine as it looks promising ... anyway I don't think Link is trying to make his own ( are you link ? :) ) ... but if he does, that's a great step forward my friend ;)

Lupin 2008-03-14 19:54

@Quetch: Ogre is meant to be used not only by game creators, but everybody who needs to deal with 3d rendering. Using different frameworks for 3d rendering, collision detection, network, etc, allows much more flexibility. DarkBasic is good for what it is. But it's not a professional tool.
As for the game engine, I'll make my own. There is no other way on such project.

This project is particularly interesting for me because it's both LBA-related and it's full of commonly occurring software design problems to solve. This is a good way to study/review design patterns, conception, client/server network architecture. This also allows me to learn more about LBA2's file, 2D/3D game programing and reverse engineering.

@RobG: I've thought of separating the islands sections as they are separated in the *.ILE files. I'll have to rethink the way I build the mesh anyway, it's too slow as it is. I'll switch to hardware buffers now that I'm more familiar with LBA2's format and Ogre.

I'm currently thinking about how I will handle both 3D and 2D(isometric 3D) render in one single engine, trying to share a maximum of things, like collision detection. From what I've seen so far, Ogre is not good with 2D. I wonder how I could make a 2D engine and Ogre share the same viewport.
I'm considering switching to an OpenGL/SDL or DirectX/SDL solution (most likely OpenGL for future portability and because I've used it before, thought DirectX is a bit faster). That would permit more flexibility and I could use features like indexed colors and dithering which are not available in Ogre to have a render closer to the original game. What do you think ?

Quetch 2008-03-14 20:55

lol I know ... DarkBasic is just for games and it was designed mainly for that .... Ogre is a low-level API that can be implemented on many rendering-imposing projects ... but then again, it's not meant for games primarily ... DB is good because it can integrate many gaming-related software such as advanced physics simulators and has many game-related functionalities .... also, it is professional as many great games have been developed with it as you may already know :) Ogre, on the other hand beats the hell out of him regarding graphic rendering which cannot be compared with the one of DB .... but as you said, let's use them for what they are so I'll stick to DB for games and maybe switch to Ogre in a few months when I'll have to do some rendering projects :D

Kobold 2008-03-14 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetch (Post 345880)
lol I know ... DarkBasic is just for games and it was designed mainly for that .... Ogre is a low-level API that can be implemented on many rendering-imposing projects ... but then again, it's not meant for games primarily ... DB is good because it can integrate many gaming-related software such as advanced physics simulators and has many game-related functionalities .... also, it is professional as many great games have been developed with it as you may already know :) Ogre, on the other hand beats the hell out of him regarding graphic rendering which cannot be compared with the one of DB .... but as you said, let's use them for what they are so I'll stick to DB for games and maybe switch to Ogre in a few months when I'll have to do some rendering projects :D

Please use full stops, that's impossible to read. :hmpf:

Lupin 2008-03-14 21:44

DarkBasic doesn't have native support for those gaming-related softwares, it only allows you to integrate them. When working with C++, you have no such limitations.
The difference between DarkBasic and C++ with a rendering engine is the same difference as between playing with duplos and legos. It's hard to explain. It's just the next step.
I've started creating games with RPG Maker, then I switched to The Game Factory because it allowed doing more things, then I felt this was not enough so I decided to learn a programing language and I switched to DarkBasic, the next step was using the DarkBasic engine (Dark Game SDK) with a real programing language (C++), but I realized that was like trying to play legos with duplo's bricks.
So this is just the next step to professional game programing.

Quetch 2008-03-14 22:14

well yeah I mean that IS the next step but don't forget that DB is only a commercial limited version of an underneath system upon which FPSCreatorX10 was built ... so it allows much more flexibility, even more than the Ogre one ... so on short, both are limited in some ways but at the same time, both are made from a language which has, in theory, no limitations :)

Kobold: sorry :D it's just that I tend to write exactly how I would speak so whenever you see endless ....., please note that those are intonation marks :D

Lupin 2008-03-14 23:23

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I think you don't really know what ogre is, and you can't compare BASIC with C++...
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How about a isometric LBA2 ? (Just experimenting with Ogre's orthographic projection...)

Zerath^ 2008-03-15 00:22

Now thats cool :p but I, personally would rather see a chat world of lba in full 3d :)

Quetch 2008-03-15 06:23

yep, isometric has run its time :) and why use it anyway as iso is just a coverup for fake 3d ... so especially because you have Ogre now, 3D should be exploited to its maximum :)


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