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ChaosFish 2008-03-18 14:51

"xcelengine" link is broken. That Google office reminds me an episode of Dilbert. It's looks ridiculously awesome.

About science, the best science can ever hope to do is to disprove theories. We use intuition to come up with ideas, and science to disprove them. That's the simple process of discovery. (not I said that, I read it in Lily Splane's book "Quantum Consciousness")

Darkflame 2008-03-18 17:58

link fixed.

And of course, science is the process not of finding the "truth" about the universe, but making increasingly more accurate models by proving where we are wrong.

Newtons physics, Einstein, Quantum.
Each proved the last wrong. But that was not to say the old models were badly, only when you look closely, they wernt as good as the new.

Progressively better, progressively matching the real world results better as we increase are observations.
Its foolish to ever think we will hit an absolutely truth. (well, 'cept for mathematics, but thats truth by definition).
I do think we will get to a stage one day where science can predict things to a level beyond are ability to observe it being wrong however :p (like, when we are using black holes for microscopes :p)

Jasiek 2008-03-19 02:05

To say each of the new one proves the old one wrong, is really not true(of course only if the theory 'worked'). Newton still applies, Einstein still applies - each one to his own scale, as you go deeper and deeper into the subatomic world, that's where the rules change and you need to adopt a wider theory. But it never disproves previous observations, but rather widens the range of the observation, which forces you to conceive a wider theory.

And Mule gets better I see, the scene on Ice was really kind of disturbing... It starts to feel alive...

Also, the LHC is kind of disturbing too, all that talk about black holes and recreating the Big Bang conditions... makes me think of Half-Life or the recent "Mist"...

Lupin 2008-03-19 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasiek (Post 346138)
And Mule gets better I see, the scene on Ice was really kind of disturbing... It starts to feel alive...

It definitely feel alive !

Darkflame 2008-03-19 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasiek (Post 346138)
To say each of the new one proves the old one wrong, is really not true(of course only if the theory 'worked'). Newton still applies, Einstein still applies - each one to his own scale, as you go deeper and deeper into the subatomic world, that's where the rules change and you need to adopt a wider theory. But it never disproves previous observations, but rather widens the range of the observation, which forces you to conceive a wider theory.

Not at all.
Einstein proves Newton wrong.
Completely.
On many levels. Not just scale but speed. Not just scale and speed but mass.

The fact that newton had the best theory possible due to measurements at that time (and for a very very long time after) is high praise enough.
But lets not kid ourselves.
Saying newton is right is like saying Pi = 3.14
Good enough for every day typical use, but clearly not the true value.

Its only correct to a certain level of accuracy, and that level of accuracy is far from infinite. (which, imho, would be the requirement for something to be an absolute truth).

I was wrong partly however.
You could though, say that Quantom/Einstine work at different scales and both are "correct". Thats only because (unlike Newton), one theory dosnt replace the other. In Einstines model, it still gives you results newton did, only more accurate. However, Quantom theory dosnt deal with relativistic effects at all, and relativity dosnt deal with quantom effects at all.

But that only more highlights the fact we are currently "wrong".

I have no dought that one day we will have theorys that give not only more accurate results, but in a wider range of "scales".

Jasiek 2008-03-19 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkflame (Post 346141)
Saying newton is right is like saying Pi = 3.14
Good enough for every day typical use, but clearly not the true value.

That's what I meant. Doesn't really make the other wrong, just not accurate in the new scale we operate in.


More LHC

ChaosFish 2008-03-19 13:37

Half-Life. That's the one. Exciting times are coming :)

Lupin 2008-03-19 13:44

Maybe they'll just discover nothing significant.

ChaosFish 2008-03-19 13:49

That's the spirit!

Darkflame 2008-03-19 14:27

It would be very hard to discover nothing.
At the very least, it will dissprove a lot of string theorys.
==

Anyway, back to my favorate tech, I want to visit this;
http://www.futuroscope.com/attractio...x-du-futur.php
:)

Lupin 2008-03-19 16:50

Yeah, but if they already expect it to disprove some theories, it may not be worth the investment. Anyway, we'll soon know...
--
I might be near futuroscope next month, maybe I'll drop by and check on that new attraction :)

Darkflame 2008-03-19 19:26

Quote:

Yeah, but if they already expect it to disprove some theories, it may not be worth the investment.
There are many, many, many string theory's.
Thats the big problem.
Some scientists have said its as good as worthless because it predicts everything.. If it doesn't match results, they just say "well this string theory deals with another universe".
Seriously, major problem :D
A theory is worthless unless it can predict things in our universe.

So if we can disprove, say, half the possible string theory's (collectively called M-theory), then we will at least we would have made some progress.

So yes, they expect it will disprove a lot, seeing as quite a few are mutual exclusive.
What they don't know is which it will disprove :p
So fear not, short of the thing not working or destroying the world, we will get some results from it, even if they arnt spectactular.

Quote:

I might be near futuroscope next month, maybe I'll drop by and check on that new attraction
Yeah, I went about 8 years ago with my parents.
Was pretty fun.
I'm hoping to find time to go again this year.

ChaosFish 2008-03-19 23:14

Ugh, what's a string theory, again?

Darkflame 2008-03-20 23:03

Basically a mathematical model of the universe that states everything can be predicted/represented by small vibrating strings. (normally loops).
So think of it as being the ultimate building blocks of the universe.
Molecules>>Atoms>>Electrons/Neutrons etc>>Quarks>>(maybe something else)>>Strings.

Something like that anyway.
Not to say the universe really is made from small strings, only that the model could tie relativity and quantum mechanics together and thus one day be "more correct" the present models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...g+theory&go=Go

====

Anyway, more real stuff;
http://christopherbaker.net/2007/08/...siggraph-2007/

A few neat things, allthough I'm starting to dislike the fact everyones chasing minority-report interfaces.
They look cool, but really, they arnt that practical.

Jasiek 2008-03-25 02:12

Quantum Weirdness!

This is a cool represantation of that whole quantum ordeal ^^.

Darkflame 2008-03-25 02:34

Seen it before, but yes, it sums up quantom weirdness nicely.
imho though, I think it just points that electrons are never like balls or waves but something else.
(and when they say act of measuring/observing purhapes we should always think about how thats being done. Maybe the act of observing removes energy thats holding the sub-electron wave together and it splits into particals again.).


=========

fun robot;
http://jwz.livejournal.com/852741.html

simonzack 2008-03-25 10:54

"A theory is worthless unless it can predict things in our universe."
If string theory's correct, this should also apply to parrelel ones
:p

Darkflame 2008-03-25 16:26

Well, the question is matching which versions to which universe :p
A version of string theory applys to ours, and A version of it applys to that star-trek evil universe, but which is which?
Is the evil beard constant higher in their universe?

Jasiek 2008-03-29 01:17

BigDog 'beta'

^That killed me, to death.

The Chairbot is awesome:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x3Qtx2CHwtw

Jasiek 2008-03-31 20:11

Pretty awesome hexapod :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqWKGh4XLbk

And this one is "omg!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFZvXuOIVMs

Awesome motorbike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs4GXH5Q3Rk

Darkflame 2008-03-31 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasiek (Post 346878)

Looks like the bottom of Asimo with a chair stuck on top :p

Zerath^ 2008-03-31 22:37

Motorbikes should be motorbikes :/ when you feel the power and hear the roar it makes as you accelerate down the highway :) .

Jasiek 2008-03-31 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerath^ (Post 347078)
Motorbikes should be motorbikes :/ when you feel the power and hear the roar it makes as you accelerate down the highway :) .

Motorbikes should be gone. Along with the internal combustion engine and cars running on it.

Sooo, now that ppl are getting it into their heads that electric motors have more power and torque in them... the argument against it is the lack of (sic!) deafening noise?!

Get real, noise in the cities is a huge problem. The major of the population shouldn't suffer becouse of a irresponsible hobbyist.

Darkflame 2008-04-01 11:12

You can always add the noise back in with a speaker anyway :p

I mean, you could then have an electric bike you can program to sound like any other bike of your choice.
For safty reasons things shouldnt be completely silent anyway, but its not a big deal.

Jasiek 2008-04-01 18:39

And off goes Space tourism! :D
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviat...-space-vehicle


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