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Jasiek 2008-12-26 02:04

LBAWinOwns, what if your decompressing algorithm knew that the string 1234 is always followed by 5678? Like the brain, it would seek out familiarities and fill in the blanks based on experience/programming. Perhaps we should leave the realm of digits and move into a more analog world. The file contains the word orange, and the decompresser immediately brings us the smell,taste,touch sensations associated with the orange?


I saw this lecture on ted recently, about recording not a musical track, but the keystroke pressures and tempo of piano keys, and them making a computerized piano recreate the exact same condition. a file containing that information is smaller then one containing the sound. Like a beefed up midi.

What if a similar method is made for other data?

LBAWinOwns 2008-12-26 02:18

Well, you can never do that for random raw data. But you can do that where you can speculate, and that's compression that actually can work, But it can never work for random data where it's impossible to speculate.

PNG is a loseless compression, so the technology do exist, I don't know how it works to be honest, but I can guarnatee you that it can't make all images smaller, it uses the fact that most pictures doesn't contain random pixels.

Another better example is zipping files. It knows that some patterns are common, but it can't compress a file with random data.



However, the future for data compression does not lie in lossless compression, we have to use lossy compression in order to make a huge decrement of the compressed output size. For example, you can compress the smell, taste and of two oranges to one 'standard-orange'. Even if the two oranges probably taste and smell a tiny bit differently, so you've actually lost the actual exact taste of the orange. The trade-off is that you only store 'orange' twice (takes less space), and can decompress their smell and taste to a regular orange, which most likely is similar to how those two oranges tasted. (actually, there could have been just one orange)

All movie codecs use lossy compression.

Darkflame 2008-12-26 02:34

Basicaly switching from littoral arrangement of data to a system of storing it semantically.
You store concepts, not the data itself. (which is how our own memory works).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosFish (Post 370976)
My idea has all huge files compressed to 8kb or even less regardless of their content. I know it probably seems like total bullshit without me telling more about it, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be viable.

*tries to tune into CF's brain*
Spoiler:

The only method I can think your thinking of, would work..in principle...but your probably hugely underestimating the size of the "other bit" your using.
For 8kb to uniquely discribe a film, any film, your look up table would probably end up being the size of earth. Or googles hard drive...whatevers smaller.

Medur 2008-12-26 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkflame (Post 370997)
Spoiler:

The only method I can think your thinking of, would work..in principle...but your probably hugely underestimating the size of the "other bit" your using.
For 8kb to uniquely discribe a film, any film, your look up table would probably end up being the size of earth. Or googles hard drive...whatevers smaller.

Spoiler:
Yeah. This kind of compression might actually become viable if we find some extraordinary method of storing information. But then we probably we won't need it anyway.

ChaosFish 2008-12-26 08:36

Whatsa lookup table? *looks at Wikipedia*


I feel like an ass. But you're all way off. (actually, I love it)

ChaosFish 2008-12-26 09:06

Btw, bit of a red herring, but did you know human DNA only takes up as much as 3 gigabytes? That's less than one plain DVD disc. I always found it amazing.

Darkflame 2008-12-26 13:27

Indeed. But that dosnt mean that DNA could describe every possible creature shape, merely that we are one of the shapes it can describe.
In many ways we are like a fractual....a lot of complexity springing from a simple formula.
Thats why it would be so lovely to find alien life, because ultimately we share a lot in common with every other animal on this planet. A completely alien form of life wouldnt just look different to us, but would have a completely different "tree" of possible shapes.

Quetch 2008-12-27 22:15

why do people still search for water on Mars ??? it will NEVER be found because of Mars itself. It ain't like water doesn't exist there cause Quetch doesn't want it to, but it's because the soil on Mars has a very very high concentration of olivine (also called peridot if I remember correctly) which would dissolve almost instantaneously in the presence of water. Also the temperature and atmosphere on Mars would make water evaporate in a matter of hours.

So Mars never had, doesn't have and never will have water cause:

1) a tricky mineral called olivine exists and it would get dissolved if water would be there
2) the atmosphere and temperature make the existance of water plaudable for a matter of hours only.

So please start looking for water on another planet thank u :)

ChaosFish 2008-12-27 23:02

You're out of date... Water was already found on Mars.

Quetch 2008-12-27 23:34

hmm somehow I don't believe it

Darkflame 2008-12-28 01:26

Theres pictures ealier in the thread.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ce-update.html
There is very,very certainly water on mars. Mostly in the form of ice under the surface, but at polar regions you can actually see some;

http://wanderingspace.net/wp-content...mars-water.jpg

Incidently, theres also water on the moon pools. Allthough not like that.

Quetch 2008-12-28 10:39

nonono I don't want pics. There have been other false alarms in the past. What I want is a probe to actually go out there and return with a water sample.

Jasiek 2008-12-28 11:34

There was water evaporation photographed, and water in dirt samples that clogged up some equipment, and then evaporated the next day making the dirt dry out and fall off.

Darkflame 2008-12-28 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetch (Post 371151)
nonono I don't want pics. There have been other false alarms in the past. What I want is a probe to actually go out there and return with a water sample.

A probe is there, and confirmed water. As well as overhead satelites picking up strong signs of water in the polar regions where the above photos were taken. (that is, they detected soil enriched with hydrogen, and water ice is by far the most likely explanation for that)

Returning is an extreamly tall order, however, at this stage.

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/dodo_020_024.gif

Note the dissapering things in the lower left corner.
Thats almost certainly the sublimation of ice.
Alone its not enough to prove water, but with the other messurements on the ground, in space, and the photos at the polls, its pretty darn certain overall.

Quetch 2008-12-28 15:51

now I'm confused ... u say that a probe is there and has confirmed there IS water on Mars, yet again u say that by some measurements and tests we can determine if there is water or not ? make up ur mind please :p

Kobold 2008-12-28 15:54

It means "confirmed until disproven".

Darkflame 2008-12-28 16:41

Being confirmed is not a boolean state, it becomes more and more sure with increased evidence.
We have 3 separate pieces of evidence now, all individual point strongly to water.
What we are seeing is something that looks (reflects light) and acts (sublimates) like ice, and also contains hydrogen.
It also clogs up like mud.

If it was merely the photo above, or the hydrogen readings, or the mud like substance it wouldnt be enough to be sure. But all 3? Thats pretty certain.
(and thats not the only evidence either, but the big ones)

Quetch 2008-12-28 17:03

well when I first said I wanted proof, I meant for a probe to go there and analyze it. We can have 100 simultaneous pieces of evidence but if all of them are be it photos, measurements, etc. taken from a distance, they value nothing to me. All I want is for a sample analysis to be taken, put in a lab and see if there are any H2O, H3O, H2O2 bonds inside or not

Jasiek 2008-12-28 18:05

I posted pics of snow falling in there too btw.

Darklfame, old news, there is water there on 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasa
Laboratory tests aboard NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander have identified water in a soil sample. The lander's robotic arm delivered the sample Wednesday to an instrument that identifies vapors produced by the heating of samples.

"We have water," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead scientist for the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. "We've seen evidence for this water ice before in observations by the Mars Odyssey orbiter and in disappearing chunks observed by Phoenix last month, but this is the first time Martian water has been touched and tasted."

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ph...-20080731.html

Quetch 2008-12-28 18:48

Quote:

"We have water," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona
now all we need to find is some green fella and we're throwing an intergallactic New Year :D

Odysseus 2008-12-29 05:01

Wait a second. The start of next year will be delayed by circumstances beyond everyone's control. Time will stand still (read more)

:hmpf:

ChaosFish 2008-12-29 07:41

Yeta!!!

Bot13 2008-12-29 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odysseus (Post 371206)
Wait a second.

:lol:

RGaspar 2008-12-30 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odysseus (Post 371206)
Wait a second. The start of next year will be delayed by circumstances beyond everyone's control. Time will stand still (read more)

:hmpf:

What a waste of time. :lol::lol:

Gustav Sweden 2008-12-30 06:56

Doesn't that mean that eventually, we'll have summer in december?


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