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-   -   [LBA Prequel] Prequel Job Opening - Experienced C/C++ Programmer Needed! (https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=13666)

MBN Bot 2008-05-17 18:10

[LBA Prequel] Prequel Job Opening - Experienced C/C++ Programmer Needed!
 
The LBA Prequel Team is looking for experienced C/C++ programmer with
knowledge about reversing engineer to help out with a new side project.
We decide a better engine with few improvements like better movies, sound and musics, portability, etc., will be necessary for a better project progress. This way we create a side project named Prequengine totaly indempendent from Prequel game itself. At first we want this new team only focus in the engine and not in the game content.
For more informations about this project and its progress, take a look at the "The Engine" link in main menu.
All submissions should include samples of your work. Please apply today by sending an email to [email address]. Remember, we would like someone who is able to begin work right away. If you think you can help, please send us an email!

Read more...

Lightwing 2008-05-17 19:16

Let me make this clear:

The Prequel engine will become an open source engine that will let any other team create LBA1 modifications.

Zerath^ 2008-05-17 19:24

That sounds very generous and great :D

Lightwing 2008-05-17 21:15

It's a project that will benefit everyone. So if you think you fit the bill, please join.

Double-J 2008-05-19 14:34

Agreed, with some tweaks we really hope to bring a lot of additions that would be impossible with the original engine (including higher quality voices and no more MIDI music).

RGaspar 2008-05-20 13:08

Holy shit!

That was unpredictable!

Is it the game engine been done from scratch?

Streg 2008-05-20 15:10

they're using the lba1 engine afaik

Double-J 2008-05-20 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoGaspar (Post 350919)
Holy shit!

That was unpredictable!

Is it the game engine been done from scratch?

Not from scratch. We need to slightly modify it in order to a.) get rid of some limitations of the original engine that are causing us problems and b.) implement new features that will make it a better game.

xesf 2008-05-20 17:11

Well, it depends of what "from scratch" means to everyone.
As from scratch I mean, starting a new engine without using the code directly given by TwinEngine, but start from zero looking at original engine dissambly and TwinEngine steps.
Improving TwinEngine at this stage will be a bunch of work, much more than see how it is done there and remake it, thats why we are starting a new engine called Prequengine, but alsways keep TwinEngine as source.

The main goal now is to build things that aren't made yet in TwinEngine and I've got some fews already.

Kobold 2008-05-20 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexfont (Post 350943)
The main goal now is to build things that aren't made yet in TwinEngine and I've got some fews already.

Drowning in water instead of walking over it would be a good start.

Double-J 2008-05-20 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobold (Post 350944)
Drowning in water instead of walking over it would be a good start.

You didn't realize that Twinsen = Jesus? |)

xesf 2008-05-20 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobold (Post 350944)
Drowning in water instead of walking over it would be a good start.

Yeah, indeed, but we are a bit far from that point yet. Anyway, its good to have help by pointing all those stuffs aren't well in TwinEngine.

RGaspar 2008-05-21 13:14

Is it just me feeling that the new task will take ages?

Double-J 2008-05-21 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoGaspar (Post 351046)
Is it just me feeling that the new task will take ages?

Working on a customized version of the original engine + Time = Better Game
Working with the original engine and its limitation + time = Spinning wheels and an inferior game.

xesf 2008-05-21 15:54

Exactly, we are trying to improve the LBA engine the way we can take some benifits of it. We all know it will take some time, but it could be worst it. It will also be available for all the other projects, and not only for Prequel.

I'm currently building the engine alone. I have 2 more people in the team but they are a bit busy right now, so they probably won't give much input soon. Anyway, I have in mind that in at least 1 year, we will be able to have a alpha version of thos engine running for tests.

Double-J 2008-05-21 16:11

Plus, it isn't like the rest of us are stopping while Alex and his guys work on the revamped engine. There is still plenty of work being done on the rest of the project, be it grids, layouts, story modifications, movies, musics, etc. When the engine is finished, we'll be ready.

Martyvej 2008-05-22 00:14

Bleh o.O think engine work is a bit too high-tech for my low-level c++ so far.
But i wish you luck with your endavour (most likely spelled that wrong but wth.) ^^ and specially looking forward to when you show us the improvements in the form of videos/screenshots/demos :D

RGaspar 2008-05-22 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-J (Post 351084)
Plus, it isn't like the rest of us are stopping while Alex and his guys work on the revamped engine. There is still plenty of work being done on the rest of the project, be it grids, layouts, story modifications, movies, musics, etc. When the engine is finished, we'll be ready.

I hope so ^^

Can't wait for the demo.


You're starting to follow the DN forever style...


Mmm that last line was evil :lol:

Double-J 2008-05-22 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoGaspar (Post 351146)
You're starting to follow the DN forever style...


We simply misjudged the problems that the original engine gave us. A year ago, we figured that most of these could be solved or worked around, but after struggling with trying to get the demo going, it became evident that it would be easier and more efficient in the long run to dedicate time to revamping certain parts of it rather than trying to keep banging out heads against a brick wall.

I know it pisses me off.

RGaspar 2008-05-22 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-J (Post 351224)
I know it pisses me off.

My lines pisses you off?

Or the bump-into-the-wall thing into LBA1?



------------------------------------------------

Curiosly what you said sounds a lot more 3DRealms answers...

:p:p

Double-J 2008-05-22 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertoGaspar (Post 351228)
My lines pisses you off?

No, I meant the issues with the engine.

Quetch 2008-06-24 12:50

I still think it's futile ... people with such experience like you should start making the game from scratch ... in 1-2 years it would be complete and WELL done ... why try reinventing the wheel ??? for me it just doesn't add up ... the whole LBA engine thing being used to make a game is .... stupid, sorry :( it's like me and Jasiek would try to extract the models from the original LBA for years, wasting time, instead of making our own (which we do) ...

xesf 2008-06-24 13:27

Well, we actually aren't reinventing the wheel. We are trying to produce an engine well known to us. I know starting a new engine from scratch instead of using LBA engine is great but it also have cons. Since the project started we are trying to improve our tools as best as we can to fit those projects and we are getting something. If we use a complete new engine all this work will be post apart and won't be used which is unfair. Also as you may see, we don't have such time and resources to build an entire new engine. I'm still doing Prequengine alone with minor help from other member and isn't easy for someone who could only spend 8/14h week to build such engine. The demo implementation should continue soon and I wouldn't have all the time for the engine only, so it also won't be easy to setup all those things without a major help.

This engine will be also something we deserve for so long. It will allow LBA1 to be run in different OSystems and allow other projects like Prequengine, TGR etc. to easy interact with the engine.

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-24 13:30

It won't be the same feeling if they used a engine not alike the LBA1 engine.


However I really don't see what should take time in creating the engine when Twin-E already has the most vital code already.

Quetch 2008-06-24 14:26

1) in life, there comes a time when you have to be smart enough to let go of something, even though you've put so much effort in it ... letting go of it will give you the chance of creating something bigger, worthier, thus your previous work will not be in vain, but it will live through the new one

2) you don't have to make an engine in C/C++ ... my God, I never said that ... all I wanted to say is use an already built engine, like Torque, Ogre, Blitz, etc. (there are thousands out there) and start making a game in no time (I say this cause I know what u guys are capable of :))

3) perfecting the tools .... hmm .. so what ??? even if you'd have the original ones, you still will be WAY limited ... think of it this way: the absolute state of perfection of this project can be nothing more than a game like the original LBA ... still, there are very very few chances that you will ever achieve that, so you will probably end up spending years with a game far worse than the original LBA which is now ... well .... 14 years old ...... so u should start focusing on something new, cause you'd make wonders with your skills ;)

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-24 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetch (Post 354589)
1) in life, there comes a time when you have to be smart enough to let go of something, even though you've put so much effort in it ... letting go of it will give you the chance of creating something bigger, worthier, thus your previous work will not be in vain, but it will live through the new one

I think that's a poor argument, what they are trying to achieve is to a huge extent a game with the same feel as LBA1, they are not trying to make a game with the best rendered graphics.


However, I think what you said is correct, as long as it's about maximized productivity and innovations, LBAPrequel has a cultural value gained from being alike LBA1.

Quetch 2008-06-24 16:28

all I'm saying is that (apart from the fact that I do NOT want a cool graphics game), all I want is to see this team's efforts in terms of productivity ... they've been working on this for ..... like FOREVER and still, we don't even have a single single single .EXE with the smallest scene ... don't u think they should REALIZE this ain't going anywhere and start making accomplishable things ??? I'm not saying they're lazy or anything, just that they are wasting time with things which won't ever see the light of day .... don't be mad at me, I'm just pointing facts here ... again, what they should do is VALUE their time and talent and start making a game the normal way ... hacking an engine will lead NOWHERE ... period

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-24 17:55

As mentioned, the engine is already 'hacked', the result is Twin-Engine.

Also, their primary object wasn't to create a .EXE, just to edit the data files to create LBAPrequel.

Quetch 2008-06-24 18:26

I know but ... they have to make up their minds on WHAT they want .... tools or a game ...

Zerath^ 2008-06-24 18:37

why not both? :)

elmuerte 2008-06-24 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBAWinOwns (Post 354627)
As mentioned, the engine is already 'hacked', the result is Twin-Engine.

Twin-Engine isn't a hacked version of the original engine. It's a reimplementation.

Quetch 2008-06-24 20:12

yes and it's a very very partial one if I may say so

xesf 2008-06-25 21:15

First of all we want to make a game using LBA1 engine, that's for sure. You can called it a mod, if you think its the perfect name for it. Even the project has grows a lot from what we expect initially we can make it grow too much more exactly because a lot of time passed and we only have a lot of background work not so much of visible one. Anyway, isn't creating a new engine (yes, by new engine I mean using engines SDKs like Ogre3D) would require much more effort, time and human values to make it which we don't have at all. We are a small team and as you can see, even with the job request here, I'm still alone doing Prequengine and I can't do something bigger alone. For a task like you're saying at least 5 people working hard on it I'll need, not to say that a engine game architecture would need to be made.

I understand your frustation but isn't easy having a team when 50% work, and 50% study or something like that with only few hours for week we can spend on this.

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-25 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmuerte (Post 354637)
Twin-Engine isn't a hacked version of the original engine. It's a reimplementation.

Bah...

Twin-Engine is a reversed engineering of the original LBA executable. Reverse engineering is done by 'hackers', therefore I think it's fair to say that the LBA engine has been 'hacked'.

Yet, I can see your point of view: It's rewritten, recompiled and recreated, as opposed to being sightly edited/hacked.

xesf 2008-06-25 21:36

... which is a great help for this engine.

I was actually to improve twin-e, but I thought will be better to use its code rewrote.

elmuerte 2008-06-25 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBAWinOwns (Post 354740)
Twin-Engine is a reversed engineering of the original LBA executable. Reverse engineering is done by 'hackers', therefore I think it's fair to say that the LBA engine has been 'hacked'.

no, that's not correct.

Double-J 2008-06-25 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetch (Post 354618)
all I'm saying is that (apart from the fact that I do NOT want a cool graphics game), all I want is to see this team's efforts in terms of productivity ... they've been working on this for ..... like FOREVER and still, we don't even have a single single single .EXE with the smallest scene ... don't u think they should REALIZE this ain't going anywhere and start making accomplishable things ??? I'm not saying they're lazy or anything, just that they are wasting time with things which won't ever see the light of day .... don't be mad at me, I'm just pointing facts here ... again, what they should do is VALUE their time and talent and start making a game the normal way ... hacking an engine will lead NOWHERE ... period

Posts like these make me want to give up and just not even bother with this community anymore.

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-26 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmuerte (Post 354773)
no, that's not correct.

What is not correct?

I reason like this: If I am painting my house, then my house has been painted. If someone has been hacking (reverse engineering) the LBA1 engine, it has been hacked

Quetch 2008-06-26 09:05

DJ: maybe you should then ... all I said was that you guys can make something spectacular IF you look in the right direction ... if you've misread or misinterpreted, it ain't my fault

AlexFont: how about working with an engine like Conitec or BlitzBasic ??? Conitec can do wonders if you know C# and C (or C++) I say this cause they are not SDKs, but completetely featured engines ... all u have to do is provide the material, write some scripts, assemble them and voilla :D

LBAWinOwns: you are partially right and el is also partially right ... yes, the LBA1 engine IS HACKED, yet this is not where things stop ... hacking the engine allowed a reimplementation of the engine somewhere further along the way so bottom line: the engine was hacked in order to be reimplemented ...

xesf 2008-06-26 15:19

Engine like Conitec Game Studio en BlitzBasic would require too a lot of effort to understand how it works and how we can design such engine there. Also we can gain in some aspetcs using this but we'll loose almost everything we are working on and will be even horse of making what we are doing.

I think we can learn a lot what we're doing now, and all the aspects bad or good could allow us to improve this game or another game in a another step. From what we have so far, we indeed have content to build a independent LBA like game, but as I said, it would require things we don't have and can't do it now.

Maybe when we finish this game we can make a better version with the same story with a new an independent engine.

---

No one hacked LBA1 engine to build a reimplementation. Its simply an understanding of Assembly code which is coded in another language.
An hacked version of LBA1 engine will be something to uses exactly the same file you hacked, like a no cd check or something.

---

Back on topic, every single help is welcome.

Double-J 2008-06-26 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetch (Post 354798)
DJ: maybe you should then ... all I said was that you guys can make something spectacular IF you look in the right direction ... if you've misread or misinterpreted, it ain't my fault

No, you said that this project is never going to amount to anything and we should just quit now and change our entire mode.

For someone who is so graciously showing us the light, you sure have done...nothing...to help. Thanks for your contribution!

Double-J 2008-06-26 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexfont (Post 354841)

Back on topic, every single help is welcome.

Yes, HELP is welcome. Detractors can shut the fuck up.

Quetch 2008-06-26 16:24

excuse me, DJ, but I've offered myself countless times to help with voiceacting, modeling, animating, texturing (if you can implelemts this), etc. BUT the nastiest thing is that my help would only be VISIBLE once the game itself would become even a bit VISIBLE ... so yes, detractors will shut up and follow the light, even if it comes from a candle or a lighter ;) at least it's light

Double-J 2008-06-26 16:56

Would you like to take over the project? I'm dead serious. Maybe you have all the answers?

Quetch 2008-06-26 17:08

I do not want to take over the project cause I'd direct all team members to let go of the current direction and make the game using a pre-made engine :) so in this situation, it's better for you guys to be in charge as long as you'll give us something to taste instead of reading

xesf 2008-06-26 17:32

OK guys lets calm down.

We know we dont have too many visible work, but we have a lot of non-visible one. I hope this summer we can do something more playable. We should manage this when a new version of LBArchitect be out.

Quetch 2008-06-26 17:38

the moment you can import models, just tell me ;)

xesf 2008-06-26 17:42

Will be difficult to have such feature.

Quetch 2008-06-26 17:55

so u can't use other models than the existent ones ? :(

LBAWinOwns 2008-06-26 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexfont (Post 354866)
Will be difficult to have such feature.

Why? Ain't it worth it to fix a model up loader. Now artists are forced having to write down space coordinates instead of making models in the programs of their choice.


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