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Polaris 2021-01-11 14:25

The things that I am missing on these forums x)

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-16 14:50

Particularly interesting bits at around 9:40 for anyone who cares


also


Polaris 2021-01-17 16:29

I really have trouble following your train of thought... After weeks of us chatting about this, I thought your stance was that while the virus exists, it is not half as dangerous as governments would have us believed, and is instrumentalised to strip us of basic human rights, you now share a video of a doctor urging the government to do something, because this virus is out of control and hospitals can't keep up the pace...
Or, are you showing us the second video because the guy is supposedly speaking nonsense and contradicting the woman in your first one ?

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-18 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459656)
I really have trouble following your train of thought... After weeks of us chatting about this, I thought your stance was that while the virus exists, it is not half as dangerous as governments would have us believed, and is instrumentalised to strip us of basic human rights,

The above view is correct; the doctor is not urging the use of the medicine because hospitals are out of control, but because our lifes and the economy is out of control, he urges it because it is the right and best medicine to deal with it, instead of ventilators and all that BS, this is the most effective pre-treatment at first signs of symptoms, so we can just treat it like any other disease mankind had to face so far and get on with our lifes (ie: no lockdowns or masks are needed).

Polaris 2021-01-18 11:34

:hmpf:

5:47
Quote:

They profilacsed 800 health-care workers, not one got sick
How would this be relevent, if hospitals were empty ?

7:27
Quote:

We have 100 000 patients in the hospital right now dying
He says "hospital", singular. That's 100 000 people not only hospitalized for COVID, but dying of it in only one hospital.

7:32
Quote:

I've cared for more dying COVID patients than anyone can imagine.
7:48
Quote:

And I watch them every day, they die.
7:58
Quote:

We need to offload the hospitals, we are tired, I can't keep doing this.
Here, he says "hospitals", plural, meaning others are in the same case.

So here you are, sharing a video of a doctor who claims that he has a cure for the sickness that is causing hundreds of people to die apparently at least each week in his hospital only, and states that other hospitals are in this case.
He also refers to trials in Argentina (that's where they tested this medicine on health-care workers), so this is, according to him, not happening only in the US...
And you've told me, that we cannot agree with some of what we're being told about this whole thing, either we believe the whole thing is a hoax, or everything we are being told is true. So, according to you, what this doctor talks about cannot be an exception. Either he is telling the truth, and there is a sickness causing hundred thousands of deaths, or he is full of sh*t...

...

I'm sorry to be the one telling you this, but there are problems in your thought process... Mainly, you are inverting cause and consequence. You start from the belief that we are being lied to, then look for elements that can corroborate that, whereas the correct process is to gather evidence, analyse what you have, emit hypothesis, and lastly verify it. Once you have enough hypothesizes that turn out to be false, you end up with a model that isn't contradicting any of your elements and consequently, offers coherent explanations to what you are looking into.

It's a long process, and even then, you don't end up with "truth", you can only end up with the best explanation, which you have to then revise everytime new data comes in.

...
:?

johnnybrubacker 2021-01-18 12:04

I'm reporting around 20 covid chest x-rays a day. My best friends parents were hospitalised due to covid recently. I think I'll believe my own experiences :)

Neko 2021-01-18 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybrubacker (Post 459663)
I'm reporting around 20 covid chest x-rays a day. My best friends parents were hospitalised due to covid recently. I think I'll believe my own experiences :)

and what do you see on the x rays?

Neko 2021-01-18 14:17

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212915.shtml

I think I prefer a vaccine with oldschool tech to be honest

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-18 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459662)
:hmpf:

5:47

How would this be relevent, if hospitals were empty ?

7:27

He says "hospital", singular. That's 100 000 people not only hospitalized for COVID, but dying of it in only one hospital.

7:32


7:48


7:58

Here, he says "hospitals", plural, meaning others are in the same case.

So here you are, sharing a video of a doctor who claims that he has a cure for the sickness that is causing hundreds of people to die apparently at least each week in his hospital only, and states that other hospitals are in this case.
He also refers to trials in Argentina (that's where they tested this medicine on health-care workers), so this is, according to him, not happening only in the US...
And you've told me, that we cannot agree with some of what we're being told about this whole thing, either we believe the whole thing is a hoax, or everything we are being told is true. So, according to you, what this doctor talks about cannot be an exception. Either he is telling the truth, and there is a sickness causing hundred thousands of deaths, or he is full of sh*t...

...

I'm sorry to be the one telling you this, but there are problems in your thought process... Mainly, you are inverting cause and consequence. You start from the belief that we are being lied to, then look for elements that can corroborate that, whereas the correct process is to gather evidence, analyse what you have, emit hypothesis, and lastly verify it. Once you have enough hypothesizes that turn out to be false, you end up with a model that isn't contradicting any of your elements and consequently, offers coherent explanations to what you are looking into.

It's a long process, and even then, you don't end up with "truth", you can only end up with the best explanation, which you have to then revise everytime new data comes in.

...
:?

You are absolutely right about the thought process, to analyse and compare one source of info to another; but what you're missing here is that this situation (rising number of cases, filled up hospitals, etc) just came to be due to the lack of using this recommended medicine from the start, which is what he's urging for to be even considered. What this means is that this could've perhaps fixed the entire situation from the start before hospitals were filled; please notice, I never said "all hospitals are empty and people are just fine" anywhere, read my post again, I said I agreed with you on the following statement about me: "I thought your stance was that while the virus exists, it is not half as dangerous as governments would have us believed, and is instrumentalised to strip us of basic human rights", so while hospitals may be out of control, what is even more important are the human rights together with the fact that we could have it in control with the use of this medicine. It's really not hard to understand, and it does not contradict at all.

There are so many factors to consider too as to this "out of control" situation, as shown in the nurse's video above, people are sent or kept in hospitals without the need for it; false positives are gathered together with the positives, and then become really positive (did you watch that? it's been whistleblown by the nurses). One of the nurses even reports how most doctors are deliberately giving wrong treatment to people. So, the truth is complex, even the "full hospitals" aren't truly a sign that it means hospitals are racked up full of severe cases of a deadly disease, most had little or few symptoms to start with but due to the result of fear mongering propaganda causing panic by a relestless, non-stop media, everywhere, 24h, they go there and also due to people who are not taking care of themselves in the way they should've to prevent that from the beginning ("better to be safe than sorry" is it not). If TV and internet didn't exist, how much would you really know of or be concerned about the virus? would you even see it happening, at all? would there even be an pandemic? I am not saying people are not dying, but most deaths are also due to other co-morbidities or people who already had compromised immune systems to start with, and I am not saying people are not infected, but many are simply false positives that goes to rank up the count, while the huge majority shows no symptoms, so things really aren't so simple as 2+2. This doctor is speaking in front of the TV to the national senate, and he may have reasons to ommit certain things to emphasis one important narrative (the one that can save lives of those who are actually ill and reduce the panic of those who are fine) instead of saying everything he'd be willing to say, to a friend in a private conversation for example. It's completely different things, and you need to take this into account.

Which is why this statement is just wrong: "either we believe the whole thing is a hoax, or everything we are being told is true" because that only works for beliving what you are being told (official information), however once you start seeing the leaks which show it to be a hoax (the other side of information), then, it's huge rabbit hole, there are several shades of gray areas because even some of those who leak information have their own second intentions/political agendas they wish to promote, or some won't say everything they wish to say to protect their own lifes, careers and family, or some will tell you only some aspect but not the other, and finally there are those who do expose everything but die 'mysteriously' or are arrested and you never hear from them again - and while that would make them martys, it does not happen because their accounts are thrown into oblivion, ignored by a skeptic population. So it is not easy like that, the truth is not black & white, a linear path, unfortunately, and most definitely it does not have an easy path to reach us in its full spectrum (I haven't even entered into the big tech censorship that's going on and how free speech is increasingly difficult). Thus why I encourage everyone to simply start questioning, and I find it valuable the views of those who do come forward to question. You and yourself alone is the only one responsible for putting the jigsaw puzzle into place.

johnnybrubacker 2021-01-18 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neko (Post 459666)
and what do you see on the x rays?

https://pubs.rsna.org/cms/10.1148/ra...0490.fig3.jpeg

This - bilateral airspace opacification on chest x-ray. This is covid pneumonitis. These patients will also have the positive PCR test. .

https://prod-images-static.radiopaed...564a_jumbo.jpg

Normal cxr for comparison

Neko 2021-01-18 21:37

so...what does that mean? permanent damage?

DedalousDiggle 2021-01-19 02:48

I’m going to believe the personal stories of my friends and family working in healthcare rather than the accounts of these people I don’t know.

My mom is the executive director of her facility. Am I to believe that she’s either an idiot or complicit in murder?

I can tell you that in her rural town some of her employees (nursing assistants generally) are absolute idiots. They believe whatever right wing media tells them and some of them at even refusing to take the vaccine out of fear of vaguely defined “government control”. These are bumpkins who have never left their hometown and get all their news from their likeminded friends on Facebook and their YouTube recommendations. This summer they believed that the big liberal city I live in was burnt to the ground by antifa. These are the kind of people making the videos you consume. Not everyone who wears scrubs is equally qualified.

You claim to be a free thinker but you sound exactly like the rest of them. The main thing you have in common is that you don’t know what’s going on but you are absolutely certain we’re wrong. It’s obviously not the case that you have to either believe everything the media tells you or believe it’s all fake, but your various sources can’t agree on whether it’s a virus manufactured by the Chinese, a naturally occurring virus that is giving doctors the opportunity to murder their patients for the new world order, or if it’s not a virus at all because viruses don’t exist. You don’t believe in anything other than “they’re out to get us “.

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-19 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DedalousDiggle (Post 459685)
(...) you sound exactly like the rest of them. The main thing you have in common is that you don’t know what’s going on (...)

Exactly. Exactly. At least we are humble enough to admit to ourselves we do not know the 'entire-truth-about-everything'; instead of shutting ourselves out from giving our ears to any voice that is dissonant from the narrative just because it's uncomfortable. What we are doing is give questioning to the voices that are coming out. Voices are coming out everywhere, whistleblowing and reporting, often under risks of life, prison, their careers, family and censorship, and at the very least we are giving them the time to be heard and taken seriously without an infatuated sense of righteousness, because if they exist, then something is going on. To think that all these people are simply lunatics and comfort yourself with that childlike explanation is an even more ludicrous conspiracy theory than any actual conspiracy theory.

So I'll leave it at that. I think this thread is going to age well, like the brilliant thread Swine Flu did, now, 10 years later.

:)

So I'll see you in 10 years! That is, if we're still around, after the 4th Industrial Revolution, the Great Reset and the Artificial Intelligence takes over...

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459695)
... Just promise me you won't die getting shot while trying to storm a governmental building

Thanks for your concern polly, but don't worry I am far more into a Ghandi approach. I am not a Trump supporter, or anything like that. I am apolitical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459695)
but really, I'm just worried about you :(

.. the reasons why I argue with strangers on this forum is because I am worried about y'all too. My dream is that we all stop finding reasons to divide ideologically, and rather stick to the reasons that unite us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459695)
:lol: Quite to the decade ahead of us |)

So much so that I am replying you from a post in the past. :proud2:

Polaris 2021-01-19 23:20

... Just promise me you won't die getting shot while trying to storm a governmental building, thinking you're saving lives...
This may sound like I'm making fun of you, (okay, maybe I am a little bit,) but really, I'm just worried about you :(

Also,
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 459688)
So I'll see you in 10 years! That is, if we're still around, after the 4th Industrial Revolution, the Great Reset and the Artificial Intelligence takes over...

:lol: Quite to the decade ahead of us |)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 459688)
So much so that I am replying you from a post in the past. :proud2:

Whoa :eek:

Reek 2021-01-20 22:44

well SGK i suppose it was always just a matter of time but you've finally lost your damn mind.

Polaris 2021-01-20 23:08

Eyyyy, Reek's in the house !

DedalousDiggle 2021-01-26 02:56

I suppose statistically speaking it was bound to happen to one of us at this point.

Polaris 2021-01-27 03:49

Happened to Battler years ago :D

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-27 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reek (Post 459712)
well SGK i suppose it was always just a matter of time but you've finally lost your damn mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DedalousDiggle (Post 459754)
I suppose statistically speaking it was bound to happen to one of us at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459779)
Happened to Battler years ago :D

Oh great, now I am being called a mad man/insane/crazy/whatnot. Gonna add that to my list of insults. *yawn*

Polaris 2021-01-27 18:14

Come on, it's affectionate man, you know we love you ! |)

But you do believe in strange things...

Lupin 2021-01-27 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 459785)
Oh great, now I am being called a mad man/insane/crazy/whatnot. Gonna add that to my list of insults. *yawn*

I want to make it clear that I don't condone the insults (although some of the stuff on your list seem to be targeted at the ideas, not the person), but I have to point out that some of the initial stuff you shared here were quite insulting by themselves, and you've been implying all along that we're all just sheeps.
Also, I perceive your attitude towards this crisis to be insulting to those who died or suffered a lot from the virus, and a bunch of us have friends and relatives who've been affected, so I don't think the strong reactions you see here have much to do with you as a person, but rather it's about the views you defend, and the way you defend them.

Polaris 2021-01-27 18:35

Frankly SGK, I'm just worried about you...

In the few months I've been chatting with you, I saw your view shift again and again on this matter to accommodate what would be a problem, without you even realizing it (the virus doesn't exist - the virus exists, but is dangerless - the virus was created - ten thousands are dying from the virus, but only others infect them on purpose)...

You keep referring to your stance as "wake" without ever considering that other point of views are the results of a thought process as well, and not something taken at face value.

Your eagerness to prove to, or convince others at all costs seems to indicate that this is some personal issue you have with the situation, and it seems corroborated with what you say about Wars and the Truth. You're knee-deep in this thing not by logic, bu belief, and are ready to stay in regardless of what you are shown. Whatever anyone says or presents you apparently only proves you're right. Heck, you yourself said, there would be absolutely no way to make you consider this as a genuine pandemic :?

I'm not saying this to harm you or piss you off, I am genuinely worried, and hope the day someone decides to cash in on your beliefs, you will not pay.

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-27 20:05

Nah, don't worry about me. ;)

As for:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459792)
In the few months I've been chatting with you, I saw your view shift again and again on this matter to accommodate what would be a problem, without you even realizing it

I am going to have to repeat myself:

"Exactly. Exactly. At least we are humble enough to admit to ourselves we do not know the 'entire-truth-about-everything'; instead of shutting ourselves out from giving our ears to any voice that is dissonant from the narrative just because it's uncomfortable. What we are doing is give questioning to the voices that are coming out. Voices are coming out everywhere, whistleblowing and reporting, often under risks of life, prison, their careers, family and censorship, and at the very least we are giving them the time to be heard and taken seriously without an infatuated sense of righteousness, because if they exist, then something is going on. To think that all these people are simply lunatics and comfort yourself with that childlike explanation is an even more ludicrous conspiracy theory than any actual conspiracy theory."

Reek 2021-01-27 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 459796)
Nah, don't worry about me. ;)

As for:



I am going to have to repeat myself:

"Exactly. Exactly. At least we are humble enough to admit to ourselves we do not know the 'entire-truth-about-everything'; instead of shutting ourselves out from giving our ears to any voice that is dissonant from the narrative just because it's uncomfortable. What we are doing is give questioning to the voices that are coming out. Voices are coming out everywhere, whistleblowing and reporting, often under risks of life, prison, their careers, family and censorship, and at the very least we are giving them the time to be heard and taken seriously without an infatuated sense of righteousness, because if they exist, then something is going on. To think that all these people are simply lunatics and comfort yourself with that childlike explanation is an even more ludicrous conspiracy theory than any actual conspiracy theory."

so you're basically admitting that all your previous takes on corona were complete bullshit and that you were just talking out of your ass, but it's ok because apparently being "awake" means changing opinions as frequently as you change socks.

that's great for you and everything but it just makes it seem like discussing anything with you is a waste of time? i mean obviously you've failed at offering anything remotely informative to the table, as you implicitly admit by abandoning every claim you make a few days later once you realize it's nonsense

SpaceGuitarist 2021-01-27 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reek (Post 459800)
so you're basically admitting that all your previous takes on corona were complete bullshit and that you were just talking out of your ass, but it's ok because apparently being "awake" means changing opinions as frequently as you change socks.

that's great for you and everything but it just makes it seem like discussing anything with you is a waste of time? i mean obviously you've failed at offering anything remotely informative to the table, as you implicitly admit by abandoning every claim you make a few days later once you realize it's nonsense

No no no. Not at all. We're not talking of a full shift of opinion, just going deeper into new truths as we slowly unveal its protective layers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 459792)
Frankly SGK, I'm just worried about you...

In the few months I've been chatting with you, I saw your view shift again and again on this matter to accommodate what would be a problem, without you even realizing it (the virus doesn't exist - the virus exists, but is dangerless - the virus was created - ten thousands are dying from the virus, but only others infect them on purpose)...

You keep referring to your stance as "wake" without ever considering that other point of views are the results of a thought process as well, and not something taken at face value.

Your eagerness to prove to, or convince others at all costs seems to indicate that this is some personal issue you have with the situation, and it seems corroborated with what you say about Wars and the Truth. You're knee-deep in this thing not by logic, bu belief, and are ready to stay in regardless of what you are shown. Whatever anyone says or presents you apparently only proves you're right. Heck, you yourself said, there would be absolutely no way to make you consider this as a genuine pandemic :?

I'm not saying this to harm you or piss you off, I am genuinely worried, and hope the day someone decides to cash in on your beliefs, you will not pay.

This post is very misleading because, you never get what I try to explain to you polly. I say A you understand B. I send links, evidences, lots of stuff - all of that is ignored. That happened with Lupin as well. It's pretty much a waste of time gathering evidences when it would not matter if 1 or 100 or 1000 are shown, since nobody is honestly receptive from the start. If your brain is triggered to receive an idea already thinking ahead how to debunk it, it is not an honest exchange of ideas. As it turns out, I must've said for polly to "drop it" "forget it" "let it be" etc at least a dozen times in private chats. So he didnt really get what was being said and honestly it just becomes very tiring - who likes to argue? Nobody, of course. Plus reek's post above pretty much proves my point of being a waste of time, because you're all very eager to reply and ridicule, but not so keen as to hear what I am presenting/advocating for, at all, except for a very vague superficial notion. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes patience to understand -- all of which neither of you have or are willing to do because it's already preconceived as "bullshit from a conspiracy theorist who spews crazy horseshit" or whatever ideas you guys have of me for my undeniable right to question things and hear witnesses. It is fine not having time to digest things for which you feel incredulous for and consider that you should occupy your mind with better things. What is not fine, however, is to piss on the ideas without even getting its grasp completely. But I am not alone. More will come. Maybe not here in these forums, but in your daily lifes.


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