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Lightwing 2002-11-17 23:56

An article
 
This is a rather messed up and disturbing story I discovered it in one of the article websites. When first reading it, I thought that the point of the passage was not very appealing. It was however, when I got to the end that my attention was grabbed. I'm not posting this article for you to feel sorry for the person, or to turn you on, but I did sense a sort of message comming through and so thought that perhaps it could be shared with others. Read it and if you feel the need, express your opinion about it.

Story

Double-J 2002-11-18 00:51

Shite....wtf was a 13 year old girl doing at a party like that? Seriously, I hadn't been to anything remotely like that until 15 years old, and they were simple make-out parties, not "orgys".

I feel sorry on one hand, for her baby, and I feel sorry that she was so young and lost her innocence, but I don't feel sorry because she was stupid, because 1.) In today's modern society 13 year olds should not be getting drunk and at parties like that and 2.) She knew what could happen, she even joked about sex before the party started. And rape is a terrible crime, but imho, the abortion would have been just as much if not a worse crime.

I hope that at the very least people learn from this, don't get involved with sex until you actually understand what sex is, and your old enough to make competant decisions. And don't drink until your of age, because this is what happens.

Evil-Twinsen 2002-11-18 00:56

*Ignoring some rape-justifying comments made by Double-J*

All I can say is that this is really really sad... The rest is kinda obvious.

However, I'm not too sure if this is a true story... The ending - "and THEN I got HIV. Take care!" - was a bit too synthetic, I think...

Double-J 2002-11-18 00:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil-Twinsen
*Ignoring some rape-justifying comments made by Double-J*


I'm not justifying the horrible crime of rape...

I'm just saying that by getting drunk and attending the party she alone put herself in that situation, even if it hadn't happened, what she was doing was ignorant.

Lightwing 2002-11-18 01:12

Well, its interesting because the owners of the website mentioned as well that the four guys crowding around her was an indication of rape (read one of the last paragraphs from the commentary sections beneath). I read many stories from that website, and what I disagree with most of what the owners say, is that they give the victims and sexual intercourse allthogether, too much credit. I disagree with them when they say that it was not the girls fault. She, out of all the people made and accepted that choice. Being 13, is actually, an age mature enough to make you realise your own actions.

Well, I myself considered the realism of this story, and I do believe it to be true. But even if it is not, I still think that much can be learned from it.

P.S. I don't understand why they didn't file an abortion against the child. Consequently, it would be bound to die since the mother carrying HIV also passes the virus to her child. The baby dies either way.

Double-J 2002-11-18 01:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightwing
Well, its interesting because the owners of the website mentioned as well that the four guys crowding around her was an indication of rape (read one of the last paragraphs from the commentary sections beneath). I read many stories from that website, and what I disagree with most of what the owners say, is that they give the victims and sexual intercourse allthogether, too much credit. I disagree with them when they say that it was not the girls fault. She, out of all the people made and accepted that choice. Being 13, is actually, an age mature enough to make you realise your own actions.

Well, I myself considered the realism of this story, and I do believe it to be true. But even if it is not, I still think that much can be learned from it.

P.S. I don't understand why they didn't file an abortion against the child. Consequently, it would be bound to die since the mother carrying HIV also passes the virus to her child. The baby dies either way.

Hmz...as you can see from my previous posts, I agree with Lighty.

Unless I am wrong, and I should know (me bashes head), I don't believe that it is 100% guaranteed for the baby to be HIV positive...I really should know....bah, I'll look it up. :D

Lightwing 2002-11-18 02:45

Well, during fertilization development, the mother nurishes the child with various nutriets and substances from her body. HIV goes into just about any fluid in your body. I think the rest is common sense.

Double-J 2002-11-18 03:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightwing
Well, during fertilization development, the mother nurishes the child with various nutriets and substances from her body. HIV goes into just about any fluid in your body. I think the rest is common sense.
I know that...I just vaguely remember one of my Anatomy teachers saying something that its not 100% definate whether the child has HIV...

Lightwing 2002-11-18 03:34

Well, technically, its not 100% garantee that you will get STD from an HIV carier when you sleep with her, either.

Reek 2002-11-18 06:51

Man...that's so sad.
However the girl was reckless and foolish.
That's what people get, when they act like whores.

What really disgusts me are those 3-4 boys, how can people be so evil?

Atresica 2002-11-18 21:09

finding abortion a worse crime than rape? Let's see how you would respond to rape...

Further more, there is a chance of about 25% that the baby won't be infected, also, there is a chance that this girl won't die young anyway, AIDS can wait for several years, but this doesn't make the situation any less worse.

D`Sparil 2002-11-18 21:17

What's funny to me is that 2 or 3 other guys just appeared on the scene all of a sudden. Where were they hiding? The closet? Well... whatever. It's a pretty sad story. She certainly gives you a play-by-play on it, though. And judging by the amount of booze she said she had, I'm surprised she didn't pass out earlier or something.

wacko 2002-11-18 21:19

Horrible. I recently read an article containing some stats, it appears that girls in Holland doing (how you call it) one of the lowest school difficulty levels averagely lose their virginity around their 13th...

While this story isn't very believable at some points, it's true that things like this happen all the time.

Twinsal 2002-11-18 21:39

I think it's for 60% the girls own fault. Those guys were wrong too, but she herself had chosen to get in a position were things like this could happen and she knew that.
I don't understand why her parents don't let her have an abortion.

Firephoenix 2002-11-18 22:13

She commited a big fault by not realizing what had 90% chances to happen to her in a such place and drunk. I dont know how people can still be so naive with all what we see on TV and in the papers....she isnt inocent in that story, the simple fact of taking sexy clothes gives you a part of responsibility in the fault (nothing more is needed to boost the basic instincts of some crazy guys).
That story can be true or false, that has no importance, cause anyway such cases really exist, and qite often furthermore, and sometimes even worse.
But if the girl was stupid, the boys were 100* worse, raping like that together an unconscious girl is one of the worst things I know.

Anway, I find that that story avoided the worst.

Quote:

P.S. I don't understand why they didn't file an abortion against the child. Consequently, it would be bound to die since the mother carrying HIV also passes the virus to her child. The baby dies either way.
:rolleyes: super
Dont you realize that everyone on that planet is bound to die ? And so, like that, as long as someone would live less time than others, we should kill them ? That's a quite pretty philosophy. And we should also kill handicapped people and mads, since they can less plainly live than others, and die more quickly (btw - I wouldnt live for long in a such world) .
The death of the child wouldnt have made here win anything. Only the remorse to have killed her child (even the extrem feminists that aborted regret later their act). Whereas there, at least, her child lived for a time, and it didnt even "sacrificed" here life cause she put it in adoption. I bless the parents for their spirit-presence in the distress. You cant repair a rape by adding a murder.

Atresica - well that's a hard question, but if you consider all, the girl had a good part of responsibility in what happend to her. The child didnt ask anything, didnt make anything, and appeared from the emptiness, killing him would have been less unfair again, nothing is more innocent than a 2 months child (yeah, a 1 month one, I know :D).

Lightwing 2002-11-19 02:14

It usually takes about 15 years for AIDS to appear, but because it said that she was tested with HIV this early, I got the feeling the virus would spread very quickly.

Firephoenix, you know how HIV works? You studied it right? It doesn't actually kill you, it just destroys your white blood cells (T-cells). The sicknesses that people die of as a result of HIV are very very gruesome. I side with you on letting a person live for a short period of time over not living at all, but its the type of death that makes me consider.

I do not really care much if the story is false or not, but the girl did mention in the beggining that there was hell of a lot of people there. Besides, we don't know much anyway. And nontheless, it shouldn't matter, because lik FP said, this stuff happens very often.

Wacko: I find it believable in a place like the Netherlands where education can display parts of character, but here in USA, the most likely people to have sex at an early age and attend inappropriate parties would be wealthy, spoiled kids that attend private schools. You also won't believe some of the other uncomfortable facts I discovered during the modern Holland (mid 70s).

Reek 2002-11-19 06:47

The dumbest thing is that her parent won't let her abort (is that how you say it? :p)

Giving birth at the tender age of 14 endangers the life of both the mother and the baby, and i suppose IT REALLY HURTS.

Her folks are probably religious, proving once again how stupid reliegion is.

Double-J 2002-11-19 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Anakin
The dumbest thing is that her parent won't let her abort (is that how you say it? :p)

Giving birth at the tender age of 14 endangers the life of both the mother and the baby, and i suppose IT REALLY HURTS.

Her folks are probably religious, proving once again how stupid reliegion is.

1.) boo! murder I say. IMHO of course. :eek:

2.) I think it hurts no matter what age you are. :rolleyes:

3.) :stupid:

Darkflame 2002-11-19 16:10

err...14 is perfectly fine age for the human body to give birth.
The danger is only a tiny tiny bit worse.
Besides with abortion you 100% certain kill the child, so its a logical discision, religion dosn't have to have anything to do with it.

Atresica 2002-11-19 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Firephoenix
Atresica - well that's a hard question, but if you consider all, the girl had a good part of responsibility in what happend to her. The child didnt ask anything, didnt make anything, and appeared from the emptiness, killing him would have been less unfair again, nothing is more innocent than a 2 months child (yeah, a 1 month one, I know :D).

That's not really the point, I was more furious towards the statement that abortion is worse than rape

Lightwing, make no mistake, the NL isn't that way anymore -_-

Darkflame 2002-11-19 20:35

err...actualy rape just hurts someone bad.
Abortion kills.
So as idividual acts, Id say abortion is worse.
Its more complex of course, seeing as most rapes result in an abortion, or the child being brought up in very poor conditions.
And thats without even mentioning decease (serial rapers in perticular are likely to carry bad decease's)

Firephoenix 2002-11-19 20:38

Lightwing - well hell is paved with good intentions :p
There are lots of deaths that are far more horrible (losing your memory, your mind, or your members one by one), but in anycase poor life is better than death, and cause our lives arent legitimately possessed by ourselves, we dont have the right to decide of our end (suicide) or worst to decide of others' ends (murder).
You know, with the medicine's progress, "endangering the mother's life" is mots of time a fake argument nowadays in the "wealthy" countries.
Quote:

Originally posted by Darkflame
Besides with abortion you 100% certain kill the child, so its a logical discision, religion dosn't have to have anything to do with it.
Exactly, even the pure non-believer has to reach that conclusion by weighing up the pros and cons :cool

Atresica - well a rape is a very hard pain, but can slowly heal with the time, the victim isnt sure of dying or being down for the rest of her life. Death cant be repaired in any way.
I've never (as everyone here imo) been in front of the case, but having the choice, I'd surely prefer the rape to the death (after reflexion of course, on the moment your main will is to die asap).

Atresica 2002-11-19 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkflame
err...actualy rape just hurts someone bad.
Abortion kills.

That's a very very objective way to talk about it

I suggest you ask someone who IS raped, than tell me if you still think about that

Darkflame 2002-11-19 20:47

I surgest you ask someone who IS killed :rolleyes:

Reek 2002-11-19 20:48

I do not think abortion is murder.

What's so good about letting a baby live, if you condemn the baby and it's mother to a lifetime of suffering?

Besides, I don't think the fedus minds being killed, it's just a ball of meat.


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