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J McKalling 2011-09-28 12:13

LBA Challenge Thread
 
More challenges.
Recently I've been busy on testing on new ideas I came across my latest run, and I've found multiple other challenges. These I completed and proved, but aren't listed yet:

* Get the SpaceSuit in the main building on Emerald Moon (easy, medium)
* Get on top of the reactor on Emerald Moon (medium, medium)
* Complete the game without wearing any tunic, as opposed to wearing the Wizard's parade tunic (easy, long)

The following I mostly made up myself, but haven't proven to be possible yet:
* Get the SpaceSuit off Emerald Moon
* Use the shuttle on Twinsun to get to the Moon and Zeelich in the reversed trip order: the Esmer base trip before the Hacienda one
* Clear the storm after you get back from Zeelich & Emerald Moon
* Complete the game without any items in your inventory (very likely to be impossible)
* Complete the game by getting your red magic level before you get the green one
*Complete the game without getting your red magic level

Darkflame 2011-09-28 13:09

oh, nice ones.

We need somewhere to put the list though... :p
We talked about a voting/submission thing above, maybe we could set that up?

J McKalling 2011-09-28 13:36

I'd say, for the time being, lets maintain it in this thread.. :D
If we want to vote, someone can create a poll, or instead, someone could maintain a "supporterslist", in which everyone who's completed a particular challenge could apply for.

There's a lot I could make up right now for more challenges, but let's not run wild yet and stick with these for a while. See how it goes.

J McKalling 2011-09-28 17:53

As a matter of gameplay after finish, I really like challenges. I still play LBA2 today.
It's still my #1 game and I like to dig into unexplored territories to find new things to do with it. I only like the challenges because I already finished the game so many times. They simply add to what you already know about it's universe and are fun to discover.

Because I like it so much, here is the Challenges list so far. Those that are confirmed are listed first and green and those that are highly likely to be impossible, are red (I made up all the blue ones :)).

-Wizard challenge [easy, long]; finish the game with your Wizard's parade tunic
-NoTunic Challenge [easy, long]: finish the game while wearing the normal clothes you start the game with
-ForeignWeapon Challenge [easy, long]; get the Pisto lazer of Zarnon on Twinsun and finish the game
-Hacienda Challenge [medium, short]: get to and from the Island across the Hacienda without using transport of any kind
-SpaceSuit Challenge [easy, medium]: get the SpaceSuit in the main building on Emerald Moon
-Reactor Challenge [medium, medium]: get on top of the reactor on Emerald Moon and view the complete camp with satelite dish
-Lunar Challenge [easy, medium]: get outside on the Emerald Moon without wearing the SpaceSuit (you'll survive, believe me!)
-RainyDome Challenge [easy, short]: complete the Dome of the Slate maze while it is still raining
-ZoéDome Challenge [easy, medium]: complete the Dome of the Slate maze while being accompanied with Zoé (prevents you finishing the game though)

-Statue Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to get into the statue when it is not triggered yet
-NoWeapon Challenge [unconfirmed]: prove the Statue Challenge and try to finish the game without weapons
-NoItems Challenge [unconformed]: prove the NoWeapon Challenge and try to finish the game without any items in your inventory
-RedB4Green Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to finish the game by reaching your green magic level after you already reached the red level
-NoRed Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to finish the game without reaching red magic level at all
-FireOnly Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to finish the game without reaching yellow, green or red magic levels
-NoMagic Challenge [unconfirmed]: prove the Statue Challenge and try to finish the game without reaching any magic level at all
-ReverseTrip Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to finish the game by going on a spacetrip from the esmer base (and get back) before you go on the trip from the Hacienda
-ZeelichB4Storm Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to clear the storm only after you get back from Zeelich AND Emerald Moon
-ForeignSword Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to do the ForeignWeapon Challenge with the sword instead
-FullSpaceSuit Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to get off the moon and out of the shuttle while wearing the SpaceSuit
-ManualCX Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to get to Island CX manually from Otringal after you crash-land (without talking to Rick, Johnny, the souvenir guy on Celeb. Island or the Mosquebee queen or getting the passage key)
-Overkill Challenge [unconfirmed]: prove the ForeignSword Challenge and try to kill the Tralü with the Emperor's sword.

If you complete a challenge, you need to prove it with a screenshot that exclusively shows you did it, if applyable. Proving unconfirmed challenges doesn't require a full procedure listing, though will be extremely welcome! :) (if you do this accurately for the Statue Challenge, we'll be eternally grateful!)

gabandre 2011-09-29 05:11

how do i make the rainy dome chalange?
when i try to fly whit dino-fly when its rainy and after healing it, it just drops to the ground and does the hurt talk

J McKalling 2011-09-29 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabandre (Post 408031)
how do i make the rainy dome chalange?
when i try to fly whit dino-fly when its rainy and after healing it, it just drops to the ground and does the hurt talk


Lol, it's a challenge, right|)

Maybe I haven't mentioned the use of a still partly unknown bug that you need for that .. :cool:
Point you in the direction of cars and Zoé...}-)

J McKalling 2011-09-29 20:06

2 Attachment(s)
I've made some changes to the ZeelichB4Storm Challenge (but can't edit my list above anymore), as I just found out it might not be possible the way I had originally intended. The original version will now be the unconfirmed "full" version. Secondly, I confirmed the new version!


NEW VERSION:
-ZeelichB4Storm Challenge [hard, medium]: get Zoé to the lighthouse with the purpose of clearing the storm, after you got back from Zeelich (prevents you from leaving the scene because the storm will already be cleared)
-FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge [unconfirmed]: try to finish the game by not clearing the storm, but reaching both green and red levels and taking both trips to Zeelich

Proof I get to walk Zoé to the lighthouse after the crashland from Zeelich:
http://forum.magicball.net/attachmen...1&d=1317315143
To get from here to the lighthouse (crossing all the esmers), while taking hits, wait until Zoé finishes the conversation about the child, and then simply do the Ferry Bug again (press Escape:eek:). I also attached the savegame showing the result.

J McKalling 2011-09-30 15:12

1 Attachment(s)
Wheeehaa, I just CONFIRMED the RedB4Green Challenge!
You can get your wizards diploma with the green magic level after you already got the red magic level, and still finish the game! I've attached the savegame to prove it.

It shows you on franco's island at the key fragment's location. You can see in the inventory here that I have the green ring of lightning, but also sendell's ball (green level overwrote red). If you activate the pickaxe, you immediately jump to fire level and from there you can continue the game as normal (only from this point you can see I had red before green, after you get the keyfragment you won't be able to see that anymore)

BTW, I class this challenge as medium difficulty and long.

Polaris 2011-09-30 16:27

You change to fire immediatly ? How is that possible ?

J McKalling 2011-09-30 16:34

I mean after you activate the pickaxe. At the current position in the savegame, you're standing on the franco's key fragment and already have all other fragments and the emperor's sword. So if you dig now, you immediately reach fire level ;) I chose the franco's key fragmet last because the position was closest to a taxi transport that takes you to celebration island (to fully finish the game)

Polaris 2011-09-30 16:48

Oh, I see, when I play it, th franco's fragment is always the first one I get (when going for the gazogem), that's why I was confused.

J McKalling 2011-09-30 20:48

1 Attachment(s)
The NoRed Challenge is CONFIRMED!
You can easily finish the game without a red magic level. It's almost the same as for the RedB4Green Challenge, except don't get the red magic level before the green level, but don't get it at all. Possibly you'll need som of the tricks introduced by my other challenges too }-)

I classify this also as medium difficulty and long.

The savegame in the attachment proves I could reach the statue and go all the way to the last step before the final cutscene, without ever accuiring sendell's ball with its red magic level (check inventory).

Note: in some of my savegames for these challenges I show that I didn't get the radio. This has nothing to do with the challenges, and was only meant as a shortcut. You can play the entire game without having the radio, and still get called on it. Funny...:D

J McKalling 2011-10-07 13:43

Updated list of challenges
 
2 Attachment(s)
I've tried to run every single challenge myself, and have come up with lots of new info about them. Unfortunately I cannot update the posts anymore, so I'll have to repost the new version.

POSSIBLE challenges:
-BlowgunNoBall Challenge [easy, short, proof]: complete the blowgun test at the school of magic without your magic ball
-NoBall Challenge [medium, long, proof]: finish the game without your magic ball
-Wizard Challenge [easy, long, proof]; finish the game with your Wizard's parade tunic
-NoTunic Challenge [easy, long, proof]: finish the game while wearing the normal clothes you start the game with
-ForeignWeapon Challenge [easy, long, proof]; get the Pisto lazer of Zarnon on Twinsun (and finish the game?)
-Hacienda Challenge [medium, short, need proof]: get to and from the Island across the Hacienda without using transport of any kind
-SpaceSuit Challenge [easy, medium, proof]: get the SpaceSuit in the main building on Emerald Moon
-Reactor Challenge [medium, medium, proof]: get on top of the reactor on Emerald Moon and view the complete camp with satelite dish
-Lunar Challenge [easy, medium, proof]: get outside on the Emerald Moon without wearing the SpaceSuit (you'll survive, believe me!)
-ZoéDome Challenge [easy, medium, proof:attachment1]: complete the Dome of the Slate maze while being accompanied with Zoé (dead-end)
-RainyDome Challenge [easy, short, proof:attachment2]: complete the Dome of the Slate maze while it is still raining
-RedB4Green Challenge [medium, long, proof]: finish the game by reaching your green magic level after you already reached the red level
-NoRed Challenge [medium, long, proof]: finish the game without reaching red magic level at all
-ZeelichB4Storm Challenge [hard, medium, proof]: get Zoé to the lighthouse with the purpose of clearing the storm, after you got back from Zeelich (dead-end)

SO FAR IMPOSSIBLE challenges:
-Statue Challenge [no effective JSB found]: try to get into the statue when it is not triggered yet
-NoWeapon Challenge [dependence]: prove the Statue Challenge and try to finish the game without weapons
-NoItems Challenge [dependence]: prove the NoWeapon Challenge and try to finish the game without any items in your inventory
-FireOnly Challenge [dependence]: prove the Statue Challenge or ManualCX Challenge and try to finish the game without reaching yellow, green or red magic levels
-NoMagic Challenge [dependence]: prove the Statue Challenge and try to finish the game without reaching any magic level at all
-FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge [conflicting triggers]: try to finish the game by not clearing the storm, but reaching both green and red levels and taking both trips to Zeelich
-Palace Challenge [no effective JSB found]: try to get into the palace without the emperor's sword
-ReverseTrip Challenge [conflicting triggers]: try to finish the game by going on a spacetrip from the esmer base (and get back) before you go on the trip from the Hacienda
-ForeignSword Challenge [dependence]: prove the ManualCX Challenge and try to do the ForeignWeapon Challenge with the sword instead
-FullSpaceSuit Challenge [no exit found]: try to get off the moon and out of the shuttle while wearing the SpaceSuit
-ManualCX Challenge [no effective JSB found]: try to get to Island CX manually from Otringal (without crash-landing with Baldino, talking to Rick, Johnny, the souvenir guy on Celeb. Island or the Mosquibee queen or getting the passage key)
-Overkill Challenge [dependence]: prove the ForeignSword Challenge and try to kill the Tralü with the Emperor's sword.

Explanations:
- So far, there's been no proof the Statue Challenge is possible. Someone in the past claimed it was, but no one was able to reproduce it. If you can jump into the invisible entrance of the statue when the statue's not there yet, you'll be able to prove a lot more challenges than one.

- The Palace Challenge is also impossible so far, but would unlock alternative ways of completing other challenges. The palace entrance is blocked by a scene border that is coded to only allow passing through by key (which requires the sword). The JSB has been proven to be ineffective for such a border, as there's no exit mechanism to jump to.

- The FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge is very hard. To take the first trip, you need to finish your wizardry and therefore complete the dome. For that you need to save Raph. After you save him, it is required either to continue to clear the storm for the correct conversation with Dino-fly, or escape the cutscene with Zoé and get rid of her with your car. But the latter will force the cutscene with Zoé again after you crash-land back on Citadel Island. This will replace Dino-fly's destination inquiry by "Have you seen Zoé yet", eventhough she's in your arms, and she doesn't let you get in the house where she's supposed to be. Consequently, you won't be able to leave the island or continue with the story (note that the Weather wizard's not at the lighthouse anymore now that the esmers have taken over). Secondly, avoiding the cutscene with Zoé in the first place, is not possible, as the cutscene is unfortunately triggered by entering any adjacent scene to the one you crash-land on.

- The ReverseTrip Challenge is impossible so far, as no effective continuation is found after a certain point. After you crash-land on Otringal with Baldino, if that is your first visit, there won't be any way to trigger the capture and consequently the assignment of stealing a shuttle (which would be on your visit from the Hacienda trip). The game thinks you're visiting Zeelich for the second time after the crash-land, and either the stealable shuttle will be gone or you won't find Joe the elf in the corridor where you'd normally get captured. Getting hold of an itinerary token from elsewhere is therefore useless. Even if this were somehow possible, the Hacienda trip wont be available after you crash-land back on Twinsun, as the esmer take-over will probably remove the Esmer that invites you to Zeelich, just like the Weather Wizard is in the FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge.

- To be able to get to island CX, you need to follow the chain of events from crash-landing, talking to the souvenir guy, Rick, Johnny Rocket and showing the ring to the Queen of the Mosquibees, and getting her key of passage after she got captured. If you didn't crash-land or if no red magic level is an objective, this chain cannot be followed. For the ManualCX Challenge, it would be a possibility to try to JSB over the still locked secret passage instead and find the isometric scene exit. But this exit/entrance could not be found yet. Another note worthwhile is that while having no magic level at all when you enter Rick's cafe, you'll be automatically warped into red magic level. I haven't found a way of preventing this, other than having a green magic level on beforehand, which you then get to keep. This means that this challenge is required for the FireOnly- and NoMagic Challenges as talking to Rick instead would evitably break their objectives.

- The ForeignSword Challenge and consequently the Overkill Challenge are assumed impossible. Because to get the sword, you need to get to Island CX. And the objective is to be able to take the stolen shuttle trip back to Twinsun, and for that you need to arrive by Hacienda in the first place. This will prevent you from initiating the chain of events explained above about the ManualCX Challenge, as Baldino will not have crashed on Otringal yet, so he can't give you the superjetpack for solving the Money Monkey bug. In short, it means that getting the sword requires you to crash-land on Otringal to begin with, which removes the trigger for taking the stolen shuttle trip to Twinsun.

- The FullSpaceSuit Challenge is also assumed impossible. Suppose you succeeded in getting the spacesuit inside the main building on the moon, you still have to get Baldino to trigger the exit from the moon by his spaceship. That is the only way out. The shuttle you came with is only programmed to go TO the moon and not from. So even if you were able to store a second token, and able to insert it after landing, the shuttle will never leave. Also note that all itinerary tokens are considered by the game as the same object. Entering a room that has a token while already having a token from a different place, will make the game think you already have "it".

- The NoMagic Challenge might be possible by proving the Statue Challenge first, because it will enable to skip the Island CX part (which warps Red magic level at Rick's cafe), but there may be other ways to prove this challenge. For instance, I haven't found out what exactly are the full criteria at which your magic level will automatically be set to red level at Rick's cafe. I think it is having no magic at all, but there could be other criteria too. If having the magic ball is also a criteria, you might not have to skip all that Island CX part and get to the statue regardless.

- If you know how to complete the game with no magic levels except the last one that you get from Dark Monk's key, then please tell me. This is what would make the FireOnly Challenge possible. If not by proving either the Statue Challenge or ManualCX Challenge, by whatever you found.

With these explanations I mean to display all previous findings about these challenges, NOT to claim they are impossible. I hope this helps others in solving them based on what I and others already have found. There is no exclusive proof yet any of these are exactly impossible.

Kobold 2011-10-13 22:39

Quote:

Hacienda Challenge - get to and from the Island across the Hacienda without using transport of any kind
So proto-pack is disqualified? Because it's totally possible with the proto-pack.

J McKalling 2011-10-13 23:01

2 Attachment(s)
Indeed, protopack is not allowed. Not even your car in case you knew a clever way.
It is the only challenge I've yet to find proof that it is possible, though I know I've done it before.

*Edit:
Wait, I'll make proof right now, added as a savegame and screenshot. In the savegame, you're high up in the air immediately dropping down and landing safely on the island. If you open the inventory you'll see I didn't use the protopack (or Dino-fly). I couldn't take a screenshot of the inventory though.

Polaris 2011-10-14 00:48

JSB ? But how ? I remember going there with the proto-pack, there are a bunch of invisible walls.

J McKalling 2011-10-14 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 408709)
JSB ? But how ? I remember going there with the proto-pack, there are a bunch of invisible walls.

...I never encountered any?just go staight from the hacienda to the island, and there you go:D

Kobold 2011-10-14 20:26

To create a screenshot of the inventory, press the "Print" button, then copy the screenshot to an advanced image editing software, and apply LBA2's original pallette to make the screenshot look anything but black. The LBA 2 Pallette is in RESS.HQR, check LBA File Information for details, use a Package Editor to extract it. See here

J McKalling 2011-10-14 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobold (Post 408756)
To create a screenshot of the inventory, press the "Print" button, then copy the screenshot to an advanced image editing software, and apply LBA2's original pallette to make the screenshot look anything but black. The LBA 2 Pallette is in RESS.HQR, check LBA File Information for details, use a Package Editor to extract it. See here

That all seems a little over my head to me :( I only use WinRAR and Irfanview, and neither can open those files. I guess I don't really need to capture my inventory.

Kobold 2011-10-14 20:46

1 Attachment(s)
You need a specific LBA Package Editor, provided in the link. You can use Alexfont's one. Or I could just give you the extracted pallette. :p

Where did I put it...

There!

Sorry to confuse you, LBA modding is a bit difficult without experience / proper introduction to it.

J McKalling 2011-10-14 21:28

Thanks for that, I'm indeed not experienced in modding. However, what do I do next with the pal file? Could you send me a pm about it, we don't need to keep this up here. Thanks for your help.

Freederick 2011-11-03 02:43

LBA 1 challenge
 
So far in the thread there have been only LBA2 challenges---probably because the JSB only works in there. So here is an LBA1 challenge:

No Second Chances---kill Funfrock on top of Polar Island.

I once actually tried that; fought Funfrock for over 4 minutes straight, taking care not to let him fall over the edge. This was my longest of several attempts, but then I'm no pinball wizard. But is killing him there actually possible? :? Note that Funfrock is actually losing hitpoints---there are stars flying when you hit him. So it all depends on whether he actually has infinite hitpoints---something that is inconvenient to code---or merely lots of hitpoints, like 32,767 for instance. In the latter case it should be possible, in principle, to finish him off with patient, careful play.

In principle, it also should be possible to find that out by reverse engineering the code. How hard that is depends on where hitpoints are defined. Are they in the main executable (hard) or one of the various resources (easy)? Has anyone looked?

If it should turn out that the challenge is doable, there is yet another problem involved: does it break the game? Possibly not, as the finale seems to be triggered by Twinsen's passing through the final door, which he should still be able to do.

J McKalling 2011-11-03 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freederick (Post 409970)
So far in the thread there have been only LBA2 challenges...

Yes, it's only about LBA2. I didn't create this thread, so didn't write the title. I've not experienced in LBA, only completed it once. But your challenge is welcome, even if you can't confirm it yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freederick (Post 409970)
...If it should turn out that the challenge is doable, there is yet another problem involved: does it break the game?...

I believe, if LBA is similar in coding as LBA2, that this will not break the game. A gameobject wouldn't actually be shared between mapsections, so if you destroy one in mapsectionA, it would not mirror in mapsectionB and still exist there. It's a simple matter of different instances of the same object in different places.

There should be a way to suspend all these challenges and their explanations somewhere central on the MBN, but we haven't decided on what software solution to use.

Renesans 2011-11-03 10:47

Sorry, the challenge is impossible.
Proof (from LBA story code):
Code:

if life_point_obj self < 50
  set_life_point_obj self 50
endif


Polaris 2011-11-03 12:48

If I understand well, it means that if Funfrock's lives go below 50, the program resets them at 50 ?


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