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-   -   When we were young (https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=18061)

gravel22 2017-02-01 19:15

When we were young
 
Well I just though of that but when we were young and playing LBA 2 at some point we were speedrunning. Speaking of myself I was always trying to beat the game the fastest possible. I remember in the last time I've played it I used to complete it in like 6 hours. Not too bad for a 10yo kid. :lol:

Homeless 2017-02-02 11:08

Indeed. I remember having competitions with a childhood friend back around when LBA 2 was released of who could get the furthest in an hour. It escalated into what we now would probably think of a more proper speedrun, trying to complete the game the fastest. We did at least use the ferry glitch back then I recall. Good times.

MevX 2017-02-02 11:17

I think being a little kid, i didn't think about the concept of speed running as a thing, even if i did follow it to some extent. Like if i were playing a Mario game or something, i would always try to be faster. I would constantly hold the run button and go for risky stuff, dying a lot because of it, but feeling accomplished when i did manage to complete a stage. I think i enjoyed games that had fast action, and hated others which require patience and thinking. And speed running has it's way of making slow games more fast paced.

But with that said, it's not like i did runs or anything at a young age. In regards of LBA 2, the closest i've gotten to speed running in that case, would probably be using the jsb glitch in order to get an early photo pack. I think i was more interested in getting stuff back then, rather than setting a record time or something. And sometimes the speed running glitches would intersect with just that, my desire of getting stuff.

MevX 2017-02-02 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeless (Post 455534)
Indeed. I remember having competitions with a childhood friend back around when LBA 2 was released of who could get the furthest in an hour. It escalated into what we now would probably think of a more proper speedrun, trying to complete the game the fastest. We did at least use the ferry glitch back then I recall. Good times.

I had no childhood friends

SpaceGuitarist 2017-02-02 22:33

This is the first and last time I will mention my opinion here on speedrunning since I kind of dislike it, so I would just like to say that:

For me, speedrunning any game is like fast-forwarding music or a movie - what's the point? you're missing all that's good about it and that is enjoying the most of it. I surely don't like to hear fast-forwarded music because all the lyrics and the beat gets crumbled up and garbled, same for dialogues in movies, so why would you want to skip all the story and mystery in LBAs if frankly the storytelling was way ahead of it's time (compared to other games) than its combat and "action" in it.

Sure, clobbing enemies with the magicball or punches is fun, but if you reduce the game to just that it gets kinda dull, specially with the AI of it's time.

Makes me confused. :-/

MevX 2017-02-02 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 455543)
:lol: ... oh wait :? ... you're serious :( feel you bro.

it was a joke. but im bad at doing those

SpaceGuitarist 2017-02-02 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MevX (Post 455544)
it was a joke. but im bad at doing those

Oh yeah I even deleted that cause I felt bad about you :lol: should've guessed.

gravel22 2017-02-03 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 455543)
This is the first and last time I will mention my opinion here on speedrunning since I kind of dislike it, so I would just like to say that:

For me, speedrunning any game is like fast-forwarding music or a movie - what's the point? you're missing all that's good about it and that is enjoying the most of it. I surely don't like to hear fast-forwarded music because all the lyrics and the beat gets crumbled up and garbled, same for dialogues in movies, so why would you want to skip all the story and mystery in LBAs if frankly the storytelling was way ahead of it's time (compared to other games) than its combat and "action" in it.

Sure, clobbing enemies with the magicball or punches is fun, but if you reduce the game to just that it gets kinda dull, specially with the AI of it's time.

Makes me confused. :-/

Well tbh speedrunning a game uses so much shortcut you forget about the rest. That being said I can still enjoy playing the game normally.

A year ago I was like you and asking if I should speedrun it or not for the reason you mentioned. Finally decided to go on and have fun with it. I was kind of finished with LBA and it's now a whole new way to enjoy my favorite game. The more I speedrun the more I forget about the story so I can replay it later. It's a misconception.

Also your example with fast forwarding music is totally out of sense. Forwarding music is about pressing 1 button. Speedrunning is about pressing lots of buttons. It's about you and the game. It's a big achievement to stay focused one whole hour and limit yourself to few or no mistakes. It's far away from fast forwarding a song believe me.

It's also really addictive and I'm now addicted to it.

SpaceGuitarist 2017-02-03 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravel22 (Post 455547)
Speedrunning is about pressing lots of buttons.

So it's about memorizing sequences, as many sequences as one can remember and execute them as fast as possible?

ChaosFish 2017-02-03 10:50

Never been much of a fan of speedrunning either, I kinda like to do the exact opposite. To just linger as much as possible, being everywhere as many times as possible, taking the longest possible route, making sure there's no polygon, pixel, or line of code gone unexplored, letting every bit of story and every line of text sink in to its fullest, etc.

MevX 2017-02-03 11:37

Speed running may be about running through the game as quickly as possible, but i would say there are more things to it than that.

Saying that speed running a game is like fast forwarding music, implies a joyless experience where you wouldn't be able to hear anything at all. It's more like remixing your favourite music or editing it to hear new things, because you've become tired of listening to the same track over and over again. You want to experiment with it, or maybe create your own version of it. And over time you might experience small details you never thought or heard of before. A normal play through is great, but sometimes you want to go beyond that.

One of my favourite things about speed running is coming up with new ways to play the game, coming up with routes and new tricks. Ultimately the developers wants you to go a certain path, but we kinda choose our own way. That's one of the appeals of speed running, thinking what is possible for us to accomplish, what part to skip. It's a challenge within itself, and to an extent a community effort. The community is a big part in speed running, and theorising on what is possible with other people is one of the joys that i'm happy to have experienced.

I could write a lot of things about speed running that isn't so great, like the grinding and anger inducing difficulty. But that probably deserves a post of it's own.

Darkflame 2017-02-03 13:53

Speed runnings not for me, but I do admire it and love what goes into it.
Its not the runs itself, its the discovery of the cool glitches or unintended things in the game that let you go quicker.
In some ways in order to go the fastest, the game must be explored the thoroughest.

Homeless 2017-02-03 16:41

This is a topic close at heart for me and while I don't have anything against other people not agreeing in speedrunning being a wonderful thing, I at least would like to try to elaborate as much as possible on why and how it is for me. MevX did a great job in framing it otherwise and much less overly convoluted than me. Go read what he wrote.

At some point in time any game is destined to lose some or all of its value in terms of replay-ability, simply because of too much repeated exposure to the exact same patterns, the same progression through the story, the same gameplay mechanics, methods and techniques used in the same way over and over. There is also a certain point where enough gameplay time with a given game will start withering away on the facade projected by its developers that is meant to make the game feel like a cohesive whole, instead you start seeing the underlying mechanics for what they are, the bits and pieces scattered around as separate building blocks, seeing the in-game world for what it truly is.

Just like in The Matrix, man.
http://philipcoppens.com/matrix_04.jpg

We have individual bugs, glitches, plot holes, weird mechanics not working in intuitive ways and with unintended consequences etc. that all players find eventually with enough exposure. These things are just the very outer layer of the facade that is coming off. Once this outer layer starts peeling off more and more there are many who will be getting close to their breaking point - that point where they will stop playing the game altogether after too many playthroughs. You've come, you've seen it all, you think you've conquered it all too, what more is there?

For some of us however this is where the game really starts. Shit gets real. Real real.
https://media.giphy.com/media/BSfIAFmgFqB6U/giphy.gif
This is where we wake up in the real world.

It doesn't matter what game it is, as soon as you get put to the test you realise just how fragile you are. You can't run for shit. Oops, you're 30 minutes into a session, made one teeny mistake? Start over, bitch. Break your bones. You ded. :zombie:

In part, my point is; no matter how the game treats you, no matter the imposed difficulty or lack thereof by developers, once you start speedrunning a game with the intention of doing your best you will be pushing yourself to the real breaking point. It's self-improvement at its core, fueled by self-discipline and an internal battle of willpower. This may or may not be a reason for speedrunning in itself, it all depends on the person, but it is a legitimate reason and its an integral part of speedrunning when pushing to break records.

Once satiated by the games intended way of playing, you inadvertently start experimenting with alternative ways for approaching any given situation. The more you do this, the more unintended ways you will find. Among those unintended ways is likely the fastest way of approaching a certain segment in a game. Part of the thrill for some here is the discovery, of course another wholly legitimate reason for speedrunning. The fastest way found may turn out to skip a larger segment later in the game. Maybe it will have an unintentional side-effect on another part of the game whose effect is no time-save nor a time-loss, but just fun. Part of what is found may be reused and applied on other parts of the game in order to make even greater gains in finding faster routes through the game.

Speedrunning is not a quick business of affairs, despite its appearance whenever a speedrunner with great amounts of practice is at it, and also despite the name of the activity. It takes a lot of time. Finding things takes a lot of patience and effort. Refining them takes even more time, putting them into practice - double the effort. Tenfold. At the very least.

There's also a very real aspect of community-effort. Routing and running a game all alone isn't even close to as fun as it is doing it with others. Sharing the experience, helping to discover things, refine other things and push each-other even more than you can push just yourself - it's all part of what makes speedrunning such a wonderful thing.

I've probably missed many things I intended to write about. So join us and break free of the matrix and all that crap, you'll see what we mean. Just beware - there's a certain tendency for mental exhaustion and mild head trauma (completely unrelated to all the times you will bang your head against the wall when speedrunning)

SpaceGuitarist 2017-02-03 20:35

I understand now. :)
However...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeless (Post 455557)
There is also a certain point where enough gameplay time with a given game will start withering away on the facade projected by its developers

This is precisely why I wouldn't want to tamper with it. For me, the illusion is still real and all my vivid, imagination-fertile childhood memories are alive. I don't think I'd like to forever kill the game for myself and not be able to see it again how it was meant to be. I don't want to look at it and see polygons and lines of code, I want to feel the mystic presence of Sendell, the integrity and courage of Johnny Rocket, the love of ZoƩ, the wisdom and bestowed reverence given to the Weather Wizard. If I feel they are just obstacles to play with to find bugs in the code, then the sense of playing a game is pretty much lost... much like, I don't know; not looking at a painting, rather, seeing the brushstrokes? I want to see the painting, because I want to fall into the vision of the artist who envisioned it - I want to see what he saw, as much as possible, with the greatest depth of understanding, and connect to that. Not the defects in the brushstrokes that give away the illusion and reveal me just canvas and paint.

Darkflame 2017-02-03 20:38

Excellent post.
But ,ah, surely you should have used the Animatrix

gravel22 2017-02-04 03:45

Woaw Zebra you just said what I haven't took the time to write. Community work. Friends. Personal goals. Taking yourself to the impossible. I've probably spent overs 300 hours speedrunning LBA. I would have never played the game that much. So yes it's true that it's a way to revival a good old classic.

Running 30 min and restarting looks like this :
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/105616701

Your mood will suffer and change from the most happy person to the maddest in only one minute :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/105102913


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