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-   -   North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il dies December 19th... (https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=16105)

Battler 2011-12-22 05:07

North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il dies December 19th...
 
Pyongyang, December 19th, 2011. North Korean Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Il dies of heart attack due to overwork in the middle of one of his train trips. The entire country is mourning his death.

There's great uncertainty as to who will succeed him as the leader. KCNA (the Government News Agency of North Korea) announced his son Kim Jong-Un has his successor, however other sources said Kim Yong-Nam is the pro tempore leader of North Korea.

There's also great uncertainty of how this all will impact South Korea which already put its military on alert.

Personally, I see Kim Jong-Un and the generals (who never agreed with Kim Jong-Un as the successor) ending up having a fight for power which will be abused by either their own citizens trying to do a coup or by the US and South Korea trying to take over North Korea.
In any case, I see it ending in the collapse of North Korea and a return of democracy there. I hope that happens anyway.

SpaceGuitarist 2011-12-22 06:16

Saw this on 9GAG a day or two ago.
I don't know anything about their politics and issues, but the gags sure were fun.

Jasiek 2011-12-22 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411344)
heart attack due to overwork in the middle of one of his train trips.

Liquor overdose more-likely.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw...evfco1_500.jpg

Double-J 2011-12-22 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411344)
North Korean Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Il dies of heart attack due to overwork in the middle of one of his train trips. The entire country is mourning his death.

It's hard keeping a population in the throes of starvation while you're feasting on shark fin soup. Considering he continued the role of his father in building a Soviet-style police state (ex. abolishing press freedom way back in 1946, condemning hundreds of thousands of Koreans to gulag-like institutions, the purging of political opponents), it's good riddance to bad rubbish.

Seriously though, I remember doing some work on examining the Korean War and its subsequent impact on the post-1945 global order a few years ago. Contrast the modernized economic and political democracy of South Korea, and it isn't surprising to see why South Koreans live(d) in fear of the tyrant in control above the 38th parallel.

Double-J 2011-12-22 17:32

Also, for a fun time waster:

http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw...wv1lo1_500.jpg

Gustav Sweden 2011-12-24 14:40

Double-J: Who do you support in the Republican presidential primary?

Polaris 2011-12-24 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-J (Post 411353)
Also, for a fun time waster:

:-/ I don't get it...

SpaceGuitarist 2011-12-24 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 411393)
:-/ I don't get it...

It's simple: some guy with too much free time set up a site where he collects pictures of Kim looking at various things so other people with too much free time can browse them.

:lol:

Polaris 2011-12-25 23:36

That's....

Cade 2011-12-26 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist (Post 411395)
It's simple: some guy with too much free time set up a site where he collects pictures of Kim looking at various things so other people with too much free time can browse them.

:lol:

Well, in addition to simply looking at things, he leans towards them too. :lol:

Some highlights of his life: http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/20-ri...about-kim-jong

Streg 2011-12-27 09:09

Ah yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUSuUD0VT10
sure they look pretty sad. I've never seen anything as clearly hypocritical and fake as this. Or was someone aiming at their heads saying "eithel you mouln ol die, whai tieeeeee!"?

Polaris 2011-12-27 11:58

You know, maybe they are really crying, people cryed when Stalin died.

Streg 2011-12-27 21:10

that's because they already knew Chruscev would take his place :P

Axx 2011-12-28 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav Sweden (Post 411387)
Double-J: Who do you support in the Republican presidential primary?

Not that you asked me but...

Ron Paul ftw! (Doubtful unfortunately)

That said, Republican line up is hilariously bad. Seems having the IQ of a chimp is now a perquisite to running for the GOP.

Ontopic :- The Kim's are a bad case of the bad. North Koreans live in some of the worst conditions known to man. 90's famine, gulags, rampant torture, deity like status of the leadership, and complete ignorance of reality. Unheard of pretty much anywhere else in the world right now.

Leadership foreign policy appears to be one of portraying insanity. Don't doubt it for a second domestically, but somehow feel that like most cornered nations its more of a front than a reality. Their possession of nuclear weapons somewhat alarming but relatively useless as the south/states have the capability to pretty much disable the North in an instant in the face of a nuclear threat. Also a very one way MAD which I doubt the Kim's really want.

Future prospects doubtful. Internal control is so tight it seems that revolution is out of the question (though you never know). And the South appears at times to be at the Norths mercy. Sort of in the manner of a big brother having to deal with the annoyances of a younger brother without resorting to forcefulness.

China of course is very much a part of the problem. Appears to be playing with a double edged sword. On the one hand distances itself publicly, appearing to occasionally scold and restrain the NKs, on the other hand receiving its leadership innumerable times, and supplying it with whatever goods it needs to maintain its grip on power. Typical of any power, not much anyone can do about it unless they fancy fighting China, which no one does.

Gnight...

Double-J 2011-12-28 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axx (Post 411438)
Not that you asked me but...

Ron Paul ftw! (Doubtful unfortunately)

That said, Republican line up is hilariously bad. Seems having the IQ of a chimp is now a perquisite to running for the GOP.

To echo Axx, I've actually been a Paul supporter for the past few years. To me, he represents a move back toward the libertarian conservatives that have fallen by the wayside in the favor of big spending neoconservatives. Gingrich is about a decade and a half too late, Romney is a fake, and Bachmann is a looney just this side of Sarah Palin.

Like Axx said, it's incredible that the GOP field is so poor (with the exception of Paul), especially given the opportunity to pounce on the innumerable Obama gaffes (you can start with the downgrade of the credit rating, the continually sluggish economic forecast and a lack of any real plan to encourage growth, the botched abortion that was the bank and auto bailouts, the overly beneficent extension of unemployment to 2+ years, the unprecedented tax hike accompanying the new health care bill that will arrive in 2013, and an apologetic and imprudent foreign policy). It's unsurprising though.

The party has, since the late 90s, become dominated by neoconservatives, a wing that emerged in the Reagan years as former liberals (mostly Democrats) came to support the GOP while remaining adhered to traditional liberal spending values. Bush 43 was a prime example of this mantra - almost unshackled military spending with comparatively few efforts to remove the bloat from the economy or tax structure. Of course, 9/11 forever skews his presidency in the sense that we'll never know what his 'peacetime' plans would have been, especially given his own disastrous decision to engage in Iraq (which may in actuality speak to this neoconservative mindset).

Double-J 2011-12-28 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 411431)
people cryed when Stalin died.

It was all about the mustache.

Battler 2011-12-28 18:30

Oh boy, the USA... where should we start?
First off, the crisis isn't Obama's fault, but was caused by Bush's unnecessary military spending. One thing was invading Afghanistan, but Iraq really wasn't needed. The Arab Spring would have reached it anyway this year, after all Iraq was Ba'athist just like Syria still is, and you see how things are going in Syria.
Not to mention that the sovereign debt crisis is everywhere, even here in EU. We have the Euro and the EU on the brink of collapse because of it. And we don't have Obama here.

Second, Obama's healthcare reform plans are great. The US really needs it. And don't start with the usual "you know nothing about the US" - the US is still made of people who have about the same necessities as the people anywhere in the world. And health care that treats everyone equally regardless of how much money they have, is one of them.

Third, the US really needs to stop their anti-piracy, anti-paedophile and anti-terrorist witch hunts (referring to SOPA and NDAA with these paragraphs).

Piracy exists because of the outdated copyright and distribution models that exist and that the main anti-piracy lobbyists, namely the distributors, refuse to change because they know damn well that they'd be the ones to lost profit from it. The artists would actually profit more as the distribution would be direct in their hands so there wouldn't be middle men that took most of the share.

Paedophilia... the US is so much in a witch hunt against paedophilia, adopting ever stricter laws, yet it's still the #1 in the world by child abuse statistics. Comparably, the so-called "pedoland" Japan is far below that, even with its more lax laws. Interesting, isn't it? So maybe it's the the US stopped for a second, thought a bit, and realized it's doing it the wrong way?

So instead of tackling piracy and paedophilia the right way, the US tackles them with SOPA, bringing Chinese-style censorship to the US. Then the US whine about other countries' handling of human rights. No wonder the Arab Countries call US hypocrites when the US whines about others violating human rights and pressures for freedom then itself implements censorship as a patch for problems instead of actually solving them.

As for terrorism, it's a problem anywhere in the world. But it's certainly not NDAA that will make it magically stop. In fact, it will encourage even more terrorism. So anyone can be killed for suspicion of terorrism (without hard evidence, mind you). So what? Someone who wants to suicide-bomb a building won't mind being killed anyway, actually he'll even want to as he'll then appear a martyr in the eyes of his supporters. The best attitude against terrorism is ignoring it, not reacting to it with revenge bills such as NDAA, like a child.

Tl;dr, SOPA basically sweeps piracy and paedophilia under the rug, with the side effect of the possibility to get it abused to suppress politically unfavorable content. Therefore, it's basically the Great Firewall of America, not much different from the Chinese ones.
NDAA will be welcomed by terrorists as it opens the possibility of making martyrs and adding to the terrorists' causes. And the fact it allows execution without hard evidence, makes it no better than the laws of Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

And the irony here is, the US in 2003 attacked Iraq to free it from such laws, then in 2011, it adopts such laws itself. If that's not hypocrisy, then I don't know what hypocrisy is anymore.

I could also go to great lengths here about DMCA, COPPA, the PROTECT Act, and even ACTA which is basically the US attempting to impose the DMCA on the rest of the world, but I won't. It'd make this post longer than it already is.

Oh and all these crap laws (apart from DMCA) were signed in by predominantly republican congresses. Which shows what the US republican party really is.

But ah well, it's just my opinion.

Darkflame 2011-12-28 21:16

The credit rating system is a joke anyway. If its Obamas fault the rating went down, its only because his administration wasn't bribing them hard enough.
Seriously why anyone should care what "Standard & Poor" think is crazy - theres plenty of real solid economic indicators without needing a arbitrary opinion to be taken. (which you pay them to give you btw).

Also this whole "AAA to AA+" nonsense scheme is childish too. "B" is there worst rating. Its like a school which doesn't want to say anyones actually bad.
==

I think Obama has made a fair few mistakes - but also didnt really have much to work with and was up against probably one of the most stubborn oppositions in history.(like when republican senators agreed to block all other legislation untill the bush tax cut extension was signed into law - one of the biggest political "dick moves" I've seen)
I dont envy him at all.
====

As for Kim Jong, I thought he was only....Il

sorry :p

Double-J 2011-12-29 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411448)
First off, the crisis isn't Obama's fault, but was caused by Bush's unnecessary military spending.

I kind of stopped seriously reading here. Not because Bush's spending (which I criticized in my above post) wasn't partly to blame, but that this is a narrow minded viewpoint of the larger fiscal issues at hand. 20-something years of economic policy that encouraged free trade without any protectionist urge could be the very tip of the iceberg in a discussion as to the current financial crisis (in America at least).

That being said, I see nothing that Obama has done to change the formula. Substitute military spending for social spending and you've merely changed bills. The bailout (which, if you want to keep being technical, began under Bush) has proven to be a misguided attempt at corporate benevolence in reverse. Similarly, the attempts at job creation do little to attack the key problems facing the economy: inflation and outsourcing.

Quote:

Second, Obama's healthcare reform plans are great. The US really needs it. And don't start with the usual "you know nothing about the US" - the US is still made of people who have about the same necessities as the people anywhere in the world. And health care that treats everyone equally regardless of how much money they have, is one of them.
You mean the health care reforms that have actually (and will continue to) statistically drive costs up for all Americans, and will place an unprecedented tax burden upon the country (not just the "rich" for those keeping score) when it kicks in fully in 2013?

I won't say you know nothing about the U.S. I'll say you're delusional. How's that? Because health care still isn't and won't be treating people equally.

Quote:

Third, the US really needs to stop their anti-piracy, anti-paedophile and anti-terrorist witch hunts (referring to SOPA and NDAA with these paragraphs).
Ah, the usual Obras rallying flag. I was waiting for it.

NDAA was just passed under Obama. Under a Democratic senate. And a GOP house. Just an FYI.

But let's cut out all the rhetoric, and summarize what NDAA can really do: declare something of a state of emergency and allow the military to supersede local police structures.

Despite my libertarian urges, I don't necessarily oppose this, though your preference for a piracy-friendly state certainly makes clear why you'd oppose something like this. If it prevents the legal haggling that occurred with men like the shoe bomber and such, so be it. Ironically, Obama is the one who tried to close Guantanamo, and now this bill effectively will prevent its closure. Which I will give him is a plus. More of these are needed to keep dangerous prisoners off American soil.

Of course, this all depends on your stance on whether terrorists are indeed common criminals or in fact enemy combatants, soldiers, and the like.

I'm not going to touch the pedophilia issue because I don't think it will yield any rational discussion. Although I will comment briefly on your logic here:

Quote:

Paedophilia... the US is so much in a witch hunt against paedophilia, adopting ever stricter laws, yet it's still the #1 in the world by child abuse statistics. Comparably, the so-called "pedoland" Japan is far below that, even with its more lax laws. Interesting, isn't it? So maybe it's the the US stopped for a second, thought a bit, and realized it's doing it the wrong way?
Or maybe you could take a second and compare the relative populations of the United States and Japan. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Quote:

Oh and all these crap laws (apart from DMCA) were signed in by predominantly republican congresses. Which shows what the US republican party really is.
You do realize that Congress can only pass laws, and that it takes a Presidential signature (or a Congressional override) and the validation of its Constitutionality by the U.S. Supreme Court for a law to be passed? Right?

Far be it from me to defend the GOP in its current state, but I can't tell whether your demagoguery is directed at the modern Republican party or the United States in general or just the United States sans the Democrat party or anyone who opposes electronic piracy. I'm going with the latter.

Double-J 2011-12-29 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkflame (Post 411451)
The credit rating system is a joke anyway. If its Obamas fault the rating went down, its only because his administration wasn't bribing them hard enough.
Seriously why anyone should care what "Standard & Poor" think is crazy - theres plenty of real solid economic indicators without needing a arbitrary opinion to be taken. (which you pay them to give you btw).

Also this whole "AAA to AA+" nonsense scheme is childish too. "B" is there worst rating. Its like a school which doesn't want to say anyones actually bad.

Considering the amount of pork (ex. Solara) that exists in the contemporary political landscape, it is somewhat surprising then that a simple bribe wasn't injected into the coffers of Standards and Poor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkflame (Post 411451)
I think Obama has made a fair few mistakes - but also didnt really have much to work with and was up against probably one of the most stubborn oppositions in history.(like when republican senators agreed to block all other legislation untill the bush tax cut extension was signed into law - one of the biggest political "dick moves" I've seen)
I dont envy him at all.

Keep in mind that block by the GOP, in what has been a rare example of foresight on their part most recently, was an attempt to get the tax cuts made permanent and long term, largely to counteract the aforementioned 2013 Obama tax increases. And despite the rhetoric, without the tax cuts, all Americans would be paying more.

I'm very impressed with how the DNC handled this most recent political standoffs. The party that has been synonymous with big government spending somehow managed to come off as an anti-tax party, if only for a moment, by commandeering an approach that made the GOP look like they didn't care about tax cuts. Somehow they managed to make themselves look as if they were genuinely interested in keeping taxes low, when the history of this current Congress and the subsequent legislation coming onto the books as aforementioned could not make that any further from the truth.

And also, for what its worth, keep in mind that the DNC, which only now clutched the Bush tax cuts to their breasts as if they were clutching the working class to their bosom, was the same party that vociferously opposed the Bush tax cuts as "tax cuts for the rich!" since their inception. The about-face is amusing for those of us watching the Beltway.

Battler 2011-12-29 23:33

Quote:

Or maybe you could take a second and compare the relative populations of the United States and Japan. Go ahead. I'll wait.
When the US is percentually #1 by number of paedophiles, whatever the population, isn't revelant. Plus, the US total population is 300 million, Japan's is 130 million. About half of the US population. So not that far.
Edit: The population in the People's Republic of China is about 2 billion, in India about 1.5 billion if I recall correctly. Yet, percentually, US is above both of them by number of paedophiles. So again proving the population isn't relevant. The US isn't the country with the most inhabitans of the world.

Please, the US needs to stop being hysterical at what will "emotionally scar the children". In both Europe and Japan, we have sexual education at school teaching kids human anatomy (incl. genitals), complete with showing drawings of the naked human body. Do our kids get scarred? No.

The reason for why the US is percentually the #1 in the world by number of paedophiles, isn't because the US people are more attracted to children than the rest of the world, it's because of what's classified as paedophilia in the US. There are things classified as paedophilia in the US that are not considered such in the rest of the world. As a consequence, there are people considered paedophiles in the US, that wouldn't be considered such in the rest of the world. And this says a lot.

And the US is not only willing to change its ways, it even pressures the rest of the world to adapt to US morals. Let's just go 2 or so years ago when the US pressured Japan to reduce the production of lolicon and shotacon because it offends US morals and attempted to threaten with trading problems if Japan didn't do it. Result, partially Japan tries to curb its production, partially a lot of Japanese visual novel etc. companies make their sites inaccessible to visitors outside Japan, stating they do that to allow Japan to keep evolving its own culture without other countries moralizing them. Result of that? Japan gets willing to export even less.

Then there's the Internet. Most major sites are hosted in the US, this includes most major search engines. Result? Search results for lolicon or shotacon being removed because of Chilling Effects complaints about "child porn", even when someone from anothe country uses a non-US edition of Google. Yet lolicon and shotacon are legal in a lot of countries (such as in most of the EU, except for I think UK), so the result is, people have search results filtered by US law, preventing people from other countries from seeing results legal in their countries just because they're illegal in US. So it does affect people from other countries too.

With SOPA, this will get worse. We'll get Google filtering even more search results. Means people will be prevented from seeing even more search results legal in their countries, just because they happen to be illegal (or simply reported as illegal, SOPA doesn't require proving by hard evidence so someone can simply report politically unfavorable material as illegal) in the US.

Quote:

though your preference for a piracy-friendly state
Quite frankly, how much do you know about how the recording or movie industries work? Nothing (and I don't know much either), but it's a well known fact that it's the publishers that get most of the money. The actual artists don't get that much from record/CD/DVD sales. They get most of the money from appearances, concerts (musicians), and actual acting (actors, etc.).
Make a distribution model where the artists get anything at all from the distribution, then complain about piracy. Until then, there's no complaint that should be done IMHO. RIAA and MPAA still bathe in billions despite all the piracy, yet still whine about it and invent crap such as DRM that enforces their rights by curbing our legal rights of making backups etc.

Another thing where piracy helps, is globalization. Let's face it, without piracy, It'd be impossible for me to even know about artists/movies/etc. that aren't broadcast in my country, so my choice would be much more limited. Thanks to piracy, I can get to know about any, and then choose to pay for their music if I wish so and if I have the money to.
We live in a world where we should be more and more globalized, means our choices should have the possibility of being more and more worldwide, but yet the old distribution/advertisement model for music etc. goes against that. With the old model, they only sell in my country what they know for a certainity will sell, and don't even try selling anything else.
With a better model, there'd be no costs for distribution (as I envision paid distribution via Internet here), so everything would be distributed worldwide and instantly. Much better for globalization, isn't it? And the average price for a song online still today is lower than on average from a CD. Remove the DRM as well, and you have the perfect model. Affortable, legal, global and instant. And most important, modern!

But alas, as long as people like you jusitfy their old model because they don't have the courage to risk their job post by defending unconventional points of view, instead chickening out and becoming conservatives, well nothing will change.
And I know that's the case here, because I remember years ago when you defended adolescent rights, etc. Then one day suddenly you became a conservative. In the same period, you finished your PhD and got a job. Can't be a coincidence.

As for the taxes, when a country is in a sovereign debt crisis, like the US and most EU countries atm are, taxes should be raised rather than cut. The state needs more money, not less. Thankfully, the current technical apolitical Government in Italy under Prime Minister Mario Monti is doing just that right now.

Double-J 2011-12-29 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411474)
When the US is percentually #1 by number of paedophiles, whatever the population, isn't revelant. Plus, the US total population is 300 million, Japan's is 130 million. About half of the US population. So not that far.


Having more than twice the population doesn't account for a significant discrepancy between the density of a given variable? Interesting logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411474)
Please, the US needs to stop being hysterical at what will "emotionally scar the children". In both Europe and Japan, we have sexual education at school teaching kids human anatomy (incl. genitals), complete with showing drawings of the naked human body. Do our kids get scarred? No.

Such as?

Quote:

Then there's the Internet. Most major sites are hosted in the US, this includes most major search engines. Result? Search results for lolicon or shotacon being removed because of Chilling Effects complaints about "child porn", even when I use Google Slovenia or Google Japan. Yet lolicon and shotacon are legal in my country (and in most of the EU, except for I think UK), so the result is, I have search results filtered by US law, preventing me from seeing results legal in my country just because they're illegal in US. So it does affect me.
I am totally in favor of this chilling. Like human trafficking, every effort should be taken to hamper means of communication for these industries, including child porn.

If you don't like it, you are more than free to create your own search engine and look at it.

Quote:

Quite frankly, how much do you know about how the recording or movie industries work? Nothing (and I don't know much either), but it's a well known fact that it's the publishers that get most of the money. The actual artists don't get that much from record/CD/DVD sales. They get most of the money from appearances, concerts (musicians), and actual acting (actors, etc.).
Make a distribution model where the artists get anything at all from the distribution, then complain about piracy. Until then, there's no complaint that should be done IMHO. RIAA and MPAA still bathe in billions despite all the piracy, yet still whine about it and invent crap such as DRM that enforces their rights by curbing our legal rights of making backups etc.
Then why aren't artists routinely and consistently campaigning for such a model and/or promoting change? If this model is so ineffectual in terms of rewarding them for their work, why do they seem so attached to it?


Quote:

But alas, as long as people like you jusitfy their old model because they don't have the courage to risk their job post by defending unconventional points of view, instead chickening out and becoming conservatives, well nothing will change.


And I know that's the case here, because I remember years ago when you defended adolescent rights, etc. Then one day suddenly you became a conservative. In the same period, you finished your PhD and got a job. Can't be a coincidence.
I'm quite confused. I've always been conservative, which places me in the minority among my profession, and a minority among my age group. I'm uncertain as to what inconsistency you're referring to, other than maturing from the days where Axx and I nearly killed each other.

This may shock you, but I doubt any of us (Gustav, Axx, etc.) are merely pretending to hold these viewpoint(s). I don't presume to speak for them, however.

Quote:

As for the taxes, when a country is in a sovereign debt crisis, like the US and most EU countries atm are, taxes should be raised rather than cut. The state needs more money, not less. Thankfully, the current technical apolitical Government in Italy under Prime Minister Mario Monti is doing just that right now.
The U.S. state is far from broke. The problem is that the government has shown that it has a poor understanding as to how to encourage and sustain economic growth. The tax money has been redistributed into areas that provide no job creation and little long term fiscal sense. This is not a development that recently occurred under Obama, as I mentioned earlier, but something that has been happening for decades. That being said, Obama is president as an economic precipice, and his policies are what I would consider to be even more detrimental than those of his predecessors.

With the exception of wealth redistribution, which is both undesirable and inconsistent with the U.S. economic model (at least prior to the most recent Democrat Congress, so it seems), I see no benefit from throwing money into the coffers of the federal government. The problem with the U.S. federal government is that it is bloated and has become a model that largely works for its own benefit, rather than working for and of the people.

Axx 2011-12-30 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battler (Post 411474)
When the US is percentually #1 by number of paedophiles, whatever the population, isn't revelant. Plus, the US total population is 300 million, Japan's is 130 million. About half of the US population. So not that far.
Edit: The population in the People's Republic of China is about 2 billion, in India about 1.5 billion if I recall correctly. Yet, percentually, US is above both of them by number of paedophiles. So again proving the population isn't relevant. The US isn't the country with the most inhabitans of the world.

Please, the US needs to stop being hysterical at what will "emotionally scar the children". In both Europe and Japan, we have sexual education at school teaching kids human anatomy (incl. genitals), complete with showing drawings of the naked human body. Do our kids get scarred? No.

The reason for why the US is percentually the #1 in the world by number of paedophiles, isn't because the US people are more attracted to children than the rest of the world, it's because of what's classified as paedophilia in the US. There are things classified as paedophilia in the US that are not considered such in the rest of the world. As a consequence, there are people considered paedophiles in the US, that wouldn't be considered such in the rest of the world. And this says a lot.

And the US is not only willing to change its ways, it even pressures the rest of the world to adapt to US morals. Let's just go 2 or so years ago when the US pressured Japan to reduce the production of lolicon and shotacon because it offends US morals and attempted to threaten with trading problems if Japan didn't do it. Result, partially Japan tries to curb its production, partially a lot of Japanese visual novel etc. companies make their sites inaccessible to visitors outside Japan, stating they do that to allow Japan to keep evolving its own culture without other countries moralizing them. Result of that? Japan gets willing to export even less.

Then there's the Internet. Most major sites are hosted in the US, this includes most major search engines. Result? Search results for lolicon or shotacon being removed because of Chilling Effects complaints about "child porn", even when someone from anothe country uses a non-US edition of Google. Yet lolicon and shotacon are legal in a lot of countries (such as in most of the EU, except for I think UK), so the result is, people have search results filtered by US law, preventing people from other countries from seeing results legal in their countries just because they're illegal in US. So it does affect people from other countries too.

With SOPA, this will get worse. We'll get Google filtering even more search results. Means people will be prevented from seeing even more search results legal in their countries, just because they happen to be illegal (or simply reported as illegal, SOPA doesn't require proving by hard evidence so someone can simply report politically unfavorable material as illegal) in the US.


Quite frankly, how much do you know about how the recording or movie industries work? Nothing (and I don't know much either), but it's a well known fact that it's the publishers that get most of the money. The actual artists don't get that much from record/CD/DVD sales. They get most of the money from appearances, concerts (musicians), and actual acting (actors, etc.).
Make a distribution model where the artists get anything at all from the distribution, then complain about piracy. Until then, there's no complaint that should be done IMHO. RIAA and MPAA still bathe in billions despite all the piracy, yet still whine about it and invent crap such as DRM that enforces their rights by curbing our legal rights of making backups etc.

Another thing where piracy helps, is globalization. Let's face it, without piracy, It'd be impossible for me to even know about artists/movies/etc. that aren't broadcast in my country, so my choice would be much more limited. Thanks to piracy, I can get to know about any, and then choose to pay for their music if I wish so and if I have the money to.
We live in a world where we should be more and more globalized, means our choices should have the possibility of being more and more worldwide, but yet the old distribution/advertisement model for music etc. goes against that. With the old model, they only sell in my country what they know for a certainity will sell, and don't even try selling anything else.
With a better model, there'd be no costs for distribution (as I envision paid distribution via Internet here), so everything would be distributed worldwide and instantly. Much better for globalization, isn't it? And the average price for a song online still today is lower than on average from a CD. Remove the DRM as well, and you have the perfect model. Affortable, legal, global and instant. And most important, modern!

But alas, as long as people like you jusitfy their old model because they don't have the courage to risk their job post by defending unconventional points of view, instead chickening out and becoming conservatives, well nothing will change.
And I know that's the case here, because I remember years ago when you defended adolescent rights, etc. Then one day suddenly you became a conservative. In the same period, you finished your PhD and got a job. Can't be a coincidence.

As for the taxes, when a country is in a sovereign debt crisis, like the US and most EU countries atm are, taxes should be raised rather than cut. The state needs more money, not less. Thankfully, the current technical apolitical Government in Italy under Prime Minister Mario Monti is doing just that right now.

Wow, this is gibberish at its very worst!

Battler 2011-12-30 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-J
Having more than twice the population doesn't account for a significant discrepancy between the density of a given variable? Interesting logic.

Quite honestly, let's give an example here using hypothetical number. Let's say a hypothetical 50 percent of US population were paedophiles, as compared to a hypothetical 25 percent of Japan. US has 300 million people in total, Japan 130 million in total. This means, in this hypothetical case, we have a hypothetical 150 million paedophiles in US, compared to a hypothetical 32.5 million in Japan. This makes the US even worse than if we completely distegarded the number of people.

So you've pretty shot your defense in the leg here. If the US has more people than Japan, and has percentually more paedophiles with respect to its total population than Japan, then the US is much worse off.

Quote:

Such as?
Such as US (but Italian too, for example, mind you) parental organizations freaking out over cleavage in anime, Sailor Moon being a prime example of that. It's not even full frontal nudity, just some lines showing breasts, and apparently it's enough to be considered obscene in the US and censored.

Quote:

I am totally in favor of this chilling. Like human trafficking, every effort should be taken to hamper means of communication for these industries, including child porn.

If you don't like it, you are more than free to create your own search engine and look at it.
There's a difference between real child porn and lolicon or shotacon which is either drawn or animated and in any case involves no actual children in its production. And when US-based search engine censor it in countries where it's perfectly legal for obvious reasons, just because it's illegal in the US, that's the US infringing on the sovereignity of other countries by forcing information to be filtered according to US law even in other countries.

And I'm sure someone outside the US would have created their own search engine and made it a success (the Russians have Yandex, for that matter) if it weren't for the presence of big American corporations such as Google in every single EU country, making it hard to viably compete against them.

And BTW, once again there's more child abuse and paedophilia in the US where lolicon and shotacon are illegal, than in EU or Japan where they're legal. Interesting, isn't it? It's not causation, that's for sure, but it's still an interesting correlation.

Quote:

Then why aren't artists routinely and consistently campaigning for such a model and/or promoting change? If this model is so ineffectual in terms of rewarding them for their work, why do they seem so attached to it?
Believe it or not, some indie artists are already using the new model. The major artists don't because they'd lose most of their fanbase due to mainstream media not informing the people of the existence of such a model. The problem is, most people learn about things from the mainstream media (TV, radio, etc.), and the mainstream media won't broadcast about something that won't give them money. The mainstream media is itself part of the old mode and would need significant changes in order to become part of the new one.

And with the big corporations such as record labels actually owning the copyright to the major artists' songs, movies, etc., said artists etc. can't just go and take a new distribution model. New ones can choose an alternative model, old ones can't as they don't have copyright over their stuff. And the law in most countries at this moment sides with the big corporations so if the big corporations refuse to let one of their artists move to the new model, the artists have their hands tied.

A lot would have to be changed in order to make all major artists go for the new models. First, pass laws that give copyright to THEM for their material. Second, reform major media to show new/uncertain-profit things too rather than just major stuff. Third, launch major online venues for such new distribution and so on.

Hey, I got a secondary idea that would bring this system to people without the Internet or means to make on-line payments: vending machines that would show you a search engine able to find any song from any artist from anywhere in the world, make you select enough songs to fit on eg. a CD, calculate the price for all the songs you selected then press you a CD with them after you pay the price.
Or hell, to remove the need for pressing discs, just make it use USB and transfer songs directly to eg. MP3 players via USB.
You could do the same for movies too, and even for software. Obviously it would need fast Internet connection to the vending machines and fast servers to store the stuff on, but hey I'm sure at least one of the major corporations has enough money for that. Just convince them by means of laws and bills to encourage the adoption of this new model.

The Internet has endless possibilities for distribution, organize and use them so everyone benefits of it instead of rejecting and suppressing them.

And BTW, a lot of present day artists aren't so much artists as they are byproducts of those very corporations. I'm referring to ones like Justin Bieber or Hannah Montana. For them to adopt a system that goes against the major corporations would be basically going against themselves.
You know, with the new model I'm talking about, artists need to be actually good in order to sell rather than selling just because they belong to the major labels etc. which guarantees them media exposure.

Quote:

I'm quite confused. I've always been conservative, which places me in the minority among my profession, and a minority among my age group. I'm uncertain as to what inconsistency you're referring to, other than maturing from the days where Axx and I nearly killed each other.

This may shock you, but I doubt any of us (Gustav, Axx, etc.) are merely pretending to hold these viewpoint(s). I don't presume to speak for them, however.
I clearly recall you defending teenage rights year ago, then suddenly your view turned 180 degrees and you started supporting the conservative "people under 18 should have no rights" point of view.

Reek 2011-12-30 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-J (Post 411477)
Having more than twice the population doesn't account for a significant discrepancy between the density of a given variable? Interesting logic.

If i understood the question correctly, then no, it doesn't.
If we're going to try and decide which country is more pedo, then the density of pedophiles is exactly what we look for.
Why would having twice the population affect the number of pedophiles per [some arbitrary unit] of population?


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