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Old 2021-02-02, 17:17
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko View Post
Roy,

What you said about my example of firefighters was pretty good. So was the rest, very well written and allround gives me a clear view of how and why you think like you do.
The funny thing is that while you see yourself as being raised more critically thinking, I too see myself that, and I question a lot of things too. But to me it looks like you don't apply those same rules to the theories/people that support those stories. It is a funny thing really. How we can both think that of ourselves and the other

I am wondering what the core difference is, try and simplify why I would reason one way and you the other way. Obviously how you are raised is one thing. But there must be a more simple way to define it. I think you are a bit more likely to connect dots when there is a possible connection, while I would not do that so fast. It is an assumption, maybe it is not true. But it seems like it at this point.

I can see the reasoning, or I think I can behind follow the money.
Fact checkers check facts, who pays them? the one who stands to gain from a certain outcome. I can see how that would look suspicious. But to me it seems like when you see a possible connection between "dots", you imediately link them, where I do not.

Take Bill gates for example. I know we didn't talk about it and maybe you don't agree with the example, but just humor me. There was this video where Bill stated that if the economy in Africa would get better, there would be less growth of the population. While I can see how it looks weird if a white guy starts talking about how much growth or not the population in africa should have, it can be understood that he meant the world in general, and we all know mother earth is suffering from massive population and food consumption. Nothing weird there.

But a lot of people take that line out of context and then say: "hey bill gates is interested in depopulation". "hey he is supporting / creating vaccines". "hey some people die from those vaccines" ---> he must be rolling out his world population control device! This is what I mean with connecting dots. Surely I am over simplifying and maybe making a bit of a mockery out of it. And for sure there will be better reasons why it may be suspicious. But this was the video I saw and I just cannot wrap my head around what people conclude from obvious framing and taking things out of context.

Now imagine being Bill gates, wouldn't you fund fact checkers in a world that is obviously suffering from people willing to believe the wildes stories? You even yourself admitted that flat earth is a bullshit theory. Even if it was made up by the CIA. Doesn't that also mean that random people are willing to believe strange things? There are more than one explanation. This is what I mean with "follow the money" how it is often used is naive and too simplistic.

Ok long story short; let's say you start your own factchecler company / organization. Would you let yourself be paid to lie even if it is to cover up thousands of deaths? Do you think everyone can be bought? Can you be bought?

Second, and that seems to be underlooked. Just because there is a possible motive and a possible gain, there is also a risk. Imagine the scientists that says: "hey you know what, if we poison these vaccins we can make hell of a profit selling medicine". He takes a huge risk because we can both agree this would be pretty satanistic and insane. Same with the 9/11 idea. Now I am not saying these things never happen. For sure. But I am just pointing out that just because there is a possible gain + motive, doesn't mean it is the logical only conclusion we can take.

Even even shorter:
I do agree on some stuff though: using a new technqiue to roll out a vaccin to the whole world largely untested seems way risky. Personally I would prefer the original technique's for how vaccins are made.
And I agree that these lockdowns are also having effects on us that are unstudied, and shutting down the whole society is a bad idea.
Jesse,

First of all thanks for taking the time to understand, and to write a respectful reply; I completely understand you: you are valid in being skeptic and not just jumping into conclusions.

I have taken my own conclusions based on all that I have seen. On the Gates matter for instance, there's a lot more you can look into it (documents, speeches, links to his companies and institutions, shareholders and sponsors, etc.) to understand why people are accusing him of those things. While the first video I have linked is in german and lengthy, the second video is pretty self-explanatory.

Still, it's alright to be skeptical about it. Which is why I prefer not to go into accusing; rather questioning. Which is why I don't claim to have all the answers either, and I am ready and willing to change my opinions as new evidences come in. This is what critical thinking is all about, seeing the information you have at hand and critically analysing it. But if you don't have a lot of information at hand, or only partial information from the same sources, then what is the use?

That's why I urge everyone to do their own research. But not a biased research towards everything you already believe in, but let yourself hear the voices of those who are dissonant from your own ideas -- they might open your eyes to new realities. Give them a try. See what they have to tell you. Not everything is made up, and much of it are personal, first-hand accounts, absolutely factual. What I did here in MBN is to bring 0,1% of evidences which are publicly available in ready-to-serve links, from a world out there which is widely known but purposefully ignored out of ignorance; like our lovely reek put it, "shady accounts". But what is shady? These are the ways human beings can communicate to each other while under severe censorship. So many videos are deleted and so many accounts banned. If we do live in a transparent society aiming for the common well being, why can't we have free speech? why people need hiding like in Parler, which was taken down by the Big Tech? and now to Signal, Telegram groups and other encrypted platforms which are outside of government surveillance?

The very existence of fact checkers imply that there is an "underground" group of "conspiracy theorists" constantly creating new shocking material with the sole intent of spreading "fake ideas and fake news" onto the world, relentlessly, day after day, without any clear profit they make from doing that, without ever showing us what these so-called 'fake' content creators have to gain by doing it. And this is the idea which I find absolutely laughable. Because while the system is packed with global media, governments and official institutions to dictate what is an what isn't to the world, the population needs to fight its way out to be heard. It really is a fight. Of course, I am generalizing here, but you get the idea. It is extremely one-sided, to receive what the media wants is far easier than to contradict what the media wants.

Fact-checkers are like George Orwell's "Ministry of Truth", USSR's "Department of Agitation & Propaganda" or Nazi era's "Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment & Propaganda". These institutions really existed (save for the one from 1984, but we're almost there), its in our history, and they have controlled precious information from leaking and reaching out to the general population. And to protect the population from what exactly? Our governments don't hold a good reputation. I doubt you can name a handful of politicians you'd give your life for. Unlike, what we see with the Dalai Lama and how those who are under his guidance have the most deep and profound respect and veneration towards him. I doubt the same could be said for any politician. The holocaust was legal, and the people who hid the jews were criminals. Slavery was legal, and people who freed slaves were criminals. Racial segregation was legal, and those who stood up for equality and justice were criminals. Our government and its laws aren't a guide for morality or human decency. We tend to believe we are in a modern world where all these kinds of atrocities are left behind, and forget that at the times when those things happened, they used to think of themselves as modern, too. What is the world of 2200 going to think of 2020? we also forget that in a digital, tracked, traced, highly surveilled AI-enhanced society the possibilities are far more scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko View Post
let's say you start your own factchecler company / organization. Would you let yourself be paid to lie even if it is to cover up thousands of deaths? Do you think everyone can be bought? Can you be bought?
I think most people are blind to it. They don't think they are doing anything wrong. They are legitimately thinking they are doing the right thing. We see that with the usual sensationalism in everyday media, even before 2020, ever since its conception, its full of sensationalist, cheap thoughts. As for those who know what they are doing is wrong, either are bought or ostracized. Not to mention all kinds of threats (life, job, family, reputation, so on). Given the amount of social unbalance, capitalistic greed and materialism in this world, it is not a light statement to say that money can & do make its way to whichever ends that need to be met.
__________________
Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual

Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2021-02-02 at 18:01.
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