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Old 2016-02-02, 05:42
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
So I guess that's what most people want... It's called voting... Are you doubting the efficiency of voting ? (not provoking, alternative systems do exist and have been theorised)
At least here in Slovenia, we have no political party that doesn't follow the SJW party line. Even the United Left, who are euroskeptics and pro-Russians, support gay marriage, gay adoption, and uncontrolled immigration.

That sounds an awfull lot like a generalisation and a scapegoat...

Yeah, but homosexual couples adopt orphans... You think growing up in an orphanage would be better than growing up with two same-sexed parents ?
Please, spare me the false dichotomy. It's not like there's NO heterosexual couples wanting children and looking to adopt - there are. Homosexual couples should be considered for adoption after heterosexual couples have all been given children.

About all the examples you bring up, you still don't give any sources... I tried looking though, but you list so much that I can't spend more than 5 mins per example, it would really be more practical for you if you dug up the articles that speak about this.
I'll do it later.

I found nothing that could validate this. The only site that talked about this said that there is a new sexual education program which uses sex toys and encourages children to massage each other or rub themselves to their leisure, nothing more... (considering the sad state about sexual acceptance in general in our world, where 5 boobs make a movie 16+ (Liza the fox-fairy), but a dead baby corpse make it 12+(trainspotting), I'd say it's a good thing, but that's an other debate)
5 boobs make a movie 16+? Where? "Trading Places" (yes, the one with Eddie Murphy) shows quite a few pairs of boobs, and yet even in staunchly catholic Italy it's rated "all ages".
And a sexual education program that does what you just described is BAD.

From what I gathered (from RT as well), as of the 28th of January the guy was still not found, the girl herself reported the incident to the police and faces a fine. This is fucked-up indeed, and the fact that no-one (no-one !) says that the police is right shows that this a loophole and will hopefully soon be fixed.
Alright, good that we agreed on this.

I found that there was a debate in the constitutional court, whether this is anticonstitutional or not. The campaign was put on hold until the end, and was allowed after the debate... Don't see much of a problem here, as ideally, the constitutional court is more or less independant from the parliament, so it is more difficult to control by the ministers.
But the US Constitution says that such things are a state matter, so it is not up to a federal judge to impose gay marriage onto every single state.

This was a survey backed by the government, it has nothing to do with how the school works, nor with education (which btw should be only the parents task). It has been vastly critiscised and withdrawn since.
The fact this survey was even made shows the government are screwed up in their heads.

Didn't find anything about them being pedophiles... They are called that way because they want to set the minimal age of consent to 12 years... Quite low, but not unprecedented in the world...
They cooperate with the likes of NAMBLA, etc., which *ARE* paedophiles.

What's your point here ? The German government is cold hearted and all about business ? Human standards can't be applied to governments, governments aren't human... Also, the main thing bothering people here is that on top of this, Germany is good at its job. If a poor country was bargaining like this, no one would care.
Then allow Greece to exit the EU. Yet that wasn't allowed them either. Tsipras threatened with exiting the EU and the Germans said that shouldn't be allowed. Also, Germans are good at what exactly? Germany itself has very damning problems, such as massive unemployment in the former East Germany... there's a reason why Ostalgie is big... And now Germany have shot themselves in the leg by allowing immigrants to uncontrolledly flow in.
And also, how is demanding Greece to pass laws (such as eg. austerity) its own population voted against in any way democratic?
Also no, it's not business at all. If I was a company and one of my customers demanded I fire 10 employees or else they won't buy my products anymore, I would tell them they know where the door is. And Tsipras had no problems letting the Germans know that if they don't give him the money, he will just get it from Putin, who did confirm he is prepared to pay.
So the Germans have the choice - stop blackmailing Greece and keep Greece in the EU, or continue blackmailing Greece and see Greece exit the EU and go straight into Russia's arms.

I doubt that Germany would allow uncontrolled immigration, but tere is no clear way of dealing with refugees. Some countries are letting them in maybe too much others are doing everything to keep them out, none of those is a solution.
Germany has allowed uncontrolled immigration, and they even stated they did it because they had to be cause of all the atrocities they committed during World War II. Also, the solution is a good system of border controls, so we can let in the good immigrants but force the bad ones (the Jihadis) to stay the hell out.

Are you sure about these ? (your post is long and it's getting late, so I don't have energy to verify everything you say) Do you have the mortality and crime rates for said countries ?
There is a shooting every few days in Sweden. It's become as filled with crime as the US. And as for Germany, just ask all the women that have been groped or even raped for new year in Cologne.

What I could find about this (on breitbart and wikipedia) was a law proposal (don't know if it has been voted), stating that 12 years old could change their legal gender and 15 years old could have a sex changing surgery without the consent of their parents, but with the consent of a psychiatrist.
Yes and that is very bad. First, parents should have the final say as long as their child is a minor. Once their child reaches the legal age, however, then they can do as they please, provided they provide for themselves of course. Second, minors should not be allowed such life-changing decisions anyway, because they are simply too immature for it.

You stated your examples to show that the situation is as bad here as in China, concerning the individual freedoms and the rights of the citizens. Apart from your examples being messy and imprecise, they either deal with relation between governments (Germany-Greece),
Germany is also autocratically dictating what laws Italy may or may not pass. This is a violation of sovereignity and anti-democratic. They are also imposing crappy policies onto Slovenia, for example, they are insisting that Slovenia should lower minimum wage to €400 per month (currently €500) because it's "too close to average income" when the real problem is that average income is too low.

more rights given to the citizens (gender changing in Sweden, trying to lower the minimal age of consent in the Netherland),
You seriously consider these good things? Come on...

an example for a case where a referendum passed against a previous government choice (Slovenia),
Yes, a referendum which was almost blocked by the same government, and the EU was fine with said attempt to block it.

or choices that do not affect directly the life of the citizens (Germany, Sweden).
So allowing uncontrolled immigration and blocking parties that oppose it does not directly affect the lives of the citizens? Yes, it does. Ask the women who were groped or even raped by immigrants in Cologne during new year, or the people I know in Sweden who had direct bad experiences with the immigrants.

True that, but unfortunately governments tend to take into acount their own citizens way more than those of foreign countries. To change that we would need some sort of centralised European government, but I feel people aren't ready for that either.
No, what we need is to give each country its full sovereignity back. That way Greece can pass laws that are best for it, while Germany only has to care about itself and its own citizens.

What examples have you provided ? You linked a news site, but nothing precise
Moreover once again, examples do not prove anything. Even if all news media would present views existing in the US, it still wouldn't prove that it is simply their opinion. The German journalist admitting stuff is indeed a proof about himself, and a very alarming hunch about other journalists, but... you didn't... link any source... (and i didn't find said article on RT (I looked up "German CIA"))
Well then, it's up to you to provide a viable alternate explanation for the examples and accompany it with evidence. You refuse to do that.

Sanctioned how ? No business with them ? That's an economic choice, not a punishment...
Blackmail != business. And countries *ARE* people since a country includes the entirety of its citizens.

Write them off ? Where did I imply that ? And it isn't blackmail, they can choose to do business with them or not, it's nothing more...
No, you said Germany doesn't want to give Greece the money. But Greece currently only needs German money to repay its debt... to Germany. So the money goes right back to Germany anyway. So Germany would be much better off to just write off the Greek debt. Yet they refuse even that. While, of course, demanding Russia do just that with Ukraine's debt. So Russia has to bend over to Ukraine, while Germany can bully Greece all it wants? Sorry, Merkel, it's one or the other, not and.

I cannot think of one single country where the government supports citizens beating up eachother. I'm going to need very concrete sources/proof on this one.
Maybe not encouraged, but several Western countries quite gleefully look the other way when SJW's ostracize people, or even when immigrants rape women.

Being obtuse is not a trait that can be rattached to a political view I'd say. Also, could I get a link to your IRC network ? I would love to debate rationally with someone disagreeing with me, I never met someone I coud do that with so far... I probably live in the wrong place for that though...
#RoL @ . The rational conservative there are myself, hounsell, and maelask, as well as rezedus and Jelle.

If you're talking about the opposition in Hungary, not really, but it's a young democracy. If you're talking about the EU, yes it is more democratic, the slowness of their actions (when they happen) coupled with their powerful economy is characteristic of a decentralised system.
No, the EU is not democratic at all, not with Germany imposing laws and policies onto all of Europe, and the US doing the same as well, through Germany. Come on, Joe Biden admitted he had to "twist the European countries' arms" to get the anti-Russian sanctions passed, and Tsipras outright admitted the EU was passing those sanctions in the names of all 28 member states, without actually asking any of them for their opinion. How on Earth is that democratic?

"Having balls" is certainly admirable, but the question is, is it useful ?
Considering it's that or become Germany's bitch, I'd say it is.

A group of leaders is certainly better than only one...
No. A country's final leader should be its own people, and people elected by the population to represent them, not external politicians.

Biological role. Not their role in present society. Moreover, no one should tell you what your aspirations in life have to be.
I agree, but then again, I agree with that on a much bigger scale too. Let me put it this way - no country should tell another country what their aspirations in life (read: laws and policies) have to be. You on the other hand agree with this principle only on a personal level but discard it completely on a national level.

True. It's at that point that voting comes in, and so far, the citizens seem to prefer to stay with the EU. Or at least they don't want to become the economic allies of Russia, memories of the soviet union are still too vivid.
I personally would prefer to stay in the EU, as I like Schengen, I find that the development and the way of life is better, and I like the international inspirations very much. (Just to say that this can be the result of a thought process, and not some shady backdoor tactic to piss of a group of people I wouldn't like.)
I like Schengen too, and I like the idea of EU, but I think it should be reformed into a simple trade union of sovereign states, and not the wannabe federal superstate it's aiming to be now. I like internationalism in its true meaning - exposing your country to the whole world by trading with the whole world, while having the whole world exposed in your country by equally presenting popular culture from all countries. Something that isn't happening - EU is alienating Russia, popular culture in the EU is predominantly a combination of local and Anglo-American, with everything else basically inexistent, and internationalism has been distorted into a wholesale replacement of the European population with immigrants. And that is what I say a resounding No, thanks! to.
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