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  #151  
Old 2013-01-15, 23:25
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A_LIPSTICK A_LIPSTICK is offline
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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
well, I've just learned that I'm a terrible human being, thank god I found out.
yw

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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
I don't know what kind of researches you guys are suggesting, but I'm pretty informed on this.
no you're not

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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
It's about bragging of their superiority, and how hot was the girl they raped. Raping a bad looking old woman would result as a shame to their masculinity.
I have my sources, I watched documentaries on this matter, I heard psychologists opinions on this, even what rapers had to say. There are girls who have been followed home and raped near their houses, because they were choosen because of how they acted in a disco event, or yes, how they were dressed. I'm not talking about one single episode, there are many like this.
complete and utter bullshit that you've neglected to source. you can start by reading this page, as you seem to be incredibly ill-informed.


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Do you keep your wallet out of other people's reach? Or do you place it in your back pocket at everyone's display? Do you lock your house before leaving, or do you leave its door open? You could forget it open, you could forget to place your wallet in a proper place, you don't want your stuff to be stolen, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.
And don't mix pedophiles with child molesters. They're not the same.
paedophile apologism aside, comparing rape to petty crime is an extremely shitty thing to do and undermines any point you had rather than strengthens it

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I find it weird that so many people don't share my point of view on this board, it's like a reverted mirror of what happens in my real life discussions.
wow your friends are shitlords too? who would have thought
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but that's what it is, the troll is a rapist
a soul rapist

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  #152  
Old 2013-01-15, 23:49
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Originally Posted by StreGGy View Post
It's clear that deserted places are the number one place, for obvious reasons, not a beach. I don't know what kind of researches you guys are suggesting, but I'm pretty informed on this. Usually the "lonely" raper doesn't care of the woman's appearences, but gangs do. It's about bragging of their superiority, and how hot was the girl they raped. Raping a bad looking old woman would result as a shame to their masculinity.
How about the girl that jumped onto a bus in central Delhi and was gangraped. Niether her location or dress would have suggested to any rational person that she was at risk of rape, yet she was. And it comes down to the simple fact that a group of sociopathic men who perhaps viewed her as a lesser bieng forcibly took advantage of her with not so much as an inkling of regard for her mental or physical well being.

Quote:
because they were choosen because of how they acted in a disco event, or yes, how they were dressed.
That's such outrageous bullshit. They were chosen because they were easy prey and the men who targetted them were worthless amoral scum.


Quote:
Do you keep your wallet out of other people's reach? Or do you place it in your back pocket at everyone's display? Do you lock your house before leaving, or do you leave its door open? You could forget it open, you could forget to place your wallet in a proper place, you don't want your stuff to be stolen, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.
Rape happens even in Saudi Arabia where only a womans eye's show under a burka. What do you say to that

Quote:
Deserted Alley X you get laughed at - "What did you expect?!". And honestly, that's what I think too.
The problem is that sometimes woman don't have an option to avoid areas with seedy men. Think of the favelas in Rio, war torn africa, refugee camps in Darfur.

But the men who commit these heinous crimes have a choice. They shouldn't be shown so much as an iota of mercy.

And the victim should never be blamed. How dare anyone man or woman on their high-horse blame someone who has just come out of a life changing ordeal. How dare they place even more on their shoulders after what they have already suffered?
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  #153  
Old 2013-01-15, 23:58
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Read that link Lipstick posted, it's interesting. It's main idea is that a rape isn't an act of sex, it's firstly and before anything else an act of violence.
So, the same way as a beating, rape can happen to anyone, anywhere, and it needs a motive, which is (according to the same site) rarely only sadistic. Most of the time it is for something personal.
No way to defend oneself against that by dressing differently... it sounds just stupid...
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  #154  
Old 2013-01-16, 00:52
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You can't accept someone else's point of view, can you? If someone has a different opinion than yours he's just stupid is it?

complete and utter bullshit that you've neglected to source. you can start by reading this page, as you seem to be incredibly ill-informed.

It saw it on TV and I searched for it on the internet without luck. It basically studied the rape phenomena in italy. Famous psychologists did this study, not only italians. It even showed that you can get raped for different motives depending on the country's culture and sociologic environment. You do realize that the study of the human mind is not a complete science, that a psychologist can say the exact opposite of another psychologist? I find it possible that dresses play a big role here. I'm not a molester or anything, but I like watching. Who do you think catches my eye in the street, a beautiful girl dressed pretty sexy or a simple one covering the nicer parts of her body? I'm a man, I feel sexually attracted by the sexier looking one. a male raper has a gender too.

paedophile apologism aside, comparing rape to petty crime is an extremely shitty thing to do and undermines any point you had rather than strengthens it.

My final sentence in my previous post should clearify that I was NOT comparing (and I stated it TWICE in my previous posts), that was just to explain the reason, and to answer Anakin's wallet exemple.

wow your friends are shitlords too? who would have thought

I didn't mention friends. You can discuss with people you know or you don't know. once again, read my final sentence again and again and again until you understand its full meaning. One word: Sociology.

How about the girl that jumped onto a bus in central Delhi and was gangraped. Niether her location or dress would have suggested to any rational person that she was at risk of rape, yet she was. And it comes down to the simple fact that a group of sociopathic men who perhaps viewed her as a lesser bieng forcibly took advantage of her with not so much as an inkling of regard for her mental or physical well being.


I wasn't being generical. I'm not saying that ALL girls get raped because of their dresses! My previous posts say that once again.

because they were choosen because of how they acted in a disco event, or yes, how they were dressed.

Once again, I wasn't generical. It can happen, it's not the main case, but it exists.

Rape happens even in Saudi Arabia where only a womans eye's show under a burka. What do you say to that

Same answer

The problem is that sometimes woman don't have an option to avoid areas with seedy men. Think of the favelas in Rio, war torn africa, refugee camps in Darfur.
That's true.


But the men who commit these heinous crimes have a choice. They shouldn't be shown so much as an iota of mercy.



That's generalysing. Once again, I previously stated that I am not justyfing rapers. But some mercy, I would give it to some particular cases. Again, from my previous post:
Take a man with mental disorders who's trying to get cured. A woman dressed like this in the street doesn't help him

And the victim should never be blamed. How dare anyone man or woman on their high-horse blame someone who has just come out of a life changing ordeal. How dare they place even more on their shoulders after what they have already suffered?


I give you a point there. The "what did you expect" part works with a car theft, not with a rape. I would never blame this to a victim. Even if it could be my opinion in that exact matter.

alipstick - I've been nice and gentle until now, too much it seems. I even gave you a reason to my way of thinking, but you don't want to understand. Opinions are like testicles, everyone has theirs - Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you. I'm happy to share points of view, but I'm not in the mood for a flamewar. Spare your rage for someone else, because that's my last reply to your offenses, which only deserve to be ignored. I doubt this can easily turn into a civil discussion, goodbye, I guess.
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  #155  
Old 2013-01-16, 01:18
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It saw it on TV and I searched for it on the internet without luck.
then you can say all you want if you can't find a source then you've got nothing.

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I'm not a molester or anything, but I like watching. Who do you think catches my eye in the street, a beautiful girl dressed pretty sexy or a simple one covering the nicer parts of her body? I'm a man, I feel sexually attracted by the sexier looking one. a male raper has a gender too.
ok first of all completely disregard everything everyone in this thread has posted.

secondly, be a huge creep.

2/2 well done!

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I didn't mention friends. You can discuss with people you know or you don't know. once again, read my final sentence again and again and again until you understand its full meaning. One word: Sociology.
i, too, discuss rape with random people irl

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I've been nice and gentle until now, too much it seems.


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Opinions are like testicles, everyone has theirs - Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you.
please don't show me your testicles.

also if opinions are like testicles, does that mean i don't have any?
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Opinions are like testicles, everyone has theirs - Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you.
Quote:
but that's what it is, the troll is a rapist
a soul rapist

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  #156  
Old 2013-01-16, 01:49
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also if opinions are like testicles, does that mean i don't have any?
Dont worry babe, my uncle promises me that you do indeed have testicles

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That's generalysing. Once again, I previously stated that I am not justyfing rapers. But some mercy, I would give it to some particular cases. Again, from my previous post:
Wtf, why? Aw, poor poor man, he was tempted...

Quote:
Take a man with mental disorders who's trying to get cured. A woman dressed like this in the street doesn't help him
All I hear is
"Take example A, which probably counts for a relatively negligible number of rapes, and use it to excuse a large chunk of rapes"

Considering the significant widespread proliferation of rape around the world, its safe to assume that the vast majority is committed by mentally and physically capable men, to whom the excuse of mental disorders would not apply.
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  #157  
Old 2013-01-16, 03:33
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"While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing." -- Theresa Bainer
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  #158  
Old 2013-01-16, 03:51
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"While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing." -- Theresa Bainer
+1 Mia
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  #159  
Old 2013-01-16, 08:08
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Take a man with mental disorders who's trying to get cured. A woman dressed like this in the street doesn't help him
I quoted that part of your reply because there, you're (I don't know if aware or not) putting the blame on the victim once again.

Does that mean women should cover their whole body cause there might be a mentally ill person who looks for exactly that kind of women on the streets?

And as stated several times, most of the rapist don't go after girls who dress slutty, cause it's not about sex, but domination.

So take that example axx gave, a women being rape in Saudi Arabia, is it less her fault than the girl who dressed slutty and got raped too?

Why? if they both got raped. Isn't that the only thing that matters, that they got raped?

A rapist can be mentally ill and in, his head, get turned on by women who have a green mohawk (I know it's a stupid example but it's an exageration to make my point), does that mean any women with a green mohawk are in certain way to blame because, after all, they were wearing a green mohawk?

I don't know if i'm making myself clear here, what I want to state is that if you think that girls that dress with less clothes, slutty, half-naked or what you wanna call it are in some way responsible of getting raped, then you should think that any women who gets raped is responsible for being abused, too, cause they had a quality that rapist are looking for, and that, to me and to any sane person I know, it's not fair.
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  #160  
Old 2013-01-16, 08:11
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take a man with mental disorders who's trying to get cured. A woman dressed like this in the street doesn't help him
omg roflmao

----
anyway stop being such a baby, your opinion isn't being rejected because it's "someone else's opinion", it's being rejected because you're not providing any sources and plus because it's fucking stupid.
what you're basically saying in that bit i quoted is that a woman who lives in a hot country with 40 degrees celsius of heat should still cover herself up completely, even at the cost of great discomfort, because otherwise she's being inconsiderate towards a person with mental disorders who might be passing by.

that's like telling a black person who was harassed by the police that he should have covered up his blackness, because police men don't like black people and walking like the street doesn't really help them!
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  #161  
Old 2013-01-16, 08:56
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Or, if the woman is partially to blame, then why is it that only the rapist gets imprisoned and the victim does not? I mean if the victim was at fault as well, then why doesn't she get jail time for dressing in a way which led to her being victimized?
Why doesn't the judge in court say to her, "you will do jail time as well because you put this man in a position to break the law."

Why doesn't she get in trouble as well? Because it was not her fault.

Yes, I know my example is a bit to the extreme, but the reason that only the rapist gets thrown in prison, and not the woman, is clearly because it is obviously only the man's fault.

All the rapist is looking for is an opportunity to rape. He doesn't give a damn in the word what she's wearing. If he sees an opportunity, he will take it. All he sees is a chance to dominate a female. Because underneath whatever she is wearing,(skirt, pants, whatever) is a vagina, and that is all he is thinking about.

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  #162  
Old 2013-01-16, 13:21
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All I hear is "Take example A, which probably counts for a relatively negligible number of rapes, and use it to excuse a large chunk of rapes"

Considering the significant widespread proliferation of rape around the world, its safe to assume that the vast majority is committed by mentally and physically capable men, to whom the excuse of mental disorders would not apply.
From Lipstick's link:
Myth Men who rape or sexually assault are mentally ill or monsters.
Fact Studies have indicated that as few as 5% of men are psychotic at the time of their crimes. Few convicted rapists are referred for psychiatric treatment.

Streggy, you are entitled to your opinion - your informed opinion. It doesn't seem like you are well-informed on this.
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  #163  
Old 2013-01-16, 15:43
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Note that the site doesn't give its sources for their "facts". I think giving sources in this conversation would be useless, as there are hundreds of sites and researchs contradicting eachother.
I think we can only argue theorytically, and not about actual facts...
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  #164  
Old 2013-01-16, 16:38
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As I said on the first page, I'm mostly a spectator here, but I feel compelled to mention my abhorrence at the victim blame going on in this thread (to say nothing for how far we've veered offtopic into ad hominem attacks and pigeon rape).

To avoid piling on, I'll start by noting that I get (on some level) Streggy's point that people should not knowingly place themselves in risky situations unless they accept that risk. If I park an expensive car in a high-crime neighborhood known for auto thefts, that's my own poor judgment. I assumed that risk by being a complete idiot. Fair enough.

That doesn't make it a good analogy to rape whatsoever. First of all, victim blaming is ridiculous. As others have pointed out, rapes happen in crowded places, at parties, in offices, in dark alleys, in parking garages. In others words: anywhere. Are there quote unquote "bad neighborhoods" (which I'll assume translates to high crime areas, most likely ethnically homogenous minorities) where your odds of crimes of all sorts, not just rape, goes up? Sure. While crime can be tied to socioeconomic factors, for example, crime can happen anywhere. But the idea that a woman in a skirt set off some primal urge and thus is the woman's fault is batshit insane. Axx pointed out the recent problem India is having with gang rapes/homicides on mass transits. To highlight how frivolous it is to analogize rape, how about the recent killings in New York City subways? Are we going to blame the victims who were pushed in front of trains because they took the subway?

Rapists are criminals. Sexual compulsives are not the same as rapists, and while not mutually exclusive, to portray rapists as uncontrollable mental cases who couldn't contain their lusts and were tempted by a bit of décolletage is basically burying ones head in the sand. IIRC sex crimes see the highest rates of recidivism out of all crimes, which in my opinion warrants considerable periods of incarceration without any opportunity for reincorporation into society.
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  #165  
Old 2013-01-16, 16:49
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ps the testicles comment was fucking hysterical. Sorry Streg.
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  #166  
Old 2013-01-16, 16:58
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ps the testicles comment was fucking hysterical. Sorry Streg.
It was humorous how he tied it in yeah, but you have to keep in mind that women dont have them.

He should have said instead, "Opinions are like nipples, everyone has theirs -Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you."
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  #167  
Old 2013-01-16, 17:36
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Note that the site doesn't give its sources for their "facts". I think giving sources in this conversation would be useless, as there are hundreds of sites and researchs contradicting eachother.
I think we can only argue theorytically, and not about actual facts...
yeah except for the pdfs full of research and statistics that you can download from the website. and that's just one website. there are many, many others.

we can't "only talk about this theoretically" as we're dealing with actual established facts here.

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It was humorous how he tied it in yeah, but you have to keep in mind that women dont have them.

He should have said instead, "Opinions are like nipples, everyone has theirs -Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you."
i don't want to see his nipples either
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Opinions are like testicles, everyone has theirs - Those are my opinions and I have no fear to show them to you.
Quote:
but that's what it is, the troll is a rapist
a soul rapist

- Link, 2013
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  #168  
Old 2013-01-16, 17:58
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yeah except for the pdfs full of research and statistics that you can download from the website. and that's just one website. there are many, many others.

we can't "only talk about this theoretically" as we're dealing with actual established facts here.
...sigh...
You'd think the entire subject of who's at fault would be clearly obvious.. the fact that the poor woman who just went through something so traumatizing would be blamed in the slightest by anyone is just sad.

Amirite?

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i don't want to see his nipples either
Lol I don't blame you ;3
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  #169  
Old 2013-01-16, 18:17
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...sigh...
You'd think the entire subject of who's at fault would be clearly obvious.. the fact that the poor woman who just went through something so traumatizing would be blamed in the slightest by anyone is just sad.

Amirite?
There are situations where this can become troublesome, such as the (hotly debated) marital rape, questions of consent, etc. so there is potential for gray areas. But in the examples so far, this isn't an issue.

Although slutwalk sounds completely ridiculous to me. That being said, nude women? I'll get my camp chair, pack a bag lunch and make a day of it.
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  #170  
Old 2013-01-16, 19:00
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There are situations where this can become troublesome, such as the (hotly debated) marital rape, questions of consent, etc. so there is potential for gray areas. But in the examples so far, this isn't an issue.
Agreed.

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Although slutwalk sounds completely ridiculous to me. That being said, nude women? I'll get my camp chair, pack a bag lunch and make a day of it.
Hmm.. mind if I join you?
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  #171  
Old 2013-01-16, 19:05
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Agreed.



Hmm.. mind if I join you?
Only if you bring Polish goodies.
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  #172  
Old 2013-01-16, 19:41
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Hmm.. mind if I join you?
You like looking at nude women or like being with a male while doing so ?
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  #173  
Old 2013-01-16, 19:45
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You like looking at nude women or like being with a male while doing so ?
Either way, what bliss.
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  #174  
Old 2013-01-16, 19:54
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You like looking at nude women or like being with a male while doing so ?
Both

And yeah, JJ ill bring some polish goodies.
Oh! And some tootsie rolls
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  #175  
Old 2013-01-16, 20:00
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Both

And yeah, JJ ill bring some polish goodies.
Oh! And some tootsie rolls
I'll bring the Jaffa Cakes.
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