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  #126  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:11
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Polaris Polaris is offline
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
he became the thing he sought to destroy..

nice line
Eh, trying to be somewhat light-hearted, but didn't manage to I guess :/

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Originally Posted by Reek View Post
nothing says "fair exchange of ideas" like adding half of the thread's participants to your ignore list


Btw, he's right in some things, kudos to you Jesse, you're a great mod.
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  #127  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:12
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Once you've said you're not here to debate, what are we supposed to do ? You bring in stuff, we respond, then you go "Oh, but I'm not here for that"... It is maddening, and when people get mad after that, you just block them...

You have become the very thing you sought to destroy

Also, sorry about my attachment, but really, it's what you're doing, and I have no way of conveying that to you, and it makes me sad
Look polly, your posts here have become just increasingly tiresome. Unlike those other 2 guys thou, you are a nice guy so I haven't blocked you, but, really? there's not a single post from you that makes sense in this apocalypse thread. Each long, carefully thought out reply to you I gave you was absolutely, 100% useless, which did not resonate in you at all.

You are the one who is maddening to yourself repeating your own mantra of "I am worried about you, snap out of it!!!" over and over in each post, instead of just plainly stating your thoughts or commenting on mine.

You said: "We respond"? You call this a response?

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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
SGK, as far as I'm concerned, my problem isn't with what you believe. What's worrying is that you're convinced it's a conclusion you came to via logic and sound reasoning.

But you did not
What response is there? "but you did not"? wOooah extremely revealing comeback, sir. I am surprised at your wondrous reasoning there, you really got me! Somebody give a Nobel prize to this man.

And "You have become the very thing you sought to destroy" doesn't make any sense. What am I trying to destroy? who said I am trying to destroy anything? I just fucking said its about an exchange of ideas and you even quoted that, so what are you on about, always trying to pose me as raving lunatic, some kind of fanatical? And how did I "become" that? you don't make any sense, and each new post makes less sense. Please just stop.
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  #128  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:18
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Eh, trying to be somewhat light-hearted, but didn't manage to I guess :/
Light-hearted in continually dismissing the topics to keep coming back to "OH NOES I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOU SGKK... PLEASE..." cries for help? please, just step aside or bring something useful.
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  #129  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:22
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Also, sorry about my attachment, but really, it's what you're doing, and I have no way of conveying that to you, and it makes me sad
Stop drowning in self-pity, live up to your words and write something useful. You are not conveying anything at the moment.
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  #130  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:28
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"You have become the very thing you sought to destroy" Was supposed to be a joke, your last message could've been posted by a lambda troll, and I know how much you dislike trolls.

And yes, I call that a response. I've argued with you for months, and each time I've said something or argued, you've dismissed it. Sometimes you didn't respond, at better times trying to show something else, at worst, calling me naive or refusing to respond for any other reason...

And almost everytime you show me something, either there were deep problems with what it stated, or it simply contradicted about three previous things you said and vouched for two minutes before.
And stating that to you didn't do much either, as although you might have responded to interpretations, you never said anything when I pointed out blatant contradictions.

At this point, only one explanation remains. You are not here to debate, you are not here to discuss.
You are here, because you want someone to tell you that you are right.
And not only I cannot do that, but I've seen what apathy is doing in Hungary, and even people opposing the government came to accept its discourse.

As such, I will tell you that you are wrong. Not because of what you defend, but because of why you're accepting it. And I know that you will not believe and won't even give it a second thought. Maybe we've known each other for several years, but we don't have the kind of relationship where we could put that much faith in other (yet, hopefully).

But I will still tell you that your thought process is deeply flawed, in the most respectful way I will manage to, and I will just hope, that one day, one day maybe, for any reason, you will think about what I said and maybe reflect upon it. Not accept it as is, not change your views, but just reflect upon it.

When I say take care of yourself, I mean it.
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  #131  
Old 2021-02-02, 18:57
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
... Just promise me you won't die getting shot while trying to storm a governmental building, thinking you're saving lives...
This may sound like I'm making fun of you, (okay, maybe I am a little bit,) but really, I'm just worried about you
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Frankly SGK, I'm just worried about you...

In the few months I've been chatting with you, I saw your view shift again and again on this matter to accommodate what would be a problem, without you even realizing it (the virus doesn't exist - the virus exists, but is dangerless - the virus was created - ten thousands are dying from the virus, but only others infect them on purpose)...

You keep referring to your stance as "wake" without ever considering that other point of views are the results of a thought process as well, and not something taken at face value.

Your eagerness to prove to, or convince others at all costs seems to indicate that this is some personal issue you have with the situation, and it seems corroborated with what you say about Wars and the Truth. You're knee-deep in this thing not by logic, bu belief, and are ready to stay in regardless of what you are shown. Whatever anyone says or presents you apparently only proves you're right. Heck, you yourself said, there would be absolutely no way to make you consider this as a genuine pandemic

I'm not saying this to harm you or piss you off, I am genuinely worried, and hope the day someone decides to cash in on your beliefs, you will not pay.
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The world just witnessed someone who, in the span of four years, abandoned most of their attachment to reality, sunk deeper and deeper into this stuff until the point where she flew hours away from her home to be gunned down by the police while thinking she was fighting an organised pedophile ring.

And all that her family and friends could say sounds scarily like what the family of terrorist usually say after they've bombed themselves up, "They never were like that" "We really don't understand" "True, they were talking a lot more about religion than before".

People give up their critical thinking and everything that acts as a mental shield, go deeper and deeper in their beliefs until loosing all grip to reality. And since this isn't something that rests on anything rational, it is absolutely impossible to reason them out of it.
I just hope that if it happens to one of my friends or family members, I'll know how to pull them out of it.

Of course I fucking worry about you SGK.
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
SGK, as far as I'm concerned, my problem isn't with what you believe. What's worrying is that you're convinced it's a conclusion you came to via logic and sound reasoning.

But you did not
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
???

Once you've said you're not here to debate, what are we supposed to do ? You bring in stuff, we respond, then you go "Oh, but I'm not here for that"... It is maddening, and when people get mad after that, you just block them...

You have become the very thing you sought to destroy

Also, sorry about my attachment, but really, it's what you're doing, and I have no way of conveying that to you, and it makes me sad
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
"You have become the very thing you sought to destroy" Was supposed to be a joke, your last message could've been posted by a lambda troll, and I know how much you dislike trolls.

And yes, I call that a response. I've argued with you for months, and each time I've said something or argued, you've dismissed it. Sometimes you didn't respond, at better times trying to show something else, at worst, calling me naive or refusing to respond for any other reason...

And almost everytime you show me something, either there were deep problems with what it stated, or it simply contradicted about three previous things you said and vouched for two minutes before.
And stating that to you didn't do much either, as although you might have responded to interpretations, you never said anything when I pointed out blatant contradictions.

At this point, only one explanation remains. You are not here to debate, you are not here to discuss.
You are here, because you want someone to tell you that you are right.
And not only I cannot do that, but I've seen what apathy is doing in Hungary, and even people opposing the government came to accept its discourse.

As such, I will tell you that you are wrong. Not because of what you defend, but because of why you're accepting it. And I know that you will not believe and won't even give it a second thought. Maybe we've known each other for several years, but we don't have the kind of relationship where we could put that much faith in other (yet, hopefully).

But I will still tell you that your thought process is deeply flawed, in the most respectful way I will manage to, and I will just hope, that one day, one day maybe, for any reason, you will think about what I said and maybe reflect upon it. Not accept it as is, not change your views, but just reflect upon it.

When I say take care of yourself, I mean it.
And voila, you did it again. Bravo!
Do you see a pattern here in all of your posts?
Is this why you're polly the parrot, you just keep parroting yourself?
I don't see anything else here except you talking from a moral high ground, from your high horse while presenting no evidences, no ideas of your own, no contrary thoughts based on anything that was said, no actual responses to anything, just a series of empty statements about "how flawed you are, and I worry about you".

You seem very much concerned about me, but have you looked into yourself and how your posts here contribute 0% to the discussion? Think about that.
Whereas I wrote like an essay worth of lengthy personalized responses to everything that was said in two major posts in the previous page.

And why do you keep bringing up stuff from private chats, don't you realize they have nothing to do with mbn?
And even if they did, which would never be the case, but if they did, your statements are just not true, I fought and fought and fought with you until I simply gave up. It's useless. Plain useless. There were no contradictions and its the same thing that happened in this forum: I give you responses, adressing all your questions; and what you do? you go wacking about "you're deep into this, you're wrong, I worry for you" without a word regarding the contents of my message.

So that makes one more to the ignore list, because honestly, none of you seem to have any grasp of what EXCHANGE of IDEAS mean and I am fed up of this drama, wasting my time reading vain statements about me that mean absolutely nothing. I see no exchange here of any ideas in the posts above quoted. There is nothing being exchanged. For those of you I have blocked, you did much the same, you just attack a random, cloudy idea of beliefs or enter the "who wants to be right" argument or invoke the sanity card. I am sorry if your grasp of english is not good enough to understand everything I wrote. Or to understand the basic concept of an exchange of ideas, meaning: nobody needs to be right or wrong.

Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2021-02-02 at 19:46.
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  #132  
Old 2021-02-02, 20:02
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Meanwhile we are going to have the problem that nothing is hold sacred anymore. I meant, one truthworthy source that we all agree to trust. Aside nazi propaganda being a good example of how that can be misused, I wonder what the implications of all these conspiracytheorists are going to be.
Not meaning anyone here, but lets say a LOT of people are smack into all conspiracy theories or completely not into them. Lets say for statistical likelyhood one theory is going to be true, this means they will Just say told you so. Sadly most people are quite black and white about it.

But aside who is right or wrong, it is a very large number of people now already. I wonder what this lack of underlying common sense of what is truth will do. Divide us for sure, but will it just be another bubble or will it have deeper consequences?

People believe our prime minister is a satanist pedophile (pizzagate). It goes rather far. That is something else than doubting climate change
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  #133  
Old 2021-02-02, 20:09
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No shit there's a pattern, it's what I think -_-
Also, I never said anything bad about you, please stop making fun of me

We can exchange ideas, of course, but last time we did, it just pissed you off...

1 : Who is "them" ? I've asked you this already, you always failed to answer. Who or what is this huge association that wants to do... What exactly ? And to what end ? Control us okay, but to what end ?

2 : COVID in and of itself isn't deadly, maybe, I don't know. But then again, nobody died of AIDS. If people die from sicknesses that got amplified due to COVID, then what's the difference ? And maybe few people die of COVID, but they still fill up the hospitals, they need to be treated to live, and the hospitals won't be able to hold out for long (as the doctor speaking in front of congress said in the video you posted), especially if we want to heal all the other injuries and sicknesses.

3 : I am sick of the lockdowns, the curfews, and the closed borders. It goes against human rights, and for such a heavy decisions, they were triggered very easily, all the while, there are alternative solutions (as seen in Japan or Korea). That being said, this together with the inconsistency the various governments and organisations have displayed, there is still nothing indicating that it would have been done on purpose, or that politicians with a long-running animosity going against their interests suddenly found a way to all agree on the same lie. I just don't see it happening, and nothing from what you posted would support such a thing.


Jesse : And deepfakes haven't even started being used for ideological aims
Did people use to be less divided before ? It's easy to think things are getting worse, but I mean, there used to be a cold war
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Last edited by Polaris; 2021-02-03 at 01:48.
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  #134  
Old 2021-02-02, 22:56
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post

2 : COVID in and of itself isn't deadly, maybe, I don't know. But then again, nobody died of AIDS. If people die from sicknesses that got amplified due to COVID, then what's the difference ? And maybe few people die of COVID, but they still fill up the hospitals, they need to be treated to live, and the hospitals won't be able to hold out for long (as the doctor speaking in front of congress said in the video you posted), especially if we want to heal all the other injuries and sicknesses.
wait, what? where are you getting that from? afaik it's not at all analogous to AIDS. you die from covid, not from some other disease facilitated by it. i could be wrong here so feel free to step in, anyone who knows more.

as for how deadly it is, it's relative of course but it's easily more than 20 times as deadly as the flu, that's just basic math
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #135  
Old 2021-02-03, 01:20
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It's one of the arguments of people trying to minimise COVID's seriousness. In the official Hungarian COVID website where all the deads are listed, they write next to each of them that their health state was deteriorated anyways (diabetes, weak heart...).
It was also the main point a guy in a youtube video that SGK sent me.
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  #136  
Old 2021-02-03, 01:25
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
Meanwhile we are going to have the problem that nothing is hold sacred anymore. I meant, one truthworthy source that we all agree to trust. Aside nazi propaganda being a good example of how that can be misused, I wonder what the implications of all these conspiracytheorists are going to be.
Not meaning anyone here, but lets say a LOT of people are smack into all conspiracy theories or completely not into them. Lets say for statistical likelyhood one theory is going to be true, this means they will Just say told you so. Sadly most people are quite black and white about it.

But aside who is right or wrong, it is a very large number of people now already. I wonder what this lack of underlying common sense of what is truth will do. Divide us for sure, but will it just be another bubble or will it have deeper consequences?
True. I think we're yet to see a great divide. And then a slow 'fade-in' of discernment into gray areas until we all reach a common ground.
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A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
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Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2021-02-03 at 01:31.
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  #137  
Old 2021-02-03, 01:37
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Wow, that's a weird experience...
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  #138  
Old 2021-02-03, 01:53
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It's one of the arguments of people trying to minimise COVID's seriousness. In the official Hungarian COVID website where all the deads are listed, they write next to each of them that their health state was deteriorated anyways (diabetes, weak heart...).
It was also the main point a guy in a youtube video that SGK sent me.
well yeah but underlying diseases making you more susceptible to covid isn't the same as covid not being the reason you died. but it's not surprising that sgk shared a video full of misinformation, for people like him there always has to be some conspiracy
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #139  
Old 2021-02-03, 02:01
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Yeah, yeah...


I'm oscillating between anger, because I feel like he kinda lied to me, saying he would like to talk, then blocking me for speaking my mind, and just feeling sad, because all this really wasn't worth it...

You once called me wishy-washy, Reek (among other things ), I think I was/am like that to avoid these kind of situations...
Of course, I can live the rest of my whole life without ever speaking to SGK again, but you know... just... what a waste, in general :/
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  #140  
Old 2021-02-03, 02:18
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
Please keep it respectful, attack the opinion or idea all you want, but not the person.
But what if the real heart of the issue is a person’s mental state and their susceptibility to misinformation and conspiratorial thinking?

This can’t be an attack since he has stated that he can’t even see my posts anymore.

Also Jesse, you are one of the only people I have heard make a reasonable personal argument for uncertainty about the new vaccines. We’re breaking new ground and that kind of thing is never unleashed on the majority of the population after such a short period of time. Personally, I will take the vaccine when I get the chance and I don’t expect that you’re about to try and stop me. I’m certainly not going to judge you for not wanting to take it for the reasons you’ve outlined. If you were telling me you didn’t want to take it because you think that Bill Gates is trying to sterilize you I’d tell you to shut the fuck up and get the jab.
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  #141  
Old 2021-02-03, 02:35
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Lol, at least I'm not the only one who's pissed-off
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  #142  
Old 2021-02-03, 10:27
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Yeah, yeah...


I'm oscillating between anger, because I feel like he kinda lied to me, saying he would like to talk, then blocking me for speaking my mind, and just feeling sad, because all this really wasn't worth it...

You once called me wishy-washy, Reek (among other things ), I think I was/am like that to avoid these kind of situations...
Of course, I can live the rest of my whole life without ever speaking to SGK again, but you know... just... what a waste, in general :/
well he puts you in the impossible position where you have to agree with his, shall we say, illogical positions or at least take his sources seriously (even though they mostly seem to be just videos made by random people with no knowledge on the subject making crazy claims) or you're his enemy and he blocks you.

i was being a dick to him in this thread because frankly i've always had an intense, almost overwhelming dislike for him but i was surprised at the way he treated you here
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #143  
Old 2021-02-03, 13:54
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Thanks for your input, helps put things in perspective kinda.

Also, this thread prompted as signature change ?
Not bad, I think I still prefer the previous one, shorter, more powerful
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  #144  
Old 2021-02-03, 15:45
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Originally Posted by DedalousDiggle View Post
But what if the real heart of the issue is a person’s mental state and their susceptibility to misinformation and conspiratorial thinking?

This can’t be an attack since he has stated that he can’t even see my posts anymore.

Also Jesse, you are one of the only people I have heard make a reasonable personal argument for uncertainty about the new vaccines. We’re breaking new ground and that kind of thing is never unleashed on the majority of the population after such a short period of time. Personally, I will take the vaccine when I get the chance and I don’t expect that you’re about to try and stop me. I’m certainly not going to judge you for not wanting to take it for the reasons you’ve outlined. If you were telling me you didn’t want to take it because you think that Bill Gates is trying to sterilize you I’d tell you to shut the fuck up and get the jab.
As the amount of people believing conspiracy theories now seem to be about 40% vs 60% (or it is just people around me), I don't think you can say they all more or less have a certain 'mental condition', if that is what you are implying here. Even though I can understand that at times I too think people are lunatic. But it is a bit like earlier in 2012, when we had some heated discussions: I prefer if a forum is more or less free speech, and that you can share your ideas.

You should be able to say something that fully expresses your disdain for what is being said, but I would draw the line if it is about the person himself, however you may feel tempted.

On a side note, we all are on this forum more than 10 years and we all have become characters, I prefer not having to ban anyone if we can prevent it.
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  #145  
Old 2021-02-03, 19:06
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Jesse,
The very existence of fact checkers imply that there is an "underground" group of "conspiracy theorists" constantly creating new shocking material with the sole intent of spreading "fake ideas and fake news" onto the world, relentlessly, day after day, without any clear profit they make from doing that, without ever showing us what these so-called 'fake' content creators have to gain by doing it. And this is the idea which I find absolutely laughable.
I don't think anyone is saying that there is an underground of people creating fake news.
It's pretty easy to create fake news, you juste have to be ignorant about a subject and propagate your ideas before fact-checking them.
That's why they're so popular, because a lot of people might think "hey, that's what I think too!". But it doesn't make them true, right?

I think that's one of the greatest challenge of this century, teaching people how to fact-check information. People are not taught this at school and they will never self-educate them on the subject.

I don't blame you, SGK, for believing these conspiracy theories. A lot of my family and friends also believe in some of them (#DrRaoultForEver), partially because they didn't take the time to check the sources behind a video.
Once you're part of a chain of misinformation, it's easy to stay closed to outside sources. You will only read or see information which confirms your beliefs.

Even though you know about this, it's very hard to change your habits. I'm trying to change sometimes of sources, read other media, etc, but I'm also highly influenced by the ones I read the most. I think that's normal human behavior.

Unfortunately, at the age of the Internet, where everyone can share their ideas, a lot of untrustworthy content is produced, and the more shocking it is, the more it will be shared over the social media. Again, it doesn't make them true.

My problem here, SGK, is that some people shared with you some elements of information, or ideas, that you simply ignore
(https://forum.magicball.net/showpost...3&postcount=66
https://forum.magicball.net/showpost...1&postcount=85 for example)
which, I think you would agree, is not even your own policy.
Indeed, you're constantly reminding people that you're here to share your clues, hints and whatnots.

I'm simply going to reply on the video you shared about scientific "data" pointing that lockdowns are not efficient.
I'm tired of people using the Swedish example as a reference. I think they even moved to lockdown in mid-january so...
The non-lockdown of Sweden was working fine for a while but the second wave really hit them hard enough that they consider one, I guess.
Just look at the stats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...tes_by_country
The number of death per 100000 in Sweden is close to that of France for example, which is one of the most touristic place on Earth and far more dense that Sweden (in terms of population) .
Compare the deaths in Sweden to that of Norway or Denmark and you will see that they did pretty bad in comparison...

On the idea of lockdown being a disaster for economy compare to no-lockdown, I will just say this: the dead don't get rich.

Finally, as people noticed before, you're all in for free speech and you're blocking people?
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  #146  
Old 2021-02-03, 19:49
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
As the amount of people believing conspiracy theories now seem to be about 40% vs 60% (or it is just people around me), I don't think you can say they all more or less have a certain 'mental condition', if that is what you are implying here.
Given the sprawling amount of sources I see the world over, that proportion is quite accurate and is a number that constantly grows. It will reach 50/50% I think as we near the totalitarian state, becoming a great divide (the gap between the two will become more and more evident). More and more people around us are going to start talking about similar things I have mentioned here!
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  #147  
Old 2021-02-03, 19:52
Hin Hin is offline
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
This is not at all what happened.
Then please, tell me. What happened?
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  #148  
Old 2021-02-03, 19:57
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Originally Posted by Hin View Post
I don't think

(...)

Finally, as people noticed before, you're all in for free speech and you're blocking people?


Suit yourself.
This is not at all what happened. It seems, like many here, you didn't even bother to read everything I wrote, since you advise me to do the very thing I advised others to do. As such, I can't be bothered either, to sit down and argue with you only for you to turn out to be like certain other members here who only seek to mock, ridicule and debunk things. Believe what you will, if that makes you happy.

I came here to spread the seed, and that job is done.

Peace.
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A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
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  #149  
Old 2021-02-03, 19:58
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Originally Posted by Hin View Post
Then please, tell me. What happened?
Nah, too long bro.
There are 2 huge posts of mine on the previous page if you care for what I think.
Those already took me a hell lot of time to write, and I still wonder if it was any worth the effort.
If you don't care, then don't bother reading and be happy.
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  #150  
Old 2021-02-03, 20:05
Hin Hin is offline
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Well, actually I read this thread from the first page, read all your (very) long posts and click most of your links. Don't tell me what I did bother or not, please

Concerning the 'seed', well sorry but it didn't grow in my garden. Still trying to plant seeds of my own (like fact-checking), but it seems you're not interested in buying...
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