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  #51  
Old 2006-12-11, 17:21
Lightwing Lightwing is offline
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*remembers Agartha and Trium Planeta*
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  #52  
Old 2006-12-11, 17:35
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Wii Big Adventure?

*edit*

Arg...please dont mention Agartha, im still praying someone somewhere leaks the source code...
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  #53  
Old 2006-12-11, 18:50
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* El_Muerte still hopes for an action\adventure game
and not a gimmick game
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  #54  
Old 2006-12-11, 21:30
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Action Adventure games cost the most to get right, unfortuntely.
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  #55  
Old 2006-12-11, 21:40
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The dude said it's going to be something initiative... So maybe something more like Darwinia than an action adventure game.
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  #56  
Old 2006-12-11, 21:46
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maybe indeed.
Darwinia was a fine game imo.
Even discounting the not-always-working gestures, it had many nice ideas and a kick-arse TRON look to it.
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  #57  
Old 2006-12-11, 21:52
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so action\adventure games can't be innovative? that's really bullshit.
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  #58  
Old 2006-12-11, 21:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte View Post
so action\adventure games can't be innovative? that's really bullshit.
It can be innovative, but not REALLY innovative. Because it's still restricted within an existing genre.
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  #59  
Old 2006-12-11, 22:16
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I completely disagree with that.
It's not that games like Spore or Darwinia are super innovative, it's just some small parts.

Just because you can't think of any innovative things doesn't mean they don't exist.
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  #60  
Old 2006-12-11, 22:20
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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The ultimate innovativity would be something you won't be able to include within (or restrict to) any existing genre, imo.
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  #61  
Old 2006-12-11, 22:42
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Spore IS super innovative, you havnt seen enough of it if you dont think that.

Darwinia was innovative for a RTS game, which, frankly, are some of the least inventive games. (dispite that, I like them ).

But overall, Ell is right, Adventure games can be the most inventive possible.
You only have to look at nintendos Zelda series to see hundreds of innovations.

In fact, in many ways, the adventure genra IS innovation by definition.
Every other genra basicaly has the same task repeated.

The adventure game genra is all about changeing tasks, your constantly doing new things. A good adventure game is the least repedative type of game possible.
Thats why they are so expensive to make, but also why they are so kick-arse
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  #62  
Old 2006-12-11, 22:53
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Hmm... ok, now that you put it that way - Action Adventure isn't a genre!
If the definition of Action Adventure is any game where you play a character in a more-or-less realistic environment with a more-or-less realistic purpose, then it's not restrictive enough to be called a genre.
We might as well change the name from "Action Adventure" to "realism".
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  #63  
Old 2006-12-11, 23:01
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not at all.
Beyond Good and Evil is hardly realism, and neither is the wind waker.
Scrapland is also pretty far off.
Its certainly the least regid of genra's, could be viewed as a meta-genra, in fact.

A good discription of an adventure game is, purhapes, merely one where you have a set task to do, and a free roaming world in which to do it.
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  #64  
Old 2006-12-11, 23:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
A good discription of an adventure game is, purhapes, merely one where you have a set task to do, and a free roaming world in which to do it.
Yeah, like in reality.

I meant "realism" relatively, like it's not realistic to have a world populated by pigmen, that's surrealism. Surrealism is still under "realistic" because it is restricted to the most basic terms in our brains which define reality.
You could never mistake Super Mario for reality, but you could eventually mistake Legend Of Zelda for reality. Even if both are 3D, Legend of Zelda still has some respect to the laws of physics.
You can then say Fifa 2007 is also realistic, but the only purpose is to win a ball game, so there goes the "free" part.
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  #65  
Old 2006-12-11, 23:29
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Spore combines ideas from quite some games into one a single game. For example Creatures and Populus.
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  #66  
Old 2006-12-11, 23:33
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Lost combines almost all existing genres into one (amazing) tv show, and adds quite a few innovative ideas of it's own.
You can't just say Lost belongs to a genre.
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  #67  
Old 2006-12-12, 00:32
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Action/Adventures are hard to get right mainly due to the amount and difference in gameplay. During level design, you have to balance action elements (shooting, fighting, sneaking) with adventure (dialogue options, inventory items, puzzles). Sure, lots of games have differentiating gameplay elements, but action and adventure are vastly different in terms of psychology for the player. On one hand you have people that love to kill stuff and others who like conversations&puzzles. Firstly, it's hard to create a level that merges the two elements seamlessly (a sign of a good action/adventure game). Secondly, it's difficult to combine the two elements in such a way that the result will appeal to both adventure and action gamers alike.
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  #68  
Old 2006-12-12, 01:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte View Post
Spore combines ideas from quite some games into one a single game. For example Creatures and Populus.
That only scratchs the surface.

What other game lets you design a creature, from scratch, with any number of legs or limbs?
What other game *works out how this creature should move*, and then animates it smoothly doing so?
What other game uses procedral textures on custom creatures to make sure they are textured logicaly according to where their limbs are, as well as keeping file sizes small enough to send? (in order to seamlessly fill gaps in other players eco-system)

What other game lets you have dna for mutations as a reward for progressing or fighting, letting you mutate and develop your creature more?

What other game lets you fly to other planets and abduct creatures, or too completely teraform a world of your own design? (for that mater, what other game puts your planet in a universe of other players, but still existing seperately in terms of interaction with their planets...eg, a multiverse situation)

Sure, Spore takes elements from the "God game" genra.
But it is still mind-blowingly original, and isnt merely a combination of previous games.

Quote:
You could never mistake Super Mario for reality, but you could eventually mistake Legend Of Zelda for reality. Even if both are 3D, Legend of Zelda still has some respect to the laws of physics.
Well, Zelda is all about physics, true..in some ways its the heart of the game.
Scrapland or BG&E dont obay known physics, but they still aboy their own.

However, Mario respects its own physics very well indeed too.
You cant really use that as a seperation.
Mario64, the main difference is, that the world is designed around your tasks and that almost all of them come down to timed jumps and motions.
Its mostly a jumping game...mostly a platformer.

But it can still have a real world.
Ever played "Paper Mario" ?
Very rich world, especialy the sequal. It seems like a reality obay its own twisted, but fixed rules.
In this case its the RPG genra, because its mostly about battles and leveling...with a touch of puzzles and platforming mixed it

Theres many other rpg's too that have rich realistic worlds, but they cant really be called adventures because the gameplay is based around a cycle of battles..

Quote:
You can't just say Lost belongs to a genre.
Sci-fi drama.
Sci-fi drives the show forward, but micro-scale problems are traditional drama.
Theres nothing bad about fitting into a genra, imo.
Nothing is ever pure, but we call something a genra when the majority of it fits one style.
Now "drama" is a stupidly big style that dictates pacing rather thne content, and sci-fi is one that puts the overall universe rules in place (stuff that might well be explainable by science, even if we dont know it).
Together lots fits that discription imo
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  #69  
Old 2006-12-12, 01:32
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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How many genres are there and which of them aren't Lost?
Drama, Sci-Fi/Fantasy, mystery, Action, Horror, Crime...
Lost is even a comedy sometimes (Hurley's back stories?). But it isn't a musical or a documentary.


Turn based RPG's aren't really "action adventure" because turn based isn't realistic
RPG's like Oblivion can actually fit within the action-adventure genre, that would just be a non-linear action-adventure.
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  #70  
Old 2006-12-12, 03:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Turn based RPG's aren't really "action adventure" because turn based isn't realistic
RPG's like Oblivion can actually fit within the action-adventure genre, that would just be a non-linear action-adventure.
Two pointers:
1 -- A turn based RPG can't be an action/adventure for the sole reason that it's an RPG. If, though, for example, the combat in LBA was turn based, it'd still be an action/adventure. Action/Adventures don't have to be real-time.

2. I would say that Oblivion is too action oriented to be considered anywhere near the Adventure realm. Heck, Deus Ex has more adventure gaming elements and I wouldn't call it an A/A hybrid. The only game I've played that was labeled "RPG" and I could very well consider it an A/A, is Septerra Core. And that's because that game in addition to turn-based RPG combat, had some pretty hardcore puzzles involving inventory items.
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  #71  
Old 2006-12-12, 03:32
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(Another thread that should be split...)

Let's get to the bottom of the definitions of genres...

Role playing game means you are playing a role. In a game. It can be action adventure if they make it realistic and without things like turn base.

But originally, a 'real' RPG is never against the computer, the whole idea RPG is playing roles with other human beings... In the computer game industry they just screwed up the definition.
As if RPG means "having stats of health and skills and things and fighting mythological creatures in a LOTR or D&D like world".

Action adventure means you have a realistic (or surrealistic) world which in you can move (more or less) freely, usually with the addition of a goal.

Can you define it better?
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  #72  
Old 2006-12-12, 04:13
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RPG definition is screwed up, but its always about developing a charecter, either your own (western, Buldars Gate ect), or precreated (Final Fantasy ect).
Its useless to use "role playing" at all as a deffinition, as dispite it being part of the name, it applys to everything

As for define it better, I believe I did when I said:
Quote:
A good discription of an adventure game is, purhapes, merely one where you have a set task to do, and a free roaming world in which to do it.

Purhapes Id change it to say "..a set task to do, using various methods, in a few roaming world...".
As the more I think about it, the more its the varience that makes an adventure.

And thats why Freds next game should either be a nice adventure, OR, if the budget dosnt allow, aiming for something lower.
A low-budget action adventure would just be botched.


Quote:
How many genres are there and which of them aren't Lost?
Drama, Sci-Fi/Fantasy, mystery, Action, Horror, Crime...
Lost is even a comedy sometimes (Hurley's back stories?). But it isn't a musical or a documentary.
A genra is the majority, not the absolute.
Everything as mysterys and elements of comady. Most things have a crime, and most sci-fis have horror elements.
Imo, Drama/Sci-fi fits best as they are the two main elements.
And main dosnt really mean most-common, more "important".
Season2 was driven by the Hatch plot...which was sci-fi....but the sci-fi elements wernt on screen much at all.
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  #73  
Old 2006-12-12, 04:40
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I don't think the hatch plot was sci-fi. Actually, Lost is so special I'm not even sure you can call anything there sci-fi. Unless you decide "sci-fi" and "fantasy" are actually the same genre like I did, then Lost is indeed "sci-fi/fantasy".
And "drama" is just not suitable, it's a lot more than just drama, it's anagrams and thought-provoking metaphors and basically... Lost doesn't belong to any genre, it's just not fitting anywhere, there's no 2 major genres, Drama and SciFi were maybe the major genres for you subjectively, while for me the majority was something else.

I think genres in general are restrictive and bad. Art can't be categorized by genres.
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  #74  
Old 2006-12-12, 08:31
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RPG is a spinoff of Action\Adventure, just like survival horror:

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  #75  
Old 2006-12-12, 16:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte View Post
RPG is a spinoff of Action\Adventure, just like survival horror:
Ahem.. *cough* *cough*
My dear El Duffo O Muerte.

Are you at all serious with that claim? If you are, my trust in your mighty beverage has disappeared and I will go for something more casual instead. Like plain and simple Duff. Ha!

RPG is definetly not, I repeat NOT, a sub-genre/spinoff to Action-adventure.
Infact, to be fair in this case, we should call them CRPG's.. and it's an entire genre of its own, having nothing at all to do with Action-adventure.

However, there are games that try to blend CRPG elements with Action-adventure elements and whatnot, with various degrees of success.

If you really feel like fitting somekind of RPG related sub-genre into the Action-adventure genre, please use the sub-genre/spinoff called Action role-playing game.
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Last edited by Homeless; 2006-12-12 at 16:54.
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