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  #1  
Old 2010-01-13, 14:22
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Large scale cyber-attacks from China targeting emails of Human rights workers

Google's reporting on their blog they had an attack on their servers, an apparent attempt to gain access to emails of human rights workers;

Quote:
In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.

First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.

Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.

Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.
Pretty scary stuff really.
Full post here; http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/...-to-china.html

Google's considering withdrawing from China autogether due to this.
(They also say they arnt happy with the censorship they have to do, but that's unlikely to be on physiological grounds seeing as plenty of western country's also require censorship from search engines)

Its important to note google dont even run gmail in china, this is an attack from china trying to look at worldwide email accounts.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2010-01-13 at 18:12.
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  #2  
Old 2010-01-13, 17:46
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Huh. Makes sense, now that I think of that, for intelligence units to try and hack Gmail.
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  #3  
Old 2010-01-13, 19:54
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And it stoped making sense why the US military is not letting the civilians move to better encryption algorithms...

On second thoughts, it never did...
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  #4  
Old 2010-01-13, 21:23
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What? There's a law against encrypting stuff?
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  #5  
Old 2010-01-13, 22:48
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Beyond and certain level and without a backdoor, yes.
In some country's anyway.

Oh, and US citizens cant export encryption technology either or something really dumb.
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  #6  
Old 2010-01-13, 23:13
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China fail.
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  #7  
Old 2010-01-14, 10:47
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oh those silly communist bastards.
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  #8  
Old 2010-01-14, 13:10
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What annoys me is news sites are reporting this as "Google leaves china", which seems rather minor news compared to the hacks themselves
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Old 2010-01-14, 14:57
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That's the media today, they never report on human rights or privacy violations by governments. Unless if it's for outlining a "us and them" kind of mentality... but only if "them" are not our business partners.

And they only do so when they can show that anarchist hackers stole sensitive data FROM a government... and won't ask why did the government/bank/company kept that kind of data in the first place...
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Old 2010-01-14, 15:02
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On the plus side, China is sending aid to Haiti, including teams of doctors.

So China: Hacking bad, relief good!
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  #11  
Old 2010-01-14, 15:05
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I hope Google actually leaves China, and I hope other Western companies consider doing so aswell.
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  #12  
Old 2010-01-14, 15:12
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Doesn't help people in China though.
Its not like their economy will suffer without google.
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Old 2010-01-14, 16:02
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Best case scenario, it opens new discussions in China about their internet policies, and decrease censoring as a result.

Worst case scenario, western companies lose money for pulling out of China and China doesn't give a shit / becomes even more isolated.
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  #14  
Old 2010-01-14, 16:04
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I think it would help people in China if there was a geosynchronous satellite over them, which could be accessed with a regular antenna to have unrestricted access to the internet.

And a second one like that over Iran... and Belarus...

And buoys around Japan that would send signals to scare whales and dolphin's away...
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  #15  
Old 2010-01-14, 17:43
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Well, I don't think this will affect Chinese people in any way, nobody use google there. They use Baidu for searching, and QQ for (pretty much) everything else.
It won't affect the governement either, as google being there or not makes no difference at all to them.
It's just a convenient way for google to announce their commercial failure in China, to the western public. Reinforcing their image of a good company.
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  #16  
Old 2010-01-14, 18:32
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Have you ever seen http://www.google.cn ? those color buttons are so cool !
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  #17  
Old 2010-01-14, 19:19
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Article that sums up the situation quite well, and includes the first official statements from China's government: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8458462.stm
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  #18  
Old 2010-01-14, 19:26
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Good link, better then most reports Ive read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Link View Post
It's just a convenient way for google to announce their commercial failure in China, to the western public. Reinforcing their image of a good company.
Yes, China attacking google's servers is really convenient.
Google should be thankfull.

Also, its unlikely to be "commercial failure". Its so cheap to run servers even having 1% market share probably would make it worth it. Plus, google runs shitloads of stuff for no profit margins at all. They are long-game players. Reasons to pull out of china have little to do with money.

Quote:
I think it would help people in China if there was a geosynchronous satellite over them, which could be accessed with a regular antenna to have unrestricted access to the internet.
True, although they would ban the receiver equipment.

In fact, at one point I think they wanted hardware-filters built into PC's sold.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2010-01-14 at 19:34.
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  #19  
Old 2010-01-14, 22:38
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USA politics getting involved: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ith-China.html

I don't get what Clinton wants to do here though:

Quote:
Mrs Clinton had also met executives from Google and Microsoft, as well as with Cisco Systems, which provides much of China's internet infrastructure, to discuss how to stop countries from "stifling" access to information, the state department added.
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  #20  
Old 2010-01-14, 23:00
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* Link is wondering if they're not slowly preparing a second cold war...
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  #21  
Old 2010-01-14, 23:24
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What a load of hypocritical bullshit. Why not stop worrying about china (yeah, like google actually has a moral cause of any sort) and start worrying about disintegrating personal privacy and civil liberties, here in Europe, such as the government in the UK imposing laws such as monitoring and making it law that all ISP's have to keep a record of every email you sent, every website you visited.

What about the law against taking photographs of police officers in the name of "terrorism" (sorry, but what has taking a photograph of an officer have to do with anything other than making it impossible to photographically document police abuse of the powers given to them).

What about the stop and search (again, terrorism is the excuse) which allows officers to stop anyone, without reasonable suspision, in case he's a terrorist (most documented case point to the fact its simply a tool to allow police to stop anyone for any "suspected" and get away with it in the courts).

While your too busy preaching how other countries should conduct themselves, your loosing your rights here at home (we are now all collectively subjected to laws made by the our unelected representatives in Europe).

Its so terrible when, supposedly (and how the fuck do you know?) china hacked email accounts of human rights activists (gasp) while the EU is one of the main contributors to military forces in Afghanistan, a war that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless innocent deaths, has an undemocratic fraudulent government, saw its opium output increase several fold, and the overall plight of womans rights actually degrade (now rape is officially legal, yay for womans rights!).

What about the support for all the far worse apples in some of the former soviet countries, or middle east regimes. Everyone is a humanitarian when it comes to iran, one of 4 democratic countries in the middle east with degrees of freedom of speech other arab states could only dream of?

Wake up for fucks sake, your enemy is at home in the highest levels of government, financial, judicial,military, media and corporate entities. They will manufacture threat after threat to keep you scared, so that while you get fucked in the ass, they walk away from the bank laughing.

I'm sure your all good intentioned, I'm also sure that you've been brainwashed into believing that Europe is some sort of extra civilized, human rights respecting, moral entity. Your just not at the receiving end of the stick are you now?

Finally, just to source my information a little, Google rethink Afghanistan. Theres a 6 part documentary that shatters the illusions mainstream corporate media shuv down our throats with regards to Afghanistan. Check out the work of Naom Chomsky, or simply alternative independent media.
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  #22  
Old 2010-01-15, 00:33
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The fact we all have some issues at home, does not mean we shouldn't care about other places. This thread was started about that particular case, not about freedom of speech violations worldwide. I'm sure if we ever do start a thread about it, there'll be plenty of opinions on freedom being trampled in Europe or the US.

But yeah, there's loads of bull going on in the EU, like France and their stupid "anti-piracy" laws, the stuff you're talking about in the UK. Outside the EU but still pretty "close" there's Russia murdering the Chechen..

Personally, I don't see any of it in Poland though, on the contrary even, there's talk of getting rid of the place of residence from the id cards, and a discussion about changing some other laws that give room for abuse when it comes to freedom of expression (currently there's a law about offending someone's feelings, that lets anyone, anywhere sue you for offending their religious feelings, without the need to prove your intention to do so, and without you offending that someone in person). We have camera's in cities but they aren't on live feed etc.

The biggest problem I think however, is that the Police can do a search without a warrant, however, they need to have a fact based suspicion of you commiting a crime - a probable cause. Now, if they do a search, and they won't find anything, they're in deep shit, cause upon your request they need to deliver a warrant to you within 7 days, and they did not have the authority to perform the search in the first place. There's however a different problem here, if they do find something else, unrelated to the cause of their search, it still has to be turned in as evidence, albeit of a different crime.

I'm not sure if you remember the uproar before the previous voting on the telecoms package, that contained a clause stating that providers can package the internet... there was a huge uproar about it, lots of petitions to MEP's and such, and the voting got delayed, and to my knowledge the telecoms package was changed a bit. So I guess we do act a bit when our rights are taken away. Now, what stupid laws the brits have at home, I think yeah, the EU should take action about it, but it's not like that if they have it, then the whole EU has it...

Now about the Afghans, how can you be certain, that the info in that docu isn't doctored too? It's so easy to manipulate information these days to support any idea.
Imho the biggest fuckup ever done there, was when the Russians invaded, and the US help only lasted as long as it served their goal to thwart the USSR, once the war stopped, the aid stopped flowing, and that aid was needed more then the weapons and munitions. In the present day? I never had any delusions about it being a mission of spreading democracy and human rights, more of a stick in an ant-hill type manoeuvre. Although I do think it was thought that once you remove the people in charge from their "thrones" the regular people will rush to create a modern government, and that was very naive. If it did any good amongst all the bad, is that it stirred things up, after all there where elections, there is some kind of a government. I think those people will need AT LEAST 20 years to form some sort of a free society. Look at Poland, we had 60 years of a regime that was probably A LOT less severe then what those people had, and it's still strongly rooted in the mentality of a lot of people. It will only go away, when the last people who remember it will die. If the Taliban in Afghanistan, and Saddam in Iran where still in power, the younger generations wouldn't have a chance to start thinking about having something else.

Of course I'm not saying whatever has been done in there is 100% acceptable. Only thing I'm saying that if any effects will emerge from the whole ordeal, will come in many years, and only then we'll be able to fully assess if the actions taken where right or not (apart from all the fucking soldiers and hired guns shooting civilians... who should be trialled as fast as possible of course, shame it won't bring the dead back...).
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2010-01-15 at 01:04.
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  #23  
Old 2010-01-15, 00:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axx View Post
What a load of hypocritical bullshit. Why not stop worrying about china (yeah, like google actually has a moral cause of any sort) and start worrying about disintegrating personal privacy and civil liberties, here in Europe, such as the government in the UK imposing laws such as monitoring and making it law that all ISP's have to keep a record of every email you sent, every website you visited.
Couldn't agree more (on the rest of the post also, but this sums up my thoughts pretty much).

I'll add to this from my own personal experience by saying you get a higher sense of freedom in China than here (I've lived there 1 year, observing the Chinese people). This might seem a paradox seeing how the Chinese government is described as Dictatorial in our holy western countries. I came to the conclusion that the Chinese government is unforgiving for everything that touches politics, that could endanger it or the society's stability, but on the high majority of citizens who don't care about politics and don't particularly want democracy (they're fine with the concept of Mandate of Heaven), the government exerts much less control than in our societies. If you don't believe me, just go to live there during one year.

Well, I could discuss this during hours, days, I could write a book full of arguments, explanations on how China is not evil, and Google is not holy.
I'll just stop here for tonight.
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Old 2010-01-15, 01:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link View Post
the government exerts much less control than in our societies.
On what sense does it exert less control? Please explain.

By the way, nobody is saying that China is evil and Google is sacred. China is a dictatorial country, Google is a big corporation. They can't, by definition, be good or evil. I'm not particularly fond of Google, and I'm definitely not fond of Western society right now, but I despise dictatorships and it saddens me that Western companies are greedy enough to pretend the Chinese one does not exist. Having representation in China is, in a way, endorsing the Chinese system of government. Leaving China is the right thing to do.

You seem to forget that although our society is deeply rotten, it's still fixable, and precisely because we have political freedom. And although the majority of the Chinese population might not care about politics, or even value the right to political expression, there's clearly a minority that does, and that minority is getting crushed. Do you truely not care at all about those people?

Axx, what the fuck does most of your post have to do with Google?
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Old 2010-01-15, 01:12
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Link, I'm not sure then if you remember the massacre at Tien An Men? What did those people die for if it's all peachy in China? What did the Tibetans die for?

i think what you said was in the style of "captain obvious", of course that if you don't stand out the regime will leave you alone! That's what they count on in the first place! To subdue you so that you won't think of voicing opinions! Would you then also tell me that the people who died in the Warsaw uprising died pointlessly? Because all they needed to do to live was to comply? There's more to life then just staying alive! What you wrote is absolutely abhorrent!

I'm not sure if you've seen people sent to Europe to work illegaly, they'll have their passport taken away, and they'll sell clothes and other cheap gadgetry on various "bazars" etc. and will have to pay money to someone sent by the regime to collect it. Trying to escape will mean a death sentence to their family. That's what North Korea does, and that's what Chine does. Yeah, sure, there might not be lots of them in France - but it's a real problem here.
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