Playing LBA 1 as an adult

[SpaceGuitarist]

I know I said I'd leave the forums, and I did, but I am opening an exception for the moment due to this interesting topic which I feel belongs here, in this place.

I've tried LBA1 the other day, the first time in 20 years.

Unfortunately it was not the best experience! Despite the nostalgy which brought me to tears at moments, the actual gameplay experience wasn't so fun - the controls felt clunky, unresponsive and overrall dissatisfying.

I can only think how lucky and how marvelous it was to have enjoyed it back then when things were just right to be enjoyed the way they were.

I couldn't help but have adults views on the game thou. Like, if Twinsen hadn't chickened out in the beginning and hid from two lousy clones when Zoe told him to, then he wouldn't have to face FunFrock's entire army of clones plus he man himself to save her.

I even found it hilarious that Zoe was JUST IN FRONT OF HIM, there and then, but afterwards he goes asking the whole of islands "Have you seen a young quetch being escorted by two groboclones?".

Like. Really. You had all the chances to find out about them at the scene following them, to prevent, to stop, to fight, but did nothing and now you have to find out where they are. One might argue the supergro was invincible. Well, then, both Twinsen and Zoe should hide! Or hide her, and Twinsen can go back to the Citadel for all he cares. That's the gentleman thing to do.

..Thoughts like that.. (please continue with your own thoughts)

[Neko]

the whole gameplay in lba 2 was nice enough for me couple years back. lba1 is a bit clunky in that you cannot jump run.
i also dislike the whole going back and forth between hemisphere's which takes ages.

the atmosphere with the music is fantastic, the whole colour scheme and melancholic music is in my view deeper than in lba2. it shows us more pain and depth somehow.

about hiding: you can actually hide, but then in 1 sec they put brickwall in front of your door. so thats why you have to ask. also, that zoe is in fact a clone, and not the real one. the real one was already abducted. unless twinsen prefers the clone to the original (maybe she's nicer?), I think he kinda has to face funfrock anyway

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Neko

that zoe is in fact a clone, and not the real one. the real one was already abducted

Really? I don't recall that at all. I haven't played the game in its entirety again since, but my memories were that once she was kidnapped, THEN she was cloned to lure Twinsen into a trap. But the first Zoe you meet in front of your house was the real one... o.O


edit: I find it unlikely she was already a clone then, because of the things she spoke to Twinsen, about things hid in the house*, she knew about his dreams (or at least she was not surprised when he mentioned them), and also she helps him to hide without giving him away to the clones (which she could've done). Also, the clone version of Zoe walks with a machine-like sound and movement, like clones do, as we see in the cutscene soon after he's caught in his first attempt to rescue her. The one we meet first in the game is sweet, full of gentle kisses and walks graciously about him.

*Here is the quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe

I think it's time to make use of what you hid in the house.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Really? I don't recall that at all. I haven't played the game in its entirety again since, but my memories were that once she was kidnapped, THEN she was cloned to lure Twinsen into a trap. But the first Zoe you meet in front of your house was the real one... o.O


edit: I find it unlikely she was already a clone then, because of the things she spoke to Twinsen, about things hid in the house*, she knew about his dreams (or at least she was not surprised when he mentioned them), and also she helps him to hide without giving him away to the clones (which she could've done). Also, the clone version of Zoe walks with a machine-like sound and movement, like clones do, as we see in the cutscene soon after he's caught in his first attempt to rescue her. The one we meet first in the game is sweet, full of gentle kisses and walks graciously about him.

*Here is the quote:

ah? maybe i remember it wrong, or read it somewhere that that zoe was a clone too

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CiB

Keep in mind that with what Twinsen is armed with at that point in the game, those two clones are invincible to him. He can't fight them effectively, one of them is a supergro! And it's not really a case of "arguing" that the supergro is invincible- this is just a simple fact (at least when all you have is a level 1 magic ball and your fists). Twinsen is simply incapable of damaging that thing, and it can one hit him. Had he tried to fight them rather than hide, then both he and Zoe would have been arrested.

As for why doesn't Zoe hide? Why do you think that clones are at Twinsens house? They probably didn't follow him there- after all, with how they're invincible to him if they were following him they could have just arrested him at any point. That Supergro's homing sleep ball thing means they don't need to be sneaky once they find Twinsen. They went to the house because they thought Twinsen might go there, they arrive, they know Zoe will be there. They arrest Zoe so she can't help him if Twinsen comes here (and remember later on they leave clones at the house in case Twinsen comes back). So if Zoe doesn't just go with them, they will search the house until they find at least her. Maybe they'd also find Twinsen (so they both get arrested) or maybe they find those things Twinsen has hidden in the house (which would be pretty bad). Best for her to just go with them and make it look like there is nothing else to find at this time.

As for following Zoe and the clones- yes it is pretty daft that he then asks random people "have you seen this woman who has just been arrested", because that would totally attract the sort of suspicion he's trying to avoid. If he followed the clones after the house arrest there is every chance they'd have spotted them and at that point he's in a fight he can't win. He knows he can't do anything now, but if he knows where they're taking Zoe he might be able to do something about it later.

Zoe going quietly is Twinsen's best chance of finding out about his dreams and why Funfrock fears them so. What he did may not be the gentlemanly thing to have done, but it was the smart thing to do for him, for Zoe and for all of Twinsun.

Fair enough!

If it was me I would never let my gf/wife be taken to the hands of a psycho such as FunFrock like that, and definitely wouldn't consider things coldly and strategically as you put it, in the heat of things. In fact, for all Twinsen knows, it could be any type and number of enemies at the door - the reveal of a supergro comes after they open the door. I think I'd have died together with her. None of us shall be taken alive, if that's how it has to be! But I guess that difference of a decision is what makes Twinsen a hero and me a common person.

[Polaris]

If you played the latest release, controls are clunkier than they used to be. Key presses aren't registered if pressed too fast. It's very frustrating that I can't attack fast enough when switching to agressive mode

[RGaspar]

I tried to replay LBA1 (new version edition) last month and I couldn't do it, it's just too clunky in general. I quit when I was halfways on Principal Island.



There are many annoying little things that add-up over time:



- Autosaves: it sucks that the game decides for you when it should save your progress. I might be guilty of save-scumming in LBA2, but at least I was making faster progress through the game that way. With LBA1, you either do a segment almost perfectly or start the area from scratch.



- Crashing onto walls: They "fixed" it with the new release, but there are still some borders and corners where you keep crashing if you are running with sporty mode (the only way to move through the game at anything but a snail's pace)


- The trial and error gameplay: Probably a sign of its times, but the isometric view and the unforgiving nature of the insta-lose grobbo ball in the beginning make moving through this world a total chore. Every new screen is a challenge and exploring is slow and scary. Totally different from the laid-back attitude of LBA2.



I don't know, the game finally feels really old and in need of a remake or heavy remaster, because the adventure itself is worth it, but I can't stand the actual gameplay anymore.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by RGaspar

I tried to replay LBA1 (new version edition) last month and I couldn't do it, it's just too clunkly in general. I quit when I was halfways on Principal Island.



There are many annoying little things that add-up over time:



- Autosaves: it sucks that the game decides for you when it should save your progress. I might be guilty of save-scumming in LBA2, but at least I was making faster progress through the game that way. With LBA1, you either do a segment almost perfectly or start the area from scratch.



- Crashing onto walls. They "fixed" it with the new release, but there are still some borders and corners where you keep crashing if you are running with sporty mode (the only way to move through the game at anything but a snail's pace)


- The trial and error gameplay. Probably a sign of its times, but the isometric view and the unforgiving nature of the insta-lose grobbo ball in the beginning make moving through this world a total chore. Every new screen is a challenge and exploring is slow and scary. Totally different from the laid-back attitude of LBA2.



I don't know, the game finally feels really old and in need of a remake or heavy remaster, because the adventure itself is worth it, but I can't stand the actual gameplay anymore.

I am really glad to hear this!!!
Your words made my uncomfortable feelings playing LBA1 a shared frustration rather than a lone one.



I was feeling it was just me, that maybe my PC wasn't set up right for oldschool gaming, etc., but turns out it really is aged. *sigh* I love its story, graphics, voices and everything else that made the game be the legend that it is, I just wished the actual gameplay felt fun and smooth like in my childhood memories.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

I am really glad to hear this!!!
Your words made my uncomfortable feelings playing LBA1 a shared frustration rather than a lone one.



I was feeling it was just me, that maybe my PC wasn't set up right for oldschool gaming, etc., but turns out it really is aged. *sigh* I love its story, graphics, voices and everything else that made the game be the legend that it is, I just wished the actual gameplay felt fun and smooth like in my childhood memories.

herecy

[Polaris]

Huh, I must've played it too often then, because while everything you're saying is on point (especially the part about unforgiveness), I haven't been really bothered about the controls...
Not enough time on my part to forget it I guess...

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Polaris

If you played the latest release, controls are clunkier than they used to be. Key presses aren't registered if pressed too fast. It's very frustrating that I can't attack fast enough when switching to agressive mode

Uhh... Should we nickname you 'bi-polaris' ?

Originally Posted by Neko

herecy

Don't steal my line, bro.

[RGaspar]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Huh, I must've played it too often then, because while everything you're saying is on point (especially the part about unforgiveness), I haven't been really bothered about the controls...
Not enough time on my part to forget it I guess...

I played LBA1 for the first time ever in 2006. Since that was when I re-discovered this series (and joined MBN shortly after), I found it tough, but doable. You could totally tell Raynal and Co. made a survival horror right before LBA1, because the first Twinsen's adventure has a darker tone than LBA2.



Then, I think I tried to replay it once before, and now last month and it's official to me: The game is old and I don't like it anymore. I like the idea and the concept of what you do and that's even better than the sequel sometimes. But I don't like the way you play it anymore.



And, for the record, I was and still am a big LBA2 fan, which was my first LBA all the way back in late '99 or early 2000. Can't remember the exact date. Currently playing through it and it's completely different from the original, most of my complaints are gone.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

I know I said I'd leave the forums, and I did, but I am opening an exception for the moment due to this interesting topic which I feel belongs here, in this place.

I've tried LBA1 the other day, the first time in 20 years.

Unfortunately it was not the best experience! Despite the nostalgy which brought me to tears at moments, the actual gameplay experience wasn't so fun - the controls felt clunky, unresponsive and overrall dissatisfying.

I can only think how lucky and how marvelous it was to have enjoyed it back then when things were just right to be enjoyed the way they were.

I couldn't help but have adults views on the game thou. Like, if Twinsen hadn't chickened out in the beginning and hid from two lousy clones when Zoe told him to, then he wouldn't have to face FunFrock's entire army of clones plus he man himself to save her.

I even found it hilarious that Zoe was JUST IN FRONT OF HIM, there and then, but afterwards he goes asking the whole of islands "Have you seen a young quetch being escorted by two groboclones?".

Like. Really. You had all the chances to find out about them at the scene following them, to prevent, to stop, to fight, but did nothing and now you have to find out where they are. One might argue the supergro was invincible. Well, then, both Twinsen and Zoe should hide! Or hide her, and Twinsen can go back to the Citadel for all he cares. That's the gentleman thing to do.

..Thoughts like that.. (please continue with your own thoughts)

here's the thing, you didn't play lba 1 in 20 years?
I find a lot of people just came here for lba2, and never liked lba1 that much or found it very hard. If the controls frustrate you, you didn't play the game, or you simply forgot, which kind of boggles my mind a little.

not boasting, to each their own cup of tea etc etc, but I've been playing these games like 20 times through when i was a kid, which is why i'm here on this forum still. last time i played it was when i was making a series as funfrock running through the game (now that i think of it, my fun thought experiment as funfrock as the good guy must have been a little while in the making then )
and the game was still the same, not very hard at all once you have mastered it, the skills stay with you forever.

Actually, the school of magic honed my magic ball skills even further, thanks lba2. still can blindly kill most clones outside of the isometric view.

having said all that, haven't tried the latest version which polly found frustrating so maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

the one thing i do vibe with y'all is that the game isn't so fun to play, largely due to the fact you have to keep running back and forth, retrieving items and stuff, which takes so much time.

last thoughts for now: i like lba2's gameplay, but I rather find it like running aorund in a magic kiddy playground while lba1 is like proper break out of the matrix - deep story with infinite pain and sadness, and the peaks are higher for me. that feeling when you take over the mountain pass with the rebels, and then to find a little piece of heaven where the lba1 main theme plays when you have a brief pause to snowboard....brilliant game.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by RGaspar

I played LBA1 for the first time ever in 2006. Since that was when I re-discovered this series (and joined MBN shortly after), I found it tough, but doable. You could totally tell Raynal and Co. made a survival horror right before LBA1, because the first Twinsen's adventure has a darker tone than LBA2.



Then, I think I tried to replay it once before, and now last month and it's official to me: The game is old and I don't like it anymore. I like the idea and the concept of what you do and that's even better than the sequel sometimes. But I don't like the way you play it anymore.



And, for the record, I was and still am a big LBA2 fan, which was my first LBA all the way back in late '99 or early 2000. Can't remember the exact date. Currently playing through it and it's completely different from the original, most of my complaints are gone.

I think the best total experience of the series if you played lba1 first, and mastered it. Then play and discover lba2. That way, you have a lot of skills and lba2 feels like a walk in the susnhine park, while you wered used to get beaten to death!

Also, that way, you can still enjoy the original.

The other way around, and people were horrified with the difficulty and darkness of the original, which I loved btw.

[RGaspar]

Originally Posted by Neko

- deep story with infinite pain and sadness.

I have enough of that in real life, thank you very much The struggle to get some kashes is real, lol.

But I get your point, and I gotta say that to each their own.I have the perfect 180° experience from yours. Since I started with LBA2, to me the series is all about fun, easy exploration, a light-hearted story with infinite joy and happiness. Even when it gets more serious near the end and the island CX, it's still a walk in the park compared to LBA1.

And I like it that way, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Neko

here's the thing, you didn't play lba 1 in 20 years?
I find a lot of people just came here for lba2, and never liked lba1 that much or found it very hard. If the controls frustrate you, you didn't play the game, or you simply forgot, which kind of boggles my mind a little.

I did love LBA1 at the time without any complaints to its controls or difficulty. I do remember it being very hard and that was a pleasing challenge coming from LBA2. The difficulty is fine, really. It's a tad tiresomely repetitive for an adult, but for a kid free all day to play games, it is fine. The main problem nowadays, to the point of being disappointing in its gameplay, is that the controls seems to either have become clunkier or they were always clunky and only now I am realizing it. When I press the keys in the speed I am used to, its just slow, unresponsive and overrall a lame gameplay experience. I think if I run an actual old machine with the original CD it will play like before. But these DosBox emulations on new machines somehow ruined the gameplay. I dunno. Go figure.

I disagree with it being too "dark" as you say. It isn't dark at all. It still is a game for children, with cartoony graphics, french humour and a fantastic story. Sure it has some tragedies in it, like all good fairytales do. But the good wins in the end, and the hero saves the world. So it's all much in line with all good narratives for children which teach us values of virtue and heroism, I don't think it's dark at all per se; the villain only plays the counterpoint here to highlight your heroism, it's all there just to push you to keep fighting the good fight, but I don't see this fight as anything grim, really.

I mean, take the combats. There's no blood, there's no death, no suffering. I don't think you even kill any actual living things - mostly just robotic clones which probably have no soul, are just lifeless clones. And you attack them with a magical colored ball which makes the opponents bounce in funny ways - say, the guards with that hollow *thump* sound as if they were made out of rubber, or how those rabbibunny android-like clones just stumble and falls to the ground when hit and then slowly tries to stand up again like in cartoons, etc - and then there are no dead bodies, they just *boom* away. You talk with animals, you solve quests, you're mostly free to just wander around and explore and feel the magic. It's quite the children's adventure.

Originally Posted by RGaspar

I have the perfect 180° experience from yours. Since I started with LBA2, to me the series is all about fun, easy exploration, a light-hearted story with infinite joy and happiness.

Same here and 100% agree!


EDIT: Oh, RGaspar, if you're reading this: I couldnt reply to your wall msg on my profile for some reason the thing is broken it stays forever on " Posting Message - Please Wait " and doesn't work anymore, so, here it is: "Didnt play Undertale, no! No time for games..." .

[RGaspar]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

EDIT: Oh, RGaspar, if you're reading this: I couldnt reply to your wall msg on my profile for some reason the thing is broken it stays forever on " Posting Message - Please Wait " and doesn't work anymore, so, here it is: "Didnt play Undertale, no! No time for games..." .

How come you don't have time for games?!! Lol. Adulting is hard

I get it, the visitor's messages aren't working for me, either. Elmuerte should check that out, we are still in time before the influx of new (and old) people when the new game comes out in 2024. If he doesn't kick us out because we are against LBA1, lol.

And I'm team "LBA is meant to be fun and light-hearted", yes, even LBA1. In fact, there was an interview a long time ago, when Fred Raynal said he made LBA because everyone and their mother were rushing to do FPS like Doom, wish I had the link. It's just that the general gameplay and feel of LBA1 is a bit more Nintendo Hard than LBA2, because it's just an older game made in a different time.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by RGaspar

because it's just an older game made in a different time.

^ This!

[Polaris]

Yep, visitor's messages are broken :/

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Uhh... Should we nickname you 'bi-polaris' ?

It is important to have clean and responsive controls to beat everyone up efficiently

Originally Posted by RGaspar

I was and still am a big LBA2 fan, [...] it's completely different from the original, most of my complaints are gone.

lol, opposite for me, the static camera and 3D environment mix in LA2 feels very strange >.<

[Neko]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

I did love LBA1 at the time without any complaints to its controls or difficulty. I do remember it being very hard and that was a pleasing challenge coming from LBA2. The difficulty is fine, really. It's a tad tiresomely repetitive for an adult, but for a kid free all day to play games, it is fine. The main problem nowadays, to the point of being disappointing in its gameplay, is that the controls seems to either have become clunkier or they were always clunky and only now I am realizing it. When I press the keys in the speed I am used to, its just slow, unresponsive and overrall a lame gameplay experience. I think if I run an actual old machine with the original CD it will play like before. But these DosBox emulations on new machines somehow ruined the gameplay. I dunno. Go figure.

I disagree with it being too "dark" as you say. It isn't dark at all. It still is a game for children, with cartoony graphics, french humour and a fantastic story. Sure it has some tragedies in it, like all good fairytales do. But the good wins in the end, and the hero saves the world. So it's all much in line with all good narratives for children which teach us values of virtue and heroism, I don't think it's dark at all per se; the villain only plays the counterpoint here to highlight your heroism, it's all there just to push you to keep fighting the good fight, but I don't see this fight as anything grim, really.

I mean, take the combats. There's no blood, there's no death, no suffering. I don't think you even kill any actual living things - mostly just robotic clones which probably have no soul, are just lifeless clones. And you attack them with a magical colored ball which makes the opponents bounce in funny ways - say, the guards with that hollow *thump* sound as if they were made out of rubber, or how those rabbibunny android-like clones just stumble and falls to the ground when hit and then slowly tries to stand up again like in cartoons, etc - and then there are no dead bodies, they just *boom* away. You talk with animals, you solve quests, you're mostly free to just wander around and explore and feel the magic. It's quite the children's adventure.


Same here and 100% agree!


EDIT: Oh, RGaspar, if you're reading this: I couldnt reply to your wall msg on my profile for some reason the thing is broken it stays forever on " Posting Message - Please Wait " and doesn't work anymore, so, here it is: "Didnt play Undertale, no! No time for games..." .

ah i get both of you, if you played lba2 first then that is the standard so to speak. your brain will see that as what lba is supposed to be. going back to lba 1 after so many years and that will be a hardship

about dark; sure it's cartoony and fun and cute, but the added darkness was great contrast and gave it depth. the first thing you do is you got to run for your life! dark colours, machines that shoot if you move, oppression. feeling of danger while also beautiful music is played.

[RGaspar]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Yep, visitor's messages are broken :/


It is important to have clean and responsive controls to beat everyone up efficiently



lol, opposite for me, the static camera and 3D environment mix in LA2 feels very strange >.<

Polaris, my man. The new version of LBA2 doesn't have a static camera anymore and now it works with modern consoles' controllers, like the DS4.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Polaris

the static camera and 3D environment mix in LA2 feels very strange >.<

Opposite for me, curiously! I love the camera work of LBA2, it is cinematic imho, it makes me feel like I'm in a movie and I'm a spectator while at the same time being the director.

If you're a photographer and you're always looking for the best way to frame things, knowing full well that certain things will be kept out - and knowing the beauty of doing so, of grasping just a fragment, a scene, a flash of a moment - then you find it quite beautiful how every angle of the camera is as if it's an observer smartly framing the scene each time.

[Hin]

Originally Posted by RGaspar

Polaris, my man. The new version of LBA2 doesn't have a static camera anymore and now it works with modern consoles' controllers, like the DS4.

Can you play the new LBA1 with a controller too?

[RGaspar]

Originally Posted by Hin

Can you play the new LBA1 with a controller too?

Yes, both LBAs work with enhanced controller options! It's a free upgrade to anyone that owns the games on steam/gog (and you still get to keep the original games, so it's a win win).

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

Opposite for me, curiously! I love the camera work of LBA2, it is cinematic imho

Don't get me wrong, it certainly is interesting, and I described that same cinematic feeling a few years ago in the what game thread. I'm just saying, it's one of the aspects that makes the game feel old for me.
Also while it is good, it still feels a bit unpolished. The camera let's you go very far off if you're going straight, and if you're turning, it suddenly refreshes each 0,5 seconds.

Originally Posted by RGaspar

Polaris, my man. The new version of LBA2 doesn't have a static camera anymore

I know, you think I havent spent hours with it already ?
The problem with it, is that we loose all the preset shots which were actually nice.

I never will be satisfied