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  #1  
Old 2004-03-16, 04:13
Axx's Avatar
Axx Axx is offline
The return of
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,671
Angry Land of the hypocrites- AMERICA

Read on...

>My Hell In Camp X-ray
>
>A BRITISH captive freed from Guantanamo Bay today tells the world of its
>full horror - and reveals how prostitutes were taken into the camp to
>degrade Muslim inmates.
>
>
>
>Jamal al-Harith, 37, who arrived home three days ago after two years of
>confinement, is the first detainee to lift the lid on the US regime in
>Cuba's Camp X-Ray and Camp Delta.
>
>
>
>The father-of-three, from Manchester, told how he was assaulted with fists,
>feet and batons after refusing a mystery injection.
>
>
>
>He said detainees were shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg
>cuffs with metal links which cut into the skin.
>
>
>
>Their "cells" were wire cages with concrete floors and open to the elements
>- giving no privacy or protection from the rats, snakes and scorpions loose
>around the American base.
>
>
>
>He claims punishment beatings were handed out by guards known as the Extreme
>Reaction Force. They waded into inmates in full riot-gear, raining blows on
>them.
>
>
>
>Prisoners faced psychological torture and mind-games in attempts to make
>them confess to acts they had never committed. Even petty breaches of rules
>brought severe punishment.
>
>
>
>Medical treatment was sparse and brutal and amputations of limbs were more
>drastic than required, claimed Jamal.
>
>
>
>A diet of foul water and food up to 10 years out-of-date left inmates
>malnourished.
>
>
>
>But Jamal's most shocking disclosure centred on the use of vice girls to
>torment the most religiously devout detainees.
>
>
>
>Prisoners who had never seen an "unveiled" woman before would be forced to
>watch as the hookers touched their own naked bodies.
>
>
>
>The men would return distraught. One said an American girl had smeared
>menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "I knew of this happening about 10 times. It always seemed to be
>those who were very young or known to be particularly religious who would be
>taken away.
>
>
>
>"I would joke with the other British lads, 'Bring them to us - we'll have
>them'. It made us laugh. But the Americans obviously knew we wouldn't be
>shocked by seeing Western women, so they didn't bother.
>
>
>
>"It was a profoundly disturbing experience for these men. They would refuse
>to speak about what had happened. It would take perhaps four weeks for them
>to tell a friend - and we would shout it out around the whole block."
>
>
>
>Jamal added: "The whole point of Guantanamo was to get to you
>psychologically. The beatings were not as nearly as bad as the psychological
>torture - bruises heal after a week - but the other stuff stays with you."
>
>
>
>HE was talking from a secret location after being reunited with his family.
>The website designer, a convert to Islam, had gone to Pakistan in October
>2001, a few weeks after September 11, to study Muslim culture.
>
>
>
>He accidentally strayed into Afghanistan - believing he was being driven to
>Turkey - and was arrested as a spy, perhaps because of his British passport.
>He was held in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and fell into US hands.
>
>
>
>Now Jamal bears the scars of Guantanamo. He stoops into a hunch as he walks
>because the shackles that bound him were too short.
>
>
>
>As a punishment, inmates would be confined so tightly they would be forced
>to lie in a ball for hours. During lengthy interrogation, they would be
>tethered to a metal ring on the floor.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "Sometimes you would be chained up on the floor with your hands
>and feet actually bound together. One of my friends told me he was kept like
>that for 15 hours once.
>
>
>
>"Recreation meant your legs were untied and you walked up and down a strip
>of gravel. In Camp X-Ray you only got five minutes but in Delta you walked
>for around 15 minutes."
>
>
>
>Jamal said victims of the Extreme Reaction Force were paraded in front of
>cells. "It was a horrible sight and it was a frequent sight."
>
>
>
>He said one unit used force-feeding to end a hunger strike by 70 per cent of
>the 600 inmates. The strike started after a guard deliberately kicked a copy
>of the Koran.
>
>
>
>Rice and beans was the usual diet and the water was "filthy". Jamal added:
>"In Camp X-Ray it was yellow and in Delta it was black - the colour of
>Coca-Cola.
>
>
>
>"We had it piped through with a tap in each 'cage' but they would often turn
>the water off as punishment.
>
>
>
>"They would shut off the water before prayers so we couldn't wash ourselves
>according to our religion.
>
>
>
>"The food was terrible as well, up to 10 years out-of-date. They would open
>a hatch and shove it through a section at a time.
>
>
>
>"We had porridge and something they called 'like-milk', which was disgusting
>and 'like-tea' and a piece of fruit. The fruit had been frozen and pounded
>with chemicals. An apple might look red but there was waxy white stuff all
>over it and inside it would be black and brown.
>
>
>
>"They would play tricks on people by denying them things - you might be the
>only person on your block who didn't get any bread. I prided myself on never
>asking them for anything. I would not beg." Jamal said they were told they
>had no rights. "They actually said that - 'You have no rights here'. After a
>while, we stopped asking for human rights - we wanted animal rights. In Camp
>X-Ray my cage was right next to a kennel housing an Alsatian dog.
>
>
>
>"He had a wooden house with air conditioning and green grass to exercise on.
>I said to the guards, 'I want his rights' and they replied, 'That dog is
>member of the US army'.
>
>
>
>"You would be punished for anything - for having six packets of salt in your
>cell rather than five, for hanging your towel through the cage if it wasn't
>wet, even for having your spoon and things lined up in the wrong order."
>
>
>
>Being forced to use a bucket as a toilet in view of other inmates and guards
>was particularly embarrassing. Jamal said: "I never got used to it - we
>would all put our towels and clothes around us.
>
>
>
>"But the Military Police up in the tower would see us and would shout to
>each other.
>
>
>
>"We were only allowed a shower once a week at the beginning and none at all
>in solitary confinement.
>
>
>
>"This was very tough because you are supposed to be clean when you pray.
>
>
>
>"Gradually the number of showers rose to three a week. They were always
>cold.
>
>
>
>"You would be chained by two MPs while you were still in the cage before
>being taken off for what they called 'rec and shower'.
>
>
>
>"You could sometimes see the guards tampering with the shower heads to make
>water squirt all over the inmate's clothes if he had put them up to protect
>his privacy."
>
>
>
>Inmates were issued with "comfort items" - known as CIs - like shampoo,
>towels, a washcloth and boxer shorts. CIs would be removed as a punishment.
>
>
>
>Jamal defiantly refused "treats", such as watching a James Bond film in a
>room dubbed The Love Shack by inmates.
>
>
>
>He added: "Some people were given pizzas, ice-cream and McDonald's, but they
>didn't offer them to me. I guess they knew bribery would work with some and
>not with others."
>
>
>
>To pass the time, inmates would chat to each other, pray, read the Koran and
>sing Islamic songs. In Camp X-Ray, they were given Mills and Boon-style
>romance novels in Arabic, which they refused to read.
>
>
>
>Describing medical treatment, Jamal said he knew of 11 men who had legs
>amputated and two who lost toes and fingers. He was told that the Americans
>had removed far more tissue than was necessary.
>
>
>
>HE added: "The man in the cell next to me had frostbite in two fingers and
>two toes. He also had it in his big toe, but they didn't treat that for a
>year by which time they had to cut off much more than was needed.
>
>
>
>"All the men who had lost limbs complained they would chop them off high up
>and not bother to try to save as much as possible."
>
>
>
>Jamal added that he didn't have close friends in Guantanamo, saying: "When I
>did meet the other Brits, we would reminisce about home - particularly the
>food.
>
>
>
>"We were all obsessed with Scottish Highland Shortbread - we wanted some so
>much.
>
>
>
>"One of the Brits told me he was asked why he was a Muslim, because he ought
>to be praying to the Queen."
>
>
>
>Jamal, who is divorced with daughters aged three and eight and a son of
>five, is convinced his refusal to succumb to mind-games gave him the will to
>come through.
>
>
>
>He said: "It was very, very hard at times, but I tried to think about
>nothing but survival.
>
>
>
>"I kept my thoughts from home as much as possible because it would drive me
>crazy.
>
>
>
>"About a year into my time, I had a dream. A voice said, 'You will here for
>two years'.
>
>
>
>"In my dream I said, 'Two years! You're joking'. But when I woke up, I was
>calmer because at least that meant I would be getting out one day.
>
>
>
>"I was sent to Guantanamo on February 11, 2002 and left on March 9, 2004, so
>I was there for just over two years, just like the voice in the dream said."
>
>
>
>
>
>JAMAL al-Harith told last night how he suffered a brutal attack by US
>military police because he refused to have a mystery injection.
>
>
>
>A squad of five men used batons, fists, feet and knees in an assault that
>left him with severe bruising.
>
>
>
>During the beating the officers barked in automated unison: "Comply, comply,
>comply. Do not resist. Do not resist."
>
>
>
>Jamal told how the men swung into action after he politely refused a jab an
>orderly was trying to give him because he didn't know what it was and he was
>fit and healthy.
>
>
>
>The squad was from the US military's Extreme Reaction Force, a unit trained
>to hand out beatings and known to prisoners at Guantanamo as ERF.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "I could hear their feet stomping on the ground as they got
>closer and closer to my cell. They were given a briefing about me refusing
>the injection, then I heard them readying themselves outside.
>
>
>
>"I was terrified of what they were going to do. I had seen victims of ERF
>being paraded in front of my cell.
>
>
>
>"They had been battered and bruised into submission. It was a horrible sight
>and a frequent sight."
>
>
>
>Jamal, who had been warned by interrogators they would inject him with drugs
>if he did not answer their questions, cowered in his cell awaiting the
>inevitable.
>
>
>
>When it came the full force of heavily protected men in riot gear, with
>batons and shields, was used against him.
>
>
>
>He said: "They were really gung-ho, hyped up and aggressive. One of them
>attacked me really hard and left me with a deep red mark from my backbone
>down to my knee. I thought I was bleeding, but it was just really bad
>bruising.
>
>
>
>"I said to myself, 'You shouldn't have put yourself through that', but said
>nothing to the ERFs. I didn't want to give them the satisfaction.
>
>
>
>"There is principle and I wasn't going to take the injection so if they
>wanted to beat me up that was down to them. This huge black bruise was there
>for days after that."
>
>
>
>But Jamal's ordeal didn't end there. Half an hour later as he was
>recovering, a second ERF squad arrived to dish out more punishment.
>
>
>
>HE SAID: "They accused me of biting a military policeman. I said nothing. I
>knew it wouldn't help whatever I said.
>
>
>
>"They laid into me again. When they were finished I sat down, picked up the
>Koran and started reading. Then two guards put me in more chains and said:
>'Will you comply?'"
>
>
>
>Jamal was taken to the feared isolation units, nicknamed ISOs, where those
>accused of misbehaving are kept in solitary confinement with just a mat and
>towel.
>
>
>
>A toothbrush, toothpaste and soap, considered "comfort items", were denied.
>Jamal admits this was the first time he cried, although he did not let the
>guards see he was upset.
>
>
>
>He added: "I sobbed a little, twice. Everything had been taken away from me.
>All I had was my dignity."
>
>
>
>Jamal told of the psychological torture used on those in the isolation unit
>by guards who were trying to break their resolve.
>
>
>
>Bright lights were left on in their cells overnight making it impossible to
>sleep properly. And the rooms were turned very hot in the day or freezing in
>the early morning by using fans in the ceiling.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "I'd wake up at 3am shivering like crazy. Just to keep a little
>bit warm I'd try to sleep under a metal bed to protect me from the cold air
>that was blowing in.
>
>
>
>"I'd kept a towel which I hid from a guard to lie on. It wasn't much, but it
>made things a bit better."
>
>
>
>He was put in the isolation unit twice more. Once when he kept ripping off
>wrist bands with his name and the number 490 written on and another time
>after guards set up a group of detainees by pretending some spoons had gone
>missing. Jamal said: "Non-compliance were the favourite words thrown at us."
>
>
>
>Jamal told how he was interrogated on a regular basis by FBI and CIA agents
>and later MI5.
>
>
>
>On 40 occasions he was quizzed in chains, which were bolted to the floor,
>for up to 12 hours at a time.
>
>
>
>Jamal quickly became an expert in their interrogation techniques, often
>turning questions on his tormentors.
>
>
>
>He said: "They'd ask me the same thing over and over again. Sometimes I'd
>say nothing and they asked me why I wasn't responding.
>
>
>
>"I'd say: 'You're boring me, ask me something new and I will reply'." After
>the Americans failed to glean any information, MI5 officers and British
>consular officials interviewed him. On eight or nine occasions they tried to
>make him admit he was involved in terrorism.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "They would say: 'Are you a terrorist?' I'd say 'no, get me out
>of here'."
>
>
>
>Speaking about his British interrogators, Jamal added: "They were a mixed
>bunch. There was one young nervous guy who looked about 21. I called him
>Youth Training Scheme MI5.
>
>
>
>"He wasn't very professional and hadn't even checked out my background. One
>of them did say they had run my name and details through every Interpol
>check, but could find nothing. I told them that's because I'm innocent.
>There's nothing on me. I haven't even got a parking ticket.
>
>
>
>"The young guy got a bit frustrated with me and said: 'Are you trying to
>tell me how to do my job?'
>
>
>
>"One MI5 guy I just didn't want to talk to. He kept asking me questions and
>I'd say 'it's in my file'.
>
>
>
>"In the end I said: 'I'm not talking any more.' He replied: 'I've come all
>this way from England to see you.' I only saw him for 10 minutes. He was
>very red faced and angry."
>
>
>
>Jamal said his US interrogators were much meaner in their approach to
>questioning.
>
>
>
>One told him after not getting the answers he wanted: "We are going to
>inject you with drugs."
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "They were trying everything they could to frighten me. They
>even staged a mock beating up in the next room to me. They started shouting
>and pulling a chair around, but I knew there wasn't anyone there because I
>couldn't hear any chains clanking on the floor."
>
>
>
>Another officer threatened Jamal with torture to get a confession. He told
>him: "Then we will kill your family and you."
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "Sometimes they'd joke about what they were going to do to me.
>But I was determined to show no weakness. I didn't want to let them think
>they were getting to me.
>
>
>
>"Other times they'd play a good cop, bad cop routine. I tried to remain
>calm, although I was fuming inside. It would been giving in to have lost my
>temper and I never did, not once.
>
>
>
>"I don't swear and I didn't fight back. It was only on principles that I
>stood my ground.
>
>
>
>"The mental torture was far tougher than any of the physical punishments. I
>knew I was being treated a lot worse than any of the other detainees. They
>tried everything to break me.
>
>
>
>"Ridiculously, they even accused me of being an MI5 spy.
>
>
>
>"I began to tease them a little because it was my way of coping. They could
>never work out when I was serious or not.
>
>
>
>I HAD three plaits in my beard. I suggested, although I didn't say it, that
>it was for three people I had killed during drug deals in Moss Side,
>Manchester.
>
>
>
>"I was making the whole thing up but they believed me. Next time I saw an
>officer he said MI5 had confirmed the story.
>
>
>
>"They couldn't get a handle on me and that frustrated them. In the end one
>said: 'Who are you?' And I said: 'I've been here for over one a half years
>and you're asking who I am?'
>
>
>
>"I took a stand against them because what they were doing to me was
>barbaric. I wouldn't get down on my knees for the chains to be pulled around
>my body because it was demeaning.
>
>
>
>"About 20 per cent of us wouldn't co-operate. Eventually they backed down
>and we would stand while the guards went on their knees to chain us up.
>
>
>
>"That was a small victory. There weren't many, but they were memorable. I
>will cherish them."
>
>
>
>Despite the horror, Jamal said there were lighter moments.
>
>
>
>One particular interrogation technique amused him. He said: "They started
>playing different music to see how I would react.
>
>
>
>"They started with country singer Kris Kristofferson which I said I quite
>liked. Then some Fleetwood Mac songs.
>
>
>
>"They watched my reactions on camera. I just said the music's great and even
>started singing along. They didn't play it again."
>
>
>
>In the isolation unit, Jamal met for the first time fellow British detainee
>Tarek Dergoul.
>
>
>
>He said: "He was suave and had a pencil moustache. We had a good chat about
>life back in Britain."
>
>
>
>Jamal was released on Tuesday after being flown from Cuba to RAF Northolt,
>West London.
>
>
>
>He arrived back with four other former Guantanamo Bay Britons - Asif Iqbal
>and Ruhal Ahmed, both 22, and 26-year-olds Shafiq Rasul and Tarek.
>
>
>
>They were freed on Wednesday night after being quizzed by anti-terrorist
>police in London.
>
>
>
>Four other British suspects are still being held in Cuba.
>
>
>
>Foreign Secretary Jack Straw last night said the US was right to keep the
>men locked up and the release of the five did not necessarily prove their
>innocence.
>
>
>
>He added: "The Americans as far as they were concerned had good reason for
>detaining them."
>
>
>
>Asked whether they were innocent, he replied: "I can't answer that question,
>nobody can."
>
>
>
>JAMAL al-Harith's incredible journey to Guantanamo Bay began in the tough
>streets of Manchester's Moss Side.
>
>
>
>He was born Ronald Fiddler in a family of Jamaican origin and grew up with
>his father and two sisters after their mother walked out.
>
>
>
>At 23, Ronnie began learning about Islam and converted soon afterwards,
>taking the name Jamal al-Harith "just because I liked it".
>
>
>
>He took a computer course alongside his religious studies and became a web
>designer.
>
>
>
>He visited several European countries before deciding to go further afield
>to learn more about Muslims and how they lived.
>
>
>
>He began studying the Koran and learned Arabic on a trip to Sudan.
>
>
>
>The ill-fated trip to Pakistan in October 2001, just a few weeks after
>September 11, was his second and he planned to stay for three weeks,
>learning about Muslim culture and studying the holy book.
>
>
>
>Divorced Jamal, who has three children aged three, five and eight, said:
>"Yes, I travelled to Pakistan in October 2001 but if that's my crime then
>you would have to arrest whole planeloads of people.
>
>
>
>"When I was interrogated, the Americans used to say 'How come you're so
>clean? We've put your name and face through Interpol and we can't even find
>a speeding ticket'.
>
>
>
>"I told them: 'That's because I've never done anything wrong in my life. You
>don't have anything on me and you still won't have anything on me when I
>walk out of here' - and that's exactly what happened.
>
>
>
>"I think that's why they were so hard on me. They couldn't bear to admit
>they had made a mistake."
>
>
>
>Jamal was in Quetta, on the border with Afghanistan and just four days into
>his trip to Pakistan, when the Americans began bombing Taliban strongholds.
>
>
>
>He decided to leave for Turkey and paid a local truck driver 4,000 rupees -
>around £47 - to drive him.
>
>
>
>He was told their route would take them through Iran, but he had no idea he
>would be passing through Afghanistan.
>
>
>
>A few days into the trip, the truck was stopped by an armed gang.
>
>
>
>They grew excited when they saw Jamal's British passport and after looking
>at his other possessions, which included a clockwork radio, accused him of
>being a spy.
>
>
>
>He was taken to a filthy jail, held in solitary confinement then transferred
>to another prison.
>
>
>
>He was again held in isolation and was beaten and interrogated, during which
>he denied he had been spying against the Taliban for the British.
>
>
>
>Jamal later told the Americans how a man he presumed was a US agent had died
>after suffering a particularly brutal beating.
>
>
>
>He said: "They tried to say the man wasn't an American, but I know he was. I
>am sure I would have got the same treatment but I made sure that every time
>my guards saw me I was praying.
>
>
>
>"The Taliban liked me because I always had the Koran in my hands. I was
>beaten very badly, but not as badly as most of the other inmates.
>
>
>
>"Afghanistan finally fell and I was visited in jail by the Red Cross.
>
>
>
>"There were a couple of Pakistanis in the prison and they were allowed to go
>across the border.
>
>
>
>"The Red Cross asked me if I wanted to go with them, but I had no money and
>no way of getting back to Britain so I asked them to put me in contact with
>the British Embassy in Kabul.
>
>
>
>"That is incredible to me now - I could have gone home on my own."
>
>
>
>Jamal stayed with the Red Cross in Kandahar for a week and, in phone calls
>to the British Embassy was assured he would soon be put on a flight to Kabul
>and then back to Britain.
>
>
>
>But two days later, the Americans arrived. They drove him to a place
>described by Jamal as "a concentration camp", complete with watchtowers and
>barbed wire.
>
>
>
>He said: "I begged the Red Cross to get me out or at least contact the
>embassy for me. On January 24, I was taken to a US air base and held there
>for another three weeks.
>
>
>
>"Then my interrogator told me I was being sent to Cuba, but it was just
>standard procedure.
>
>
>
>"I was assured it would take about two months to process me and then I could
>go free. I believed him."
>
>
>
>For the next two years, Jamal continued to protest his innocence.
>
>
>
>He said his interrogators would often taunt him by promising he was about to
>go home, only to pretend they had never said it.
>
>
>
>But two weeks ago, Jamal and the four other Britons were met by the Red
>Cross and told they were finally to be freed.
>
>
>
>Before they were released, the Americans asked the five men to sign a piece
>of paper confessing to links with al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
>
>
>
>Jamal said: "This was given to me first by the Americans and then by a
>British diplomat who asked if I agreed to sign it. I just said 'No'.
>
>
>
>"I would rather have stayed in Guantanamo than sign that paper.
>
>
>
>"That night, all the inmates sang Islamic songs for me, wishing me well.
>
>
>
>"The next morning, as I walked past them in chains for the last time, they
>shouted out: 'Don't forget us, Jamal. Tell the world, tell the Press, about
>what is happening here'."
>
>
>
>Jamal was the only one of the five men not to be arrested when they landed
>at RAF Northolt in West London.
>
>
>
>While Tarek Dergoul, 26, Ruhal Ahmed, 22, Asif Iqbal, 22, and Shafiq Rasul,
>26, were taken to Paddington Green police station, Jamal was questioned with
>his solicitor.
>
>
>
>"Then suddenly it was all over and they told me I could go," he said.
>
>
>
>Jamal has vowed to sue America for compensation for his two lost years.
>
>
>
>He said: "They deprived me of my liberty, interrogated and tortured me and
>let me go without even a word of apology."
>
>
>
>He also plans to campaign for other detainees to be freed and given human
>rights.
>
>
>
>He said: "I can speak freely at long last and let the world know what's
>happening there.
>
>
>
>TO be honest I'd rather go on a camping holiday with my family, but I know I
>have a grave responsibility to those still there.
>
>
>
>"That's why I want my story told in the Daily Mirror."
>
>
>
>Jamal, who has yet to be reunited with his two girls and a boy, said: "I
>want so much to hug my children and tell them I love them.
>
>
>
>"They think I have been on holiday. They don't know the truth.
>
>
>
>"I woke up last night when I heard the keys of someone returning to their
>hotel room. I woke up in a fright and thought one of the guards was coming
>to put on my chains.
>
>
>
>"I then realised that the light in the room was on. When locked up in our
>cages, the lights were on as well, and I thought to myself: 'You can sleep
>in the dark now' - and I switched it off."
>
>
>
>Jamal added: "One thing good about being in Guantanamo, was that it made you
>think. Time actually went very quickly.
>
>
>
>"There was always something or other on your mind. It didn't pay to dwell on
>things.
>
>
>
>"I tried not to think about my family for two years, because it hurt so
>much.
>
>
>
>"I tried to contain everything.
>
>
>
>"It was very difficult, but I survived - and I survived well."
>
>
>
>www.dailymirror.co.uk
>


Ill restrain from saying what i feel like now, make your feelings/thoughts public for everyone to see!
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  #2  
Old 2004-03-16, 10:15
johnnybrubacker johnnybrubacker is offline
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i remember they were rambling on about the geneva convention when they showed the american pows on iraqi tv
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  #3  
Old 2004-03-16, 13:21
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It has been a long time since I've read something which made me feel quite so sick! If this is the 'democracy' and 'freedom' Amercia and her allies want to bring to the world then I'd rather not be part of it. Horrific abuses of power such as this are simply disgusting. There needs to be a FULL SCALE INQUIRY into conduct at such POW (though they're not really) camps - conducted by an independent party/parties. The world needs to know about this!
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Old 2004-03-16, 13:58
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Maybe "Bowling of Columbine" has something to do with it, I guess.
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Old 2004-03-16, 14:47
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Thats odd, because two of the british I saw interviewed said they were treated no where near that bad, and only the lack of contact with their familys was untolerable.

oh wait, Daily Mirror.

sorry, whatever you feel about the americans thats THE WORST source for information ever >_<
Oh well, im sure the guy was well paid for his headline at least....

Look at the Daily Mirrors headlines today.
www.dailymirror.co.uk
"I HAD A LESBIAN FLING TO SAVE MY RELATIONSHIP "

Really, does that sound like a respectable source of information to you?

That said, looks like they are the only newspaper with an actualy interview at the moment
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2004-03-16 at 15:07.
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Old 2004-03-16, 17:26
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That sounds like a lot of bull****
(And i'm not exactly a fan of america or something)
It's not exactly rare to see victims and prisoners exaggerate and dramatize everything.
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Old 2004-03-16, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Thats odd, because two of the british I saw interviewed said they were treated no where near that bad, and only the lack of contact with their familys was untolerable.
I had heard that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
oh wait, Daily Mirror.
Oh dear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
sorry, whatever you feel about the americans thats THE WORST source for information ever >_<
I concur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Oh well, im sure the guy was well paid for his headline at least....
So do people like Paul Burell, the "rock" of Princess Diana. Hmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Look at the Daily Mirrors headlines today.
www.dailymirror.co.uk
"I HAD A LESBIAN FLING TO SAVE MY RELATIONSHIP "

Really, does that sound like a respectable source of information to you?
Darkflame shows a good point there.

Most tabloids are full of stuff designed to either cater to public opinion or to stoke it up. This seems to do a bit of both. Although the worst offender in many cases for me is the Daily Mail, their attacks on almost anything really piss me off.
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Old 2004-03-16, 18:27
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The English tabloids write stories that they know are false, and then they calculate if the profit they will make in extra sold copies is bigger than the loss they will make from compensating the person/organization that they lied about. I hope you understand what I tried to say there.

So they are not a reliable source of information.

Btw, there are more lands of the hypocrits, for example all middle-east nations. Did you know?
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Old 2004-03-16, 18:43
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Well, tried another UK source, but they basically copied it from the Mirror

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/leg...p?story=500723
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Old 2004-03-16, 18:58
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It basicaly works like this.

The guy is, quite rightly, pissed of with the Americans, so he exadurates his story to make them seem ultra evil.
He figures he stands more chance of getting a tablod paper to pay him, then he would if he tried to seek compansation from the US. (which they all should do, imo).

The Daily Mirror, in turn, encourage the exadurations because, well, it makes a great story.

If the daily mirror really believed all that stuff, then would they really publish stuff trival storys just days later??
And if they did that while believing it 100%, what kind of sickos must work there??

IMO, they were miss treated, almost certainly.
But this is not an accurate account.

I mean does this make sense in the slightest:

Quote:
>"One of the Brits told me he was asked why he was a Muslim, because he ought
>to be praying to the Queen."
????
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Old 2004-03-16, 23:48
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Quote:
>Rice and beans was the usual diet and the water was "filthy". Jamal added:
>"In Camp X-Ray it was yellow and in Delta it was black - the colour of
>Coca-Cola.
lol whats he complaining about it was coke then! And rice and beans, hey thats better than the public schools daily meal!

And hey, they even had water! The world is with few water left, they even used it to cook the rice and beans and even give comke to the prisoners! isnt it nice

really, jokes apart, thats serious. Know today now all the truth in http://www.davidicke.com , Ive read it! ive seen it! its real, buy the books and be revealed!!!!
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Old 2004-03-17, 00:05
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Rice and beans is the default meal in Brazil, actually. I don't know if it's like that in the other latin-american countries, but maybe so? Anyway, I eat that everyday twice per day, I don't see the torture in it... (of course we eat it with complements, but plain rice and beans isn't uncommon either).

Well, the interview certainly seems exaggerated.
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Old 2004-03-17, 00:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarKid
buy the books and be revealed!!!!
presumably not in public though.....you get arrested for that kind of thing....!

and yeah, Daily Mirror....say no more...
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Old 2004-03-17, 00:59
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Exxagerated or not. I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that mental tortue goes on in these places. Just because you don't beat someone round the head does not mean you can't destroy their mind - which is ultimately more damaging IMO
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Old 2004-03-17, 01:28
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Yes, buy honestly, do you really believe the Americans got a women in to smear
menstrual blood across a guys face?

A lot of this is, quite clearly, utter bullshit.

There was one bit of mental torture going on, that is, the fact they were confined and not knowing when/if they would get out.
That is HUGE mental torture that DID happen.
This sort of tablod stuff does nothing to help the case against the US, it only makes the legitmate case seem less then it actualy is.
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Old 2004-03-17, 02:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lembo
presumably not in public though.....you get arrested for that kind of thing....!

and yeah, Daily Mirror....say no more...
lol i have the book and i think i can advertise, and the site ive indicated is bout that so what diference does it make if i just point it out just to free whoever wants to be free against the opression that keeps the illusion
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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Old 2004-03-17, 04:51
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I don't think Americans are the good guys of the world, but it just seemed like some of the "evidence" given in the story were a little bit TOO unreal....almost propaganda like. I'm not saying it can't be true, I'm just having a difficult time believing the credibility of these sources.
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Old 2004-03-17, 04:56
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Axx, I'm rather surprised, or perhaps disappointed at your blind faith in these reputable (?) news sources that seem like nothing more than tabloids.

That being said, I would have a hard time being a guard at Guantanamo Bay, or any other detention camp. Knowing that some were responsible for 9/11, there is a good chance I'd have to kill them.
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Old 2004-03-17, 07:16
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Quote:
The men would return distraught. One said an American girl had smeared
>menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation.
*shudder*

you can't possibly take stories like that seriously.
what kind of woman would do such a thing, hmm?
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Old 2004-03-17, 10:38
Atresica Atresica is offline
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That's what I was thinking when I read that, I'm sure as hell I wouldn't o_O

Ohh please SGK, David Icke is the clown of the conspiracy theorists, if you believe that stuff you got to be really naieve -_-
Let's just say I read those books as comedy entertainment.

Axx, don't get worked up about what the yangkee says
And the other newssources look much more credible but than again, they 'only' complain about gunpointings and beatings, not women smearing... oh you know it.
I bet torture happened there, just not the Daily Mirror style.
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Old 2004-03-17, 14:06
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Now were in a hissy fit about words? I suppose "holy war" and "jihad" come to mind when talking about what the Islam has said towards the United States.

Oh, and us killing the Iraqi's, your numbers...don't want to beat a dead horse, but that's pretty interesting when compared to those killings by your Palestinian buddies.
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Old 2004-03-17, 14:10
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[QUOTE=Axx] You talk about reputable news source, you watch foxnews. That is the most rediculous, lying, untrustable news source on earth. Its popular with republicans because its unrelentingly biased in their favour. It makes up stories, or just completely turns around the truth. Fortunately its been taken of satelite, no longer available to europe/mid east.
About being a gaurd at gitmo, you just made it clear youd do worse than torture. QUOTE]

1.) I yield my response to that of Darkflames.

2.) I concur. I would love nothing more than to savagely release my rage upon them. But then again, that's not in my jurisdiction, I'll let God handle their punishment. Of course, if I ever get near Guantanamo Bay...
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  #23  
Old 2004-03-17, 14:45
Morden279 Morden279 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axx
I believe that happens. I also believe that asmuch as America would hate the world to witness what it does, it works the other way for them too.
I like the way you phrase your statements to make it sound like every single American is in on the act, very analytical.

Regards,
Morden
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  #24  
Old 2004-03-17, 17:08
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Both axx and Double-J actually seems to be badly informed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J
Knowing that some were responsible for 9/11, there is a good chance I'd have to kill them.
Kill GWB, then. (Please dont, Im opposing the death penalty, but if you wanna have someone to kill, well..)

Btw, when you say this you just sink yourself to their level. How do you think that they think? The same as you, of course. "Their bombings killed my family, if I had the fucking chance I would kill some americans"

Also Double-J, you cant get away from the fact, American wars have killed much more people than "muslim" terrorism.

Quote:
Now were in a hissy fit about words? I suppose "holy war" and "jihad" come to mind when talking about what the Islam has said towards the United States.
Islam never said this, but you probably don't know much about islam. I cant really blame you, because of the propaganda you are feeded with. Anyway, I think you have a fucked up view on islam, please tell me about it.

I mean if you use those phrases, axx could say the same, that Christians have a holy war against islam. Bullshit, you say. I say it isn't, the reason is that Bush said that USA was going on a crusade against terrorism in the middle east. The crusades were "holy wars" and I wonder how a person like Bush could get into his position when he uses words like this.

I am just trying to make you understand that what you accuse the middle east for, could also be aimed in the opposite direction, so you need to tone down the words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axx
You talk about reputable news source, you watch foxnews. That is the most rediculous, lying, untrustable news source on earth
Not really, it is one of many similar in "democratic" nations. If you go to Russia or Italy you will find the same kind of unreliable media, but a little difference is that the Russian and Italian are government-controlled. Anyway, a slight exhaggeration.


Quote:
The men would return distraught. One said an American girl had smeared
>menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation.
lol, dont you just wanna sit and wait for the tasty and nicely smelling liquids to be oiled into your face? The guy who said this probably has a perverted imagination.

Quote:
Its always been a western taliban (or is it the taliban admired the way america deals with those it hates, or actually those who come in the way of more $$$).
That's another fat exageration, how the fuck can you compare the US government to the taliban? Imagine the taliban guys seated in the white house and with its powers, then we wouldnt have much earth left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J
I'll let God handle their punishment.
So, you are opposing the death penalty then?
...
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Old 2004-03-17, 17:41
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CS2x CS2x is offline
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Yes, what state would the world be in if extreamist Islamic "governments" like the Taliban were in power in the White House? An appalling one.

The War on Iraq was wrong, but it was never put into motion because of a Christian "holy war" like you imply, Axx. Or at least, those who initiated it never claimed to be doing it for that cause. I find it disturbing ANYONE could start a war in the name of God, frankly.
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