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LBA1 Speedrunning Just how fast can LBA1 be done?

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  #1  
Old 2018-08-22, 17:30
Blake_Faythe's Avatar
Blake_Faythe Blake_Faythe is offline
Magic Level: Yellow Ball
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Newbie's questions

Hello

I am very new to speedrunning in general and especially LBA1. That's why I have several (certainly dumb) questions... Your answers, even the slightest one, are gladly welcomed and will help me getting started!


First of all, I'm concerned about the "version" of the game I'm running. I currently play on a DosBox environment, with an image of the good ol' game CD (made easier via the D-Fend Reloaded tool) on Win7. The game seems to be running without major lags, at normal speed, except for the menu animations (the blue flames in the menu boxes) which really are sped up compared to what I see from your runs. But this does not seem to affect navigation though.
Thus I was wondering what is the version of your game. I discovered Gog made a Windows-playable version, is this the one you use? If so, is mine OK?

Then, I am in awe of the new trick (the "Hologlitch"?) that makes sub-30 minutes runs possible! However, I have hard times understanding how it can work... Do we really know "what happens" behind those teleportations? How did we find the exact locations, orientation and timing on which it can be performed? Do you think more skips are to come with the use of the Hologlitch, or have we already found the extent of this trick?

Finally, I have some third-party-softwares-related questions!
What soft do you use to stream/record your runs? A classic OBS?
What soft do you use to have your time splits? Do you manually "hand-split", with a howtkey, or does a "game-memory-reader" exist, to auto-split?


I'm currently practicing and trying getting used to the road I saw on Kash's and banta's runs submitted on speedrun.com. By the way, sadly, this new route made very cool speedrun guides (posted on this forum) obsolete, as well as packs of saves made for practice. But for the moment, the videos of the runs are enough to start with!

Anyway, I succeeded performing most of the tricks for the moment, yet I have hard times finding the good positioning for some Hologlitches, especially the one that allows us to get the trump of Gawley and the medallion. Surely some explanations about the trick and some practice will help
And I'll definitely check the LBA Discord soon, thanks for the link, Kash!


I apologize for the lenght of this post >< I hope my english is understandable, thank you very much for reading and (I hope!) for all your answers
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  #2  
Old 2018-09-08, 16:34
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kash kash is offline
lba 4 life
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: switzerland
Posts: 57
Hi!
Sorry for late reply! Sooo happy someone wants to speedrun lba1!!

Ok so I think most people use the steam version or GOG. Btw if u buy the enhanced version on steam you also get the original one. I also used the CD version with lbawin but i dont use it for runs since loading time are faster if i remember correctly. You should be fine with the version you are using.


I'm glad you enjoy the hologlitch! It was discovered by Kuky on lba 2 and then we started using it with lba1 and made so many discoveries. How it works exactly I dont know. Most of the uses for it were found through trial and error. Once we knew the potential of the holomap we strarted using it everywhere. I still think we can find some more.

I use OBS to stream and livesplit for timer. I know somone made an autosplitter for lba2 but i never used it. I split manualy since there aren't that many split anyway. You should definitly stream your runs and even your practice, it would be awsome!

I'VE BEEN WAITING YEARS FOR SOMEONE TO SHOW GRATITUDE TOWARDS THE SPEEDRUN GUIDE XD. It was made some years ago by amnesti and it's really well done and complete( at least for the strats back then).

The Gawley's horn holo can be tricky. You need to start holding h just before jumping. Then hold h and the jump key until Twinsen is in the air then release the keys. If you do it wrong , Twinsen wont jump in the air. It usualy takes 2 fades( cycle) of holomap to work if I remember correctly. As for your position, try not to be to close from the door and your angle should be facing between the wall and the door. btw I think i failed it once in my wr run lol XD.

Please! don't apoligize for posting a long msg! In the contrary your message really made my day!
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  #3  
Old 2018-09-10, 00:13
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MevX MevX is offline
Amnesti
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Unity Island
Posts: 365
Hello and welcome! I guess i would share my thoughts on your questions aswell.

Like kash said most people run either the steam version or the GOG version, and they are the default running version for speedrunning. You said the menu animations are speed up, which makes me think it might be a cycles problem. The GOG version runs at 80000 cycles, which is what i think every windows version should run at to avoid inconsistencies. Keep it at that cycle amount, and it should be fine. Although if im not mistaken, i think the mac version runs at 100 000 cycles. I think the cycle amount is the important thing here, and not necessarily if your version is GOG/steam or not.

I'm really not an expert on the whole holo glitch, but maybe i can try explaining it with the risk of giving wrong information. Simply put something happens when we hold H, which puts twinsen in places he shouldn't be in. When we do it in the library, we put twinsen inside the stairs which makes us clip into it. When we do it on the outer sides of the map, it too puts twinsen in a place he shouldn't be in. The difference here is that putting twinsen in either the bottom left or the bottom right part of the screen puts him in a negative integer position, which makes the game put him at the max value, i.e the other side of the screen. Something like that. This is why we can't do the same thing on the other top sides of the screen.

I don't think there is any trick that has been truly found to its extent, and especially not the holo glitch. I think it might still be the most promising glitch right now in terms of finding new time skips. In terms of software and splitting, i use OBS and Llanfair which i do manual splitting with.
If you are serious about speedrunning lba 1, I could definately update the save pack to accommodate the new route. I appreciate your comment toward my guide, but I don't see myself updating it unfortunately. Personally i found it a bit too descriptive anyway.

I hope you visit the discord, cause I'm always happy to talk about lba speedrunning there. Gl
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  #4  
Old 2018-09-12, 01:37
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banta546 banta546 is offline
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I'll throw my thoughts in about the Holo-Glitch too, why not.

*GEOMETRY*
There's 4 tyes of geometry involved with the holo-glitch, these are
- regular walls
- slopes
- sprites (doors, NPCs, Funfrock busts etc.)
- the invisible walls at the edge of the scene (or EOS)

The sprites and EOS have a particular attribute that makes them kind of "soft" and won't stop Twinsen dead in his tracks if he tries to clip inside them, unlike regular walls which will just stop you dead.


*SCREEN CHANGE*
So every time we bring up the holomap is has to load up this new screen with the globe on it, and every time it disappears it has to load up the current scene again (map, cube, whatever).
When the current scene is being loaded, the game only accounts for Twinsens current trajectory and not his current position. We can take advantage of this by moving Twinsen at the highest speed possible (start of a jump or saber backflip) which will push him far enough into the sprite/EOS before the game has a chance to push him back out again.
So if he ends up inside of a sprite or a wall, he'll simply clip to the top of it. Or if there's a loadzone *inside* of a sprite, he'll hit this and be taken to another scene instead.
Or if he ends up outside of the scene completely, he'll be warped to the opposite side because of an underflow (which only works from bottom to top, since the area twinsen can move in must be larger than the scene itself, but that's just speculation). More on that later.

*POSITION*
How to set this up is important depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
So let's start with the EOS clip (as used in the speedrun to skip the locksmith/beating up a clone on Principal island)
Here we use the holo-glitch on the EOS to push us into and on top of the adjacent wall.
The two things to be aware of is the direction Twinsen is facing, and when you trigger the holomap screen-fades to appear.



The trick is to angle Twinsen so that when he jumps and you trigger the holomap, his acceleration will force him into the EOS when the scene reloads, which will then push him back out at a new position. In this case, on top of the fence.
The timing window for this is hard to put into text so have a look at my speedrun (which has button inputs displayed) or some of my tutorial videos.

Next we'll look at clipping into doors (used in the speedrun for entering the principal fortress/teleportation center)
This works in much the same way but instead we use a regular wall in place of the EOS.
The trick here is to angle Twinsen so that he's jumping into an adjacent wall and not the sprite itself, because if twinsen is in contact with a sprite he simply won't jump at all.



Here you can see that Twinsen is pushing himself into a wall, but the wall is rejecting him, so his acceleration means he's pushed into the door sprite instead.
Important note: it's possible to clip inside of a door with a bad angle, which means that he will be inside the door but he won't be touching the loadzone inside it, so he'll be stuck.

Okay, the Pacman warp. Perhaps the easiest to execute. (used in the speedrun in lots of places, it's very distinct )
Used in the same way as the other two glitches, but this time the goal is to push Twinsen so far into the EOS that he effectively goes out of bounds.
This is simply achieved by timing the jump and the execution of the holomap like before, but angling Twinsen to jump straight into the invisible wall.



This is how I see it in my head, so it may not be accurate, but it seems to be consistent with the theory.
So in the illustration, when Twinsens position becomes a negative value by pacman warping, the game gets confused and reads the value as a high one and puts him on a place on the far edge of the screen where he is still technically in bounds.

All scenes in the game have the same inbounds size, but in smaller places like houses, this is just empty space with a kill plane at the bottom. So using this glitch will most likely just get Twinsen killed unless it's on a big area like Lupinburg or the Hamalayi Bunker.

Also important to note that if performing this glitch puts Twinsen somewhere where he is inside of geometry, then he will simply clip to the top of it like in the other holo-glitches.
And if there's no terrain at all, he'll plummet to his death.

And finally the slope glitch. (used in the Principal library)
Same principal as the other glitches, only this time it's applied vertically instead of horizontally.
The timing on this can be a little more tricky than the others, but the method is effectively the same. When standing on a slope (or stairs) and using the holo-glitch, the game treats floor the same as walls. Fortunately, the floors are only 1px deep, so it's relatively easy to move Twinsens lower hitbox through them before they have a chance to push him back out since only his feet making contact seems to matter. And since he's falling, he's moving fast enough to make it through.



Places where this won't work are when the floor you're attempting to clip through is a sprite (like the entrance to Fortress Island or the Rabbibunny hole in Hamalayi) and where the floor is directly on top of the bottom of the scene/the kill plane.

There's an extension to this glitch that has been dubbed the SamClip, but I've talked enough already, so I'll save that for a future post.

I think that's everything...?
Tell me if I forgot anything.
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  #5  
Old 2018-09-17, 22:35
Blake_Faythe's Avatar
Blake_Faythe Blake_Faythe is offline
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Wow thanks guys for those awesome replies! It warms my heart and makes me even more motivated knowing all the efforts you put into these strats and explanations!

Regarding my version, I think I'll compare my loading time and see if there's a difference. But for the moment, I'm not skilled enough for it to make a difference x)
Thanks for the advice, MevX, it was indeed a cycles problem. I was able to fix it by lower the cycle value at 80 000. It works like a charm now, and the game seems to be still running at a normal pace. It even seems to make the game avoid some nasty lags which occurred when Twinsen is falling from a hedge (this did not happened at all on a shitty laptop, which definitely confirms the thesis of the CPU cycle value).

Wahoo that's one hell of a "why not", banta!
Thank you very much, your answer is very clear and your animations make it even more easier to understand, that's awesome, I would never have expected something like this!
I have a better understanding of the "bouncing" effect, that will help me have better position and angle! I have hard times performing the hologlitch to enter doors (the Principal fortress especially, ofter makes me stuck in the air and unable to move at all if I'm poorly positioned, which results in a forced reload). I'll practice this a lot more knowing the technique behind it (and I've my library of screenshot for almost each hologlitch, my cheatsheet to get a good positioning, yay \o/)!
And now that I think about it, there's another one hologlitch I think you did not mention... Well that's maybe not a "real" hologlitch, but it uses the principles behind it to reach a trigger (you do not seem to bounce on a wall, though). I especially think about the one when you enter the fortress on Principal (around 8:35 in your run submitted on speedrun.com), whilst you're walking literally in the door. Do you do some sort of "teleportation"? Because it seems really easy finding the trigger watching your run, however when in practice, that's kinda tricky...
Well, this glitch surely opens a new range of possibilities, maybe I'll get to find new things too, who knows!

Thanks for the software tips! I've downloaded OBS and LiveSplit! Time for setup now (:
I'll definitely try to stream (depending on my hardware too...), never done this before, but that should be definitely nice to do! And that will give a purpose to my Twitch account too!

Haha reading the guide was definitely worth it, it's great! I first read it before really seriously watching new runs (hologlitch's runs were not yet posted on speedrun.com anyway), and liked it
for its completeness, actually. I must admit, I was quite disappointed, when I found out that the route radically changed with the hologlitch. But the input display on banta's runs helped me a lot figuring out how some glitches were made (especially the ascension of Twinsen, using the ENTER key). So I understand updating would be a huge project.
I made my own save pack (~40 saves) following the route used in the new runs. Every save sure has a silly name, but it works well for my practice. Obviously, I can share it, if anyone is interested (:

Thanks again for the tip of the Gawley's horn holo! I practiced this trick a lot and I my success rate improves a lot!

Once again, thank you very much, these three replies really made me happy! I'm very excited about doing my real first splitted run, diving in the world of speedrunning with LBA!
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  #6  
Old 2018-09-19, 19:01
banta546's Avatar
banta546 banta546 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2018
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I knew I forgot something important, I totally glossed over the carrot door.

This was a big obstacle for a while yet the answer was pretty simple.
The problem was that the load zone wasn't in the door itself, it was a few steps behind it. All attempts just ended with Twinsen stuck in the door unable to move. This happens because of the jump.
When Twinsen gains height while also clipping into a sprite that has a solid wall on the top of it, he'll just be stuck in a perpetual falling animation unable to do anything. (The most scary one being the brundle door)
Fortunately, backflipping with the saber in athletic (dubbed the FlipClip) keeps Twinsens feet perched firmly on the ground and prevents him from getting stuck.



Most, if not all, doors are too chunky to get through in one cycle, but after several executions he'll make it to the other side and hit the load zone to the next hemisphere.

And a side note. It's probably not worth anything but I'll share it anyway. The holomap isn't the only item that can trigger this glitch, but it is definitely (as far as we know) the most convenient).



The Principal fortress door is the same as any other, except you're doing it from behind the door instead of in front of it.



This is the piece of wall that makes it possible. It's difficult to gauge where it is, but it's the only bit of wall that you can walk across without being stuck walking on the spot. So keep tapping left and/or right until Twinsen skirts across it freely.
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