Didier Chanfray Kickstarter 20 May 2019

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by CS2x

Oh gosh. Scarily I literally have no memory of that.

Is that why you've never listened to my music since? I don't just do white noise - this one composed for a short animation for example is very friendly, and totally inspired by the LBA and LBA2 soundtracks (hence why I'm posting it here...hahaha) -

https://soundcloud.com/robert-logan/ending-scene

Really nice!

[danielsan]

Originally Posted by Neko

by any chance do you do miyago do?

Haha no maybe i should try sometime. Ive never even seen those movies.

I prefer fighting with magic ball and saber

[Double-J]

I too join the chorus of those disappointed with the end result. I don't have the acumen to delve into modulation and harmonics and all that, but from an untrained ear, it just doesn't sound great to me. Others have already hit on the glaring omission of songs that would have been ideal for the intended idea behind the project.

To put it into perspective, like many of you (I'm sure), I can pop the LBA OSTs into my headphones throughout the day and it never gets old. The tunes are catchy, and sure, they are paired with nostalgia, but I've had people who have never played LBA who have commented on enjoying the music in passing. This symphonic suite? I've had to force myself to listen to it, and it is honestly unpleasant background noise. I've actually turned it off because it was an annoyance.

I'm waiting for the physical version to arrive, though of course I'm much less excited about it since we've received the digital rewards and now know what the finished product will sound like. Still, for those wondering, I received the email asking to confirm my shipping address about 6 months ago, but haven't heard anything new since.

For me, the one bright spot is that we're all coming out of the woodwork to chime in. That's been a very pleasant surprise, even if the project did not ultimately turn out as pleasantly as we'd have hoped.

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Double-J

I too join the chorus of those disappointed with the end result. I don't have the acumen to delve into modulation and harmonics and all that, but from an untrained ear, it just doesn't sound great to me. Others have already hit on the glaring omission of songs that would have been ideal for the intended idea behind the project.

To put it into perspective, like many of you (I'm sure), I can pop the LBA OSTs into my headphones throughout the day and it never gets old. The tunes are catchy, and sure, they are paired with nostalgia, but I've had people who have never played LBA who have commented on enjoying the music in passing. This symphonic suite? I've had to force myself to listen to it, and it is honestly unpleasant background noise. I've actually turned it off because it was an annoyance.

I'm waiting for the physical version to arrive, though of course I'm much less excited about it since we've received the digital rewards and now know what the finished product will sound like. Still, for those wondering, I received the email asking to confirm my shipping address about 6 months ago, but haven't heard anything new since.

For me, the one bright spot is that we're all coming out of the woodwork to chime in. That's been a very pleasant surprise, even if the project did not ultimately turn out as pleasantly as we'd have hoped.

^ That. It is SO important that we're all sharing ideas freely here!!

[Polaris]

OMG, Double-J himself !!!!

Are you still looking for a PS1 copy of LBA1 ? Few weeks after you left, I found one in a shop here, I can mail it to you if you want

[Lupin]

All the negativity here makes me sad. I find it surprising that the overall response seems so negative. I really enjoyed the symphonic suite. I listened to it many times, and it made me feel a mix of familiar emotions related to the games, as well as new emotions. It reminds me of Ghibli movies at times (and I love the music in those), and other movies where the music is triggering strong emotions. I love "The Empire" in particular, with the build-up to that powerful brass section, and then transition into the more familiar melody we all know. I also like the coherence of the album as a whole, I really enjoy listening to it from start to finish, as a single piece. As for the "piercing" lead synth that's used on "Emerald Moon" and "FT LAps", I understand that it's a bit radical, and I'm not too surprised by the backlash it generates here, but to be honest I actually enjoy it.

Maybe it's because I'm too simple. Maybe my hearing is not trained as a musician's and I can't notice the imperfections. I don't know what it is, but the almost unanimous negativity here really disturbs me. And now I find it hard to just appreciate the album again without thinking about all those negative comments.

It also makes me sad for Philippe. I mean, you all assumed that he wouldn't read this, or that nobody in the LBA team is reading this forum, but how can you be sure of that? I know that if I were him, I would probably want to have some feedback on my work. I'm usually advocating for honest feedback, even if negative. But the type of "brutal honesty" here (if it's what it is) is a bit too much. I don't know, it feels like a lot of it is disproportionately harsh and ill-founded. And if it's just a matter of taste, then what's the need to be so vocal about you not liking it? Does it help anyone? For you musicians out there, SGK, Cs2x, Neko, how would you like if people wrote a similar thread about your work?

[SpaceGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Lupin

All the negativity here makes me sad. I find it surprising that the overall response seems so negative. I really enjoyed the symphonic suite. I listened to it many times, and it made me feel a mix of familiar emotions related to the games, as well as new emotions. It reminds me of Ghibli movies at times (and I love the music in those), and other movies where the music is triggering strong emotions. I love "The Empire" in particular, with the build-up to that powerful brass section, and then transition into the more familiar melody we all know. I also like the coherence of the album as a whole, I really enjoy listening to it from start to finish, as a single piece. As for the "piercing" lead synth that's used on "Emerald Moon" and "FT LAps", I understand that it's a bit radical, and I'm not too surprised by the backlash it generates here, but to be honest I actually enjoy it.

Maybe it's because I'm too simple. Maybe my hearing is not trained as a musician's and I can't notice the imperfections. I don't know what it is, but the almost unanimous negativity here really disturbs me. And now I find it hard to just appreciate the album again without thinking about all those negative comments.

It also makes me sad for Philippe. I mean, you all assumed that he wouldn't read this, or that nobody in the LBA team is reading this forum, but how can you be sure of that? I know that if I were him, I would probably want to have some feedback on my work. I'm usually advocating for honest feedback, even if negative. But the type of "brutal honesty" here (if it's what it is) is a bit too much. I don't know, it feels like a lot of it is disproportionately harsh and ill-founded. And if it's just a matter of taste, then what's the need to be so vocal about you not liking it? Does it help anyone? For you musicians out there, SGK, Cs2x, Neko, how would you like if people wrote a similar thread about your work?

You should definitely keep enjoying them!
Our comments were in no way meant to harm those who like it.

Heck, even I am enjoying it sometimes, for the bits I liked.
I dont think anybody here said its a 100% failure.

It just isn't what was promised, thats all. Its a new thing.
As a new thing, it can be enjoyed on its own.

LBA has a legacy and a heritage, and for most of us its almost a sacred thing.
You don't mess with it because it can mess with deeply rooted feelings.

For those who really wanted that promise to be fulfilled have pretty much every right to be disappointed. We'll probably NEVER have the orchestral music as we hoped for. Not in this life, anyway. And yes, most have decided not to voice it exactly for the reasons you have mentioned, we're aware of it - then again, this thread is all about the project. It's not like we are witch hunting the guy and shoving it on his face our opinions spamming it everywhere. We anticipated, we paid money, some of us a LOT of money (800 euro is not a joke), we have waited anxiously, with several delays, and now its finally here: so its in every sense rightful to just write whether you liked it or not. I don't see how this compares to random people, some amateur, some professional, who are just sharing their music to whoever bothers to take their time to listen.

[Neko]

Originally Posted by Lupin

All the negativity here makes me sad. I find it surprising that the overall response seems so negative. I really enjoyed the symphonic suite. I listened to it many times, and it made me feel a mix of familiar emotions related to the games, as well as new emotions. It reminds me of Ghibli movies at times (and I love the music in those), and other movies where the music is triggering strong emotions. I love "The Empire" in particular, with the build-up to that powerful brass section, and then transition into the more familiar melody we all know. I also like the coherence of the album as a whole, I really enjoy listening to it from start to finish, as a single piece. As for the "piercing" lead synth that's used on "Emerald Moon" and "FT LAps", I understand that it's a bit radical, and I'm not too surprised by the backlash it generates here, but to be honest I actually enjoy it.

Maybe it's because I'm too simple. Maybe my hearing is not trained as a musician's and I can't notice the imperfections. I don't know what it is, but the almost unanimous negativity here really disturbs me. And now I find it hard to just appreciate the album again without thinking about all those negative comments.

It also makes me sad for Philippe. I mean, you all assumed that he wouldn't read this, or that nobody in the LBA team is reading this forum, but how can you be sure of that? I know that if I were him, I would probably want to have some feedback on my work. I'm usually advocating for honest feedback, even if negative. But the type of "brutal honesty" here (if it's what it is) is a bit too much. I don't know, it feels like a lot of it is disproportionately harsh and ill-founded. And if it's just a matter of taste, then what's the need to be so vocal about you not liking it? Does it help anyone? For you musicians out there, SGK, Cs2x, Neko, how would you like if people wrote a similar thread about your work?

I wish people would write threads like this over my work.


but, you are partly right. It does feel a bit awkward. But I am also a fan. What if LBA 3 was a let down, should we be soft about it because we may know Fred in person? I don't think so. We love them, and because of that it's easy for something to disapoint.

Having said it, I think the amount of time to reimagine these tracks and the result it pretty cool in a way, it is much apreciated. But you can also question some of the choices that were made. And you do realize it got a lot of money. So we were right fully expecting something big. And since some tunes like empire were done right, I think we can complain a little when some other tracks don't live up to that lvl

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by Polaris

OMG, Double-J himself !!!!

Are you still looking for a PS1 copy of LBA1 ? Few weeks after you left, I found one in a shop here, I can mail it to you if you want

Hey Polly! Thanks for the offer, but I no longer have anything to play it on anymore, but I do have the GoG versions of LBA 1 + 2 now so I think I'm set.

Originally Posted by Lupin

It also makes me sad for Philippe. I mean, you all assumed that he wouldn't read this, or that nobody in the LBA team is reading this forum, but how can you be sure of that? I know that if I were him, I would probably want to have some feedback on my work. I'm usually advocating for honest feedback, even if negative. But the type of "brutal honesty" here (if it's what it is) is a bit too much.

If Philippe reads these forums, as I suspect he has (at least previously), he knows that we hold his work in very high esteem. I doubt the Kickstarter project happens if there weren't enough fans willing to financially support the end result, which was hearing the maestro offering a new interpretation of the scores which we love.

Originally Posted by Lupin

I don't know, it feels like a lot of it is disproportionately harsh and ill-founded. And if it's just a matter of taste, then what's the need to be so vocal about you not liking it? Does it help anyone? For you musicians out there, SGK, Cs2x, Neko, how would you like if people wrote a similar thread about your work?

It confirms that the end result was not what we were expecting, nor necessarily hoping for. You may enjoy it. I'm very glad you do. However, just like some of my other favorite musicians or artists, they produce works of varying quality. It isn't an indictment on their entire body of work, but of the specific work in question.


In my opinion, the symphonic suite is a disappointment for reasons which have been documented above.

Originally Posted by Neko

Having said it, I think the amount of time to reimagine these tracks and the result it pretty cool in a way, it is much apreciated. But you can also question some of the choices that were made.

This is exactly correct. We appreciate what Philippe has put into this project. It is not a slight against him personally to critique his work. If anything, it only affirms that his LBA soundtracks were masterpieces, and that any subsequent performance will be judged in comparison to the high standard of the originals.

Originally Posted by Neko

And you do realize it got a lot of money. So we were right fully expecting something big. And since some tunes like empire were done right, I think we can complain a little when some other tracks don't live up to that lvl

I backed only at the 30€ level, so I don't feel disappointed for myself. However, for those like Quetch who went in at a substantial cost, the communications from Wayo Records has been nothing short of a disappointment at best and delinquent at worst. Pandemic or otherwise, they have left backers without any substantive information on how to go about claiming their rewards.


We all know there are risks with a Kickstarter, sure, but in this case the project came to fruition and whether the end result of the project itself is good or bad (opinion, of course), the promised rewards (especially at Quetch's level) should be handled with urgency and openness by Wayo.

[SpaceGuitarist]

True. There are so many bands and artists for which I like their first albums or a few songs and then they went shite imo. Sometimes, they were great until the band split up, then decades later they return and make a reunion tour with a new album but the reunion was never the same as their young days. It happens.

[CS2x]

Originally Posted by Lupin

All the negativity here makes me sad. I find it surprising that the overall response seems so negative. I really enjoyed the symphonic suite. I listened to it many times, and it made me feel a mix of familiar emotions related to the games, as well as new emotions. It reminds me of Ghibli movies at times (and I love the music in those), and other movies where the music is triggering strong emotions. I love "The Empire" in particular, with the build-up to that powerful brass section, and then transition into the more familiar melody we all know. I also like the coherence of the album as a whole, I really enjoy listening to it from start to finish, as a single piece. As for the "piercing" lead synth that's used on "Emerald Moon" and "FT LAps", I understand that it's a bit radical, and I'm not too surprised by the backlash it generates here, but to be honest I actually enjoy it.

Maybe it's because I'm too simple. Maybe my hearing is not trained as a musician's and I can't notice the imperfections. I don't know what it is, but the almost unanimous negativity here really disturbs me. And now I find it hard to just appreciate the album again without thinking about all those negative comments.

It also makes me sad for Philippe. I mean, you all assumed that he wouldn't read this, or that nobody in the LBA team is reading this forum, but how can you be sure of that? I know that if I were him, I would probably want to have some feedback on my work. I'm usually advocating for honest feedback, even if negative. But the type of "brutal honesty" here (if it's what it is) is a bit too much. I don't know, it feels like a lot of it is disproportionately harsh and ill-founded. And if it's just a matter of taste, then what's the need to be so vocal about you not liking it? Does it help anyone? For you musicians out there, SGK, Cs2x, Neko, how would you like if people wrote a similar thread about your work?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Others have responded to you well, and I agree with them that you should feel totally free to continue enjoying this music! Don't let our comments bother you. I will add that I hear what you're saying, and if someone wrote negative things about my music, I would indeed feel discouraged most of the time. This is why, in a majority of cases nowadays, I don't write anything anywhere about music I don't like. What's the point? I know what it's like to work hard on music for a long period and to have it enter the world to very little attention. Worst still, after that, is when people criticise it with what seems like a minimal attempt to understand its purpose. (For a silly example, it just happened to me the other day - I've been researching sounds that inhibit tinnitus for a long time, and uploaded a video of sound therapy to help people. It's not meant to be "normal" listening music - it's tones that are known to reduce or soothe tinnitus used by various therapy programs, although the frequencies I programmed have some differences and are easier on the ears. Anyway, after spending months on this and uploading it, some guy simply wrote underneath within a day that "this sound is totally sh*t and annoying." LOL. Why say that? I gave the soundscape for free! Just move along if you don't have T or if the sounds aren't to your tastes. You're not paying for it anyway, and there's plenty else out there to enjoy...) On the other hand, I hear what Jesse is saying: it's nice to get some reaction for one's music - let alone an entire thread! :-)

But overall what you've shared is why I almost didn't write my post. I still sometimes wonder if I should delete it. In the end though, I wanted to re-join this lovely community and be part of the occasion. It also seemed wrong to lie, and to say you're disappointed in something without giving any reasons isn't so helpful in a discussion, especially if you understand and can express musical reasons for your feelings. It's interesting to discuss created things and to process why certain choices work or don't work for you. What differentiates this too, though, is that some people invested quite a lot of money into the project - which was advertised a certain way at the outset - and the problems arguably aren't entirely down to "artistic choice", but rather the lack of an orchestra doing the pieces we hoped or expected would be done. For the reasons you said and I shared, I wouldn't write if Philippe had simply shared some new music that wasn't to my tastes. A crowdfund though is a slightly different context.

Linked to the above is when I'm critiqued for paid music I do as the creation is occurring. Now, that is a different story. I'm very happy to be criticised by directors or artists when they've hired me to supply music for their project. Indeed, it is an essential part of the process. Often you'll write a cue you like and the director will simply say "no" and you'll have to bin the work entirely and start again (though with some directors you build a rapport and that rarely happens after a point.) Either way, though, that's fine and it's easy not to take it personally.

This project sits in a strange place between those two worlds in some way, right? Because we invested from the outset. I welcome artistic change and want to be challenged, and usually an artist "owes" me nothing. I hate that entitled, critical spirit that snipes at bands or artists when expectations aren't met. At the same time, this particular project had funding put in to make it happen, and didn't emerge the way I expected given the descriptive context. This isn't even about one artist either: it may not be Mr. Vachey's role that caused this, but the company responsible for arranging / recording / orchestration. I don't know. I'm not decided on the issue either way, because the line is blurry between artistic choice and something not matching a description (if, say, in an alternate universe no live orchestra was recorded at all, but great string libraries were used in software, and it sounded great...what happens then? it's not what was promised, but the artistic choice worked!)...again, I wouldn't usually wouldn't post such a long post of that kind - but I hope my thoughts help you understand where I was coming from... ;-)

[Lupin]

Originally Posted by CS2x

But overall what you've shared is why I almost didn't write my post. I still sometimes wonder if I should delete it.

Actually yeah, you've expressed that in your first post, and you were careful about trying not to be hurtful, which I really appreciate, and makes your posts different from the others. Besides, your comments about the music were the most accurate and constructive. That's the kind of feedback I'd like on my projects. My grippe is with the avalanche of more aggressive, lower effort criticism that went on afterwards.

Originally Posted by CS2x

In the end though, I wanted to re-join this lovely community and be part of the occasion.

Yeah, that's the good part of this, at least it's triggering some activity on the forum!

Originally Posted by CS2x

This project sits in a strange place between those two worlds in some way, right? Because we invested from the outset. I welcome artistic change and want to be challenged, and usually an artist "owes" me nothing...

(...)

...what happens then? it's not what was promised, but the artistic choice worked!)...again, I wouldn't usually wouldn't post such a long post of that kind - but I hope my thoughts help you understand where I was coming from... ;-)

Yeah, thanks for the clarifications, it makes a lot of sense, indeed, crowdfunding puts the project in a complicated place where you have to deal with the backers expectations. I think that's why I didn't want to invest a large sum on it to begin with (I think I went for the 30€ one, but I don't remember exactly).

I agree with you that the description was misleading. Again, I'm no musician, so I can't easily hear when it's a real instrument and when it's a sample from a keyboard. I'm hearing physical orchestra instruments in all the tracks (maybe I'm wrong?), yeah, there are additional synths on top of it, but what's wrong with that? Orchestral music doesn't have to be limited to classical music (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3B...nnel=BBCRadio1).
It's not exactly breaking the promise as far as I'm concerned, as I was kind of expecting this from the start.
Ok, they didn't remake every single track of the original games, but maybe it's more a problem of underestimating the cost of the project, and having complications due to the covid, rather than doing things in bad faith. That being said, they could have communicated better about it, if that's the case.

Originally Posted by Double-J

I backed only at the 30€ level, so I don't feel disappointed for myself. However, for those like Quetch who went in at a substantial cost, the communications from Wayo Records has been nothing short of a disappointment at best and delinquent at worst. Pandemic or otherwise, they have left backers without any substantive information on how to go about claiming their rewards.


We all know there are risks with a Kickstarter, sure, but in this case the project came to fruition and whether the end result of the project itself is good or bad (opinion, of course), the promised rewards (especially at Quetch's level) should be handled with urgency and openness by Wayo.

Agreed with that, I'm clearly disappointed at how Wayô Record handled the communication on this, and all the technical difficulties people have encountered when trying to download the album, not to mention that they are more prone to email me about things I don't care about (I hate spam), rather than giving technical support. I'm not sure I would invest in another project where they are involved.