The next LBA - how do you see it

[Exie]

The moment of truth. Share your vision of the next LBA %))

1. Is monsters and items respawning (regeneration) a good feature?? Originally it was made to save some memory of our weak PCs.
Or are you fond of cleaning the level totally, like you did it in Doom & Warcraft?? %))

2. Do you need the clover Mario-style system?? Because it was originally made to compensate rare game saves in LBA1.
When I had ability to save the game wherever I wanted in LBA2, I hadn't lost any clover during the entire game.

3. Will you like clever and evil monsters?? LBA2 is.. simple. Poor gamer can hide behind the corner and shoot when monster stops attack him.
So, here's the subsequent:

3a. Are "Normal" and "Difficult" (no "Easy", like Blizzard made in WC3 %)) suitable for adventure game?? Much more evil, clever and healthy monsters on "Difficult", lesser items.. light-mood adventure game turns into Doom "ultraviolence" massacre %)E)

4. More "quest" genre - will it be a good feature??..

5. Your attitude to puzzles. Can the solving of 5 or 6 brain-breaking Myst-like puzzles make your walking thru game more pleasant??

Answer these or suggest your own features %)) Have a fun %))

[Exie]

Maybe you'll give a good idea to Fred. Or maybe a new unofficial sequel will bear. I'm thinking on taking part in one campaign. I even did not decided.

[Necdilzor]

1.yes
2.no
3.yes
4.yes
5.yes

[elmuerte]

I see it like this: http://www.adventure-eu.com/forum/in...sg5554#msg5554

[Exie]

Originally Posted by El_Muerte

I see it like this

Your essay is great %)) Your prize is well-earned %))

Thus, I have several questions on this. I'll try to structure them.
- HUDless interface - what are its pros and cons?? And what is this then: "It would be great to be able to look up and see Emerald Moon".
- Don't you think that spells are the first steps to RPG?? %))
- Where has Active mode gone?? Do you want to make hero run with Shift key?? %))
- Does this stuff have any relations to the LBA3 development??.. Or it is just for fun.

[Echomote]

2.
I think the save game style of LBA2 (and LBA1 PS version?) does ruin gameplay, it makes it way too easy... If its gonna have that kinda saving then it might aswell get rid of the clovers altogether

my answer would have been totally oposite a few years ago

[Exie]

Originally Posted by Dan2552

(and LBA1 PS version?)

What is this??..

Originally Posted by Dan2552

does ruin gameplay, it makes it way too easy... If its gonna have that kinda saving

Heh, Doom was the first game with advanced save system I've seen, but I cannot say it was easy %))
Naturally, LBA2 isn't a hard arcade game. But as for me, I never liked to spend hours trying to kill the boss %)) (Of course, I've killed cyberdemon with shotgun, but it is an another story %))

[Caleb]

I enjoy the LBA-games because of the atmosphere, characters, world and story. The action part of both LBA-games is poor to say the least. To judge distances and to throw the ball exactly where you want it wasn't the easiest thing to do. Even in athletic mode Twinsen was slow when turning around and before he actually started running, making combat against enemies sometimes frustrating as well as.. well, boring.

If there ever will be a third LBA I don't want LBA2 with improved graphics. Because of todays technology I hope for a completley new game "mechanics". Have you guys played Kameo for the Xbox360? Something along those lines.

Remove the magic ball. He is a wizard, right? Give him spells! He can keep the sword for melee combat.

The AI in LBA1 and LBA2 is pretty bad. It kind of has to be because of the poor controls. Imagine supersmart enemies who flank you, take alternative routes, find you if you hide and don't stop chasing you until you or they are dead. That would pretty much ruin LBA1&2, but should be a "given" for LBA3. But it requires good controls.

That's about it for the action part. Lets move on..

There's no doubt that the atmosphere of LBA1&2 can be very well recreated in a great, new 3D world with fantastic effect such as sunrise/set, weather effects and.. well basically all "new" effects out there.

As for interacting with other characters I think a good idea would be to look back at gaming history. Take a look at Monkey Island, Simon the Sorcerer and Day of the Tentacle. Usually it's just information gathering, now it's actual conversations!

World and characters. Take a look at Shenmue and Oblivion where people "live their own lives". In the morning the character go to work. In the afternoon he goes to the tavern for lunch, back to work again and in the evening he goes fishing. Another day he might head to the pub in the evening instead.

Depending on which direction the game takes these things are more or less important. If they would make the action part a very big part of the game, excellent controls and great AI for enemies and allies are required, but you might want to cut back a little on the character interaction as the story may be more driven by actual "questing". If they go the other way and make puzzles and interaction more important to advance in the game the action controls and AI may not need to be perfect, but then we would probably want top notch interaction.

Personally I think the best thing would be to go the same direction as previous LBA-games, about 50/50 interaction,puzzle/action. Well balanced. But in that case I want everything I meantioned. Else the game would probably end up being mediocre at best.

[Lewi-G]

Nooo! You cant get rid of the magic ball! Thats one of the most memorable parts of the LBA games. I cant think of any other game with such a simple yet difficult fighting method as the ball.

I also liked it when you went to discrete mode you lobbed the ball higher

[Caleb]

I'm sorry but the ball got to go!

The thing is that the ball was a good solution for LBA1&2 because of the technology back then. He used magic but how would they implement spells and such? Solution: Magic ball! It was unique and kind of made sense.

With todays technology it doesn't make sense to throw a ball at enemies. Today it's easy to create various kinds of nasty spells with great effects to use on your foes. Of course a magic ball could be used also, but I kind of don't see a place for it.

[ChaosFish]

Originally Posted by Caleb

With todays technology it doesn't make sense to throw a ball at enemies. Today it's easy to create various kinds of nasty spells with great effects to use on your foes.

I think you forgot LBA is timeless.

[elmuerte]

LBA is not an action game and it should not become one.
LBA is not an RPG and it should not become one.
Twinsen should not become more of a wizard, current state of wizard-ness is more than enough. Twinsen was a normal guy with a couple of artifacts to help him (tunic+magicball).

[Quetch]

1.no
2.no
3.no
4.yes
5.yes
6.yes , but logical ones , not absurde or idiotic ones which gives you no clue what so ever on how to solve them ...

[Caleb]

LBA is not an action game, but the action is still there. And pretty much action as well, fighting guards and such. Might as well make that part of the game great as well, with todays standards. Also LBA is "timeless" in the sense that I a few days ago started to play them both again for the first time in 5-6 years – and enjoy it!

But I don't believe LBA is timeless in a way that makes the concept work today in a new game. Of course many parts of the game would work just fine, but not 100% of the game. The only ones that would enjoy such a game would perhaps be you, the hardcore fans. But what about the rest of the gamers?

I know I am at a fanpage of the game. On most game fansites it's not the easiest thing to give some negative feedback on the game. I really do like the games, otherwise I would not have registered here in the first place.

But since it was quite a few years since LBA2 was released, and it might take quite a few years more before LBA3 arrives, we have to assume alot of changes will be made. Fred said in that "chat" that LBA3 would be more realistic but not lose the "style" of previous LBA games. What that means only time can tell.

[elmuerte]

there are not "current standards" in game design.
unless you mean being bothered with the same kind of games over and over again.

If you take a look at the GTA3 like games, they have a lot common with how the LBA games were created. They just have a larger focus on action. I don't think the percentage of action should (read: fighting) be increased in LBA. There are other ways for interaction besides fighting. In the LBA games you are usually better to avoid fighting. It would be nice if LBA3 had more ability to influence the game world through certain actions, so that some actions solved in a certain way would require you to fight more and other ways of solving the same problem would allow you to avoid those fights.

[Quetch]

and thus we conclude that LBA3 should be more of a quest type rather than an fighting one ..... anyway , it urges me to think that we will have a LBA3 where you have to fight hoardes of enemyes .... I'd rather solve a brain smashing puzzle than fight 50 guys and say I'm the best ... you don't have the same satisfaction ... I trully hope Fred will take notes of our expectations and will make the best LBA ever , one which combines atmosphere and gameplay , thus resulting in a perfect view over the LBAish world ...

[insane_cobra]

I hope there won't be any Myst-like braincrackers, they just artifiacially block your progress through the game and break the flow. Also, more often than not, they're not really well incorporated into the story, they jump out as self-sufficient puzzle devices awkwardly grafted onto the story. I don't think they fit well into the LBA universe. And besides, if the game is to appeal to broader masses, really hard brainteasers should definitely be avoided. So light inventory puzzles - sure. Enviromental puzzles - definitely. Myst-like logic puzzles - absolutely not.

[Caleb]

I totally agree with you. Less fighting, more puzzles and character interaction.

But on the occations where you actually have to fight I rather have a system more like the ones in todays games. Not saying the game should depend totally on it and be one enourmous massacre.

[Streg]

Originally Posted by Caleb

Remove the magic ball. He is a wizard, right? Give him spells! He can keep the sword for melee combat.

But the magic ball is the most important thing of both LBA1 and LBA2. It can't be removed!

[QUOTE=Caleb]
The AI in LBA1 and LBA2 is pretty bad. It kind of has to be because of the poor controls. Imagine supersmart enemies who flank you, take alternative routes, find you if you hide and don't stop chasing you until you or they are dead. That would pretty much ruin LBA1&2, but should be a "given" for LBA3. But it requires good controls.[quote]

I got a vision of some kind of LBA2 with better graphics, with Twinsen running in a smashed house to escape from two francos, and one of the francos running on the other side of the house. LBA with better AI, that makes me dream.

[Lightwing]

Originally Posted by Caleb

I totally agree with you. Less fighting, more puzzles and character interaction.

But on the occations where you actually have to fight I rather have a system more like the ones in todays games. Not saying the game should depend totally on it and be one enourmous massacre.

I understand what you're trying to say, but what I think would be better is if throwing the magic ball was improved. Remove the magic ball, and you have no LBA.

Originally Posted by Caleb

The AI in LBA1 and LBA2 is pretty bad. It kind of has to be because of the poor controls. Imagine supersmart enemies who flank you, take alternative routes, find you if you hide and don't stop chasing you until you or they are dead. That would pretty much ruin LBA1&2, but should be a "given" for LBA3. But it requires good controls.

Actually, for its time, the AI in the games was really advanced. Tell me a game made in 1997 whose AI could climb ladders? Even today most AI characters can't do that. Of course, if you compare the AI in a 1994 game with that of 2006's then it's outdates (although, I still think it's pretty satisfying).

Originally Posted by Caleb

World and characters. Take a look at Shenmue and Oblivion where people "live their own lives". In the morning the character go to work. In the afternoon he goes to the tavern for lunch, back to work again and in the evening he goes fishing. Another day he might head to the pub in the evening instead.

I really really agree on this one. However, please, no Oblivion AI. I'd rather have the characters in LBA3 do a few scripted events, then a ton of proceduraly generated ones that make the game world feel fake.

[Purple Sheep]

But the suns never set...

[Kitarii]

Originally Posted by Purple Sheep

But the suns never set...

I always thought the twin suns were a good excuse for night never coming.

However, I don't think the fact that it's always light means there should be time. People can't really work non-stop, they need sleep!! So yes, something like FB2K said would be very cool, though I don't think they should introduce a night, unless it is integral to the story, i.e. one sun is destroy so the other starts an orbit. Hmm. Hmm!

[Echomote]

Originally Posted by Exie

What is this??..

Playstation

[Kitarii]

"It's rotational planes have stabilised between two suns."

Maybe not those exact words, but I gathered from this that neither the planet or the suns move at all? So if there was any "evening" light, it would be constant, and always in one place.

[Echomote]

its quite obvious that the planet doesnt move, it just sits between the suns - otherwise the hamalayi wouldnt be all the way round, if there at all