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  #26  
Old 2008-05-26, 14:55
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Darkflame Darkflame is offline
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But that dosnt explain why, historicaly, there has been just as many rebelion storys outside &or before america, or not aimed at american markets at all.

For instance; Robin Hood.
Absolutely shitloads of storys done in all sorts of media.

Its just a human phycological trait, not an american specific one.
It might be todo with the fact we find it positive and reassuring that an individual or small groups actions can have a big effect. Thus reaffirming the state of our free-will.
Thats just a thoery of the top of my head though.

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and is considered to be one of the main reasons why Star Wars was so succesful (Along with it's optimistic tone in the political and movie climate of that time).
No, it was because it did a fantasy space adventure with woshy shiny effects *really well*
If this was a scientific study, where was the controll?
How many non-rebelieon movies did they look at which had simerla budgets?

Its very easy too look at positive examples that did well, but the most interesting question is harder to answer, imo;
Do "rebel" based movies do preportionaly better in America then other areas?

Of course, youd have to factor out other factors as best you could. (movies doing better in the region they were created, for instance)
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  #27  
Old 2008-05-26, 16:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
But that dosnt explain why, historicaly, there has been just as many rebelion storys outside &or before america, or not aimed at american markets at all.

For instance; Robin Hood.
Absolutely shitloads of storys done in all sorts of media.

Its just a human phycological trait, not an american specific one.
It might be todo with the fact we find it positive and reassuring that an individual or small groups actions can have a big effect. Thus reaffirming the state of our free-will.
Thats just a thoery of the top of my head though.



No, it was because it did a fantasy space adventure with woshy shiny effects *really well*
If this was a scientific study, where was the controll?
How many non-rebelieon movies did they look at which had simerla budgets?

Its very easy too look at positive examples that did well, but the most interesting question is harder to answer, imo;
Do "rebel" based movies do preportionaly better in America then other areas?

Of course, youd have to factor out other factors as best you could. (movies doing better in the region they were created, for instance)
Robin Hood isn't a rebellion story. It is a story about a benevolent criminal, not about rebelling against the government. In terms of plot archetypes it's a Nemesis, not a Rebellion.

Yes, there have been many non-American rebellion stories. Most either weren't succesful, or had enough in them for an American audience to believe it was about them, albeit subconciously.

I think you're missing what I'm actually saying. Yes, in general, stories about heroes changing the world for the better are liked everywhere. But it has been found in many cases that (especially with movies) if you can make your rebellion story subconcioulsy be a retelling of America fighting for it's independance against the British Empire (Which Star Wars did really well and really quite subtly) youll have a monster hit on your hands. Star Wars didn't do well simply because it had wooshy special effects (If that was it, then the prequel trilogy would have been just as well liked, for having much better special effects, and the remastered versions of the original trilogy would be seen as improvements), it did well because it had a good story base that appealed to it's audience. I've explained why previously.

Looking at the socio-economic climate at that time, and what other movies were like, tells us why Star Wars did well and other movies didn't quite manage that. Firstly, by subtly reffering to the American War of Independance (Notice the Rebels all sound American, the Empire officers all sound British- except for the ultimatly redeemable Darth Vader) it makes the American audience find it easier to relate to the main characters. Secondly, after Vietnam, Watergate, etc, most movies at this time were really pessimistic- Star Wars wasn't (It's optimism was further reinforced by the above) hence it was different to every other moive being released at the time, and was the kind of movie people (Especially Americans) wanted and needed to see at that time. Something that reinforced the idea that America was the centre of the free world, and not as corrupt as the Watergate Scandal would suggest. This, incidentally, is the main reason for Star Wars success incording to Lucasfilm (Look at the documentary about the series on one of the DVD editions of the original trilogy).

It wasn't a scientific story- take it from me as a statitician, this sort of thing is really not good for scientific study- it's more like studying History than a science. You look at what people have said then and now, and see which cause seems most likely with the evidence you have. The fact that more or less all well told rebellion stories resonate particularly well with the American psyche (Especially if the rebels are the goodies, and the empire the baddies) is a phenomen that many movie producers consider when green lighting projects.

Do rebel based movies do better in America? Yes. Not hard at all.
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  #28  
Old 2008-05-27, 18:29
FDARI FDARI is offline
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Somehow it seems plausible that the rebels are good, because they are few and have less resources than the establishment. The establishment has more power to be cruel to them than they have to be cruel to it, and for them to battle it usually seems a desperate effort. Something they only do because they absolutely have to.

Of course, you could well tell the tale of a benevolent patriarch and the selfish group of rebels trying to seize power and suppress the people, if you really wanted to. Or do something closer to the reality of today. (Various struggles for independence)

Possible motivations for the smaller group that would make the story more ambigous:
Not wanting to share their wealth as the current government would distribute it. (Esp. natural resources)
Culture / identity. (Everything from patriotism to racism and elitism)

So - what did I say? Apparently that the formula for making the small group look good is well known, but could be balanced if we wanted to. So... It seems i agree with CiB, though I tried a different approach.

However, in terms of game management, you easily end up with Red Alert, Sim City, Heroes or some other strategy game if you play the big team. The tale of one hero among the imperial forces is not so popular, perhaps because the empire wouldn't need a hero to win. The rebels would. Of course, the empire could need one to defeat the archvillain (rebel hero). Or someone to perform the more difficult tasks. (I think of gameplay as in "Thief"-games)
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