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General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

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  #26  
Old 2008-12-05, 23:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino-Fly View Post
The original C&C Red Alert(I think it's this title) had all the soldiers made into robots in Germany, because the original game the people dying was seen as too much violence.

I always found that funny, beats me why.
They did the same to Contra III, renamed it "Super Probotector".

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
Kobold: on Double-J's picture we see Niko with a prostitute. I played GTA 1 as a child and the violence is not the point here. Don't you think handjob/blowjob in a car or inviting prostitutes to your house to have sex with is a step a little further in comparison with shooting? I played Wolfenstein 3D as a 7-y-o and it had a minimal impact on my psyche... how about getting to know that a handjob in a car goes for 30$?

In addition, Kobold, GTA IV has nothing to do with GTA II... Why? Well, the foremost reason is the living, breathing city that you can freely explore. The way they show the American Dream or the Statue Of Liberty... er... Happiness. Or that what really is 'Liberty' in the game's world (look at the map)... is the ocean - everything BUT that city.
I don't have an American Dream, and if it envolves stealing cars and killing people than I don't want to have it either.
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  #27  
Old 2008-12-06, 00:13
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Originally Posted by Kobold
I wasn't talking about Mature, I was talking about 18+. Like this:
I don't like that rating system, I prefer ESRB.
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  #28  
Old 2008-12-06, 00:16
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I'm not talking about what I prefer, but what legally applies in my country.
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  #29  
Old 2008-12-06, 04:07
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i think Lba is better (Especially because it was my childhood game) and people say LBA1 was the game that started 3d gameplay. (well i dont know about that, but i hope its true )
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  #30  
Old 2008-12-06, 13:10
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I think Alone in the Dark did that more.
(first game with 3d polygons and a perspective view, anyway...even if the perspective was fixed).
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  #31  
Old 2008-12-06, 15:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
Kobold: on Double-J's picture we see Niko with a prostitute. I played GTA 1 as a child and the violence is not the point here. Don't you think handjob/blowjob in a car or inviting prostitutes to your house to have sex with is a step a little further in comparison with shooting? I played Wolfenstein 3D as a 7-y-o and it had a minimal impact on my psyche... how about getting to know that a handjob in a car goes for 30$? .
Thats... utterly bizarre. You really think a sexual act for money is worse than an act of murder or severe violence?

I'm of the mind that implied sex scenes (which is what we get in GTA 3 to 4) are somewhat worse in terms of suitability for young'uns than killing unarmed civilians with a gun, or murdering policemen.


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Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
In addition, Kobold, GTA IV has nothing to do with GTA II... Why? Well, the foremost reason is the living, breathing city that you can freely explore. The way they show the American Dream or the Statue Of Liberty... er... Happiness. Or that what really is 'Liberty' in the game's world (look at the map)... is the ocean - everything BUT that city.
Same series. GTA4 is a sequel to GTA2. GTA2 has the nearest thing to a living breathing city that was possible with thet technology availible then, as does GTA4. They are both sandbox-crime simulators with an emphasis on stealing cars (Or commiting Grand Theft Auto). Both game shave moments of biting satire about society and the nature of it (like "No donation! No salvation!" and the Statue of Happiness being modelled on Hilary Clinton).

They really are quite close together. The American Dream point isn't valid, thats simply the theme of GTA4's story. It likely won't be present in the next one, as that was Niko's story.
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  #32  
Old 2008-12-06, 15:33
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Thats... utterly bizarre. You really think a sexual act for money is worse than an act of murder or severe violence?
Depends. How drunk were we when it happened? :P
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  #33  
Old 2008-12-06, 15:43
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Its pretty standard in the US for Sex/Nudity to give films a higher rating then violence.
Ditto for games. A single nipple in a game will cause the press to flame it like mad, but blowing peoples heads of is just fine.
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  #34  
Old 2008-12-06, 17:19
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Well excuuuuuse me,
But prostitutes and hand jobs for money is A. not just "sexual content", and B. yes a lot worse for kids than playing games where you kill people.
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  #35  
Old 2008-12-06, 17:36
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Neither should be in the hands of children.
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  #36  
Old 2008-12-06, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
I played Wolfenstein 3D as a 7-y-o and it had a minimal impact on my psyche...
really?you started watching nazis everywhere and shooting them with a revolver?
c'mon
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Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
how about getting to know that a handjob in a car goes for 30$?
it costs much less
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  #37  
Old 2008-12-06, 18:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Well excuuuuuse me,
But prostitutes and hand jobs for money is A. not just "sexual content", and B. yes a lot worse for kids than playing games where you kill people.
why?
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  #38  
Old 2008-12-06, 18:43
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Well excuuuuuse me,
But prostitutes and hand jobs for money is A. not just "sexual content", and B. yes a lot worse for kids than playing games where you kill people.
Actually, yeah, by definition prostitutes and 'hand jobs' are sexual content- it's content that is sexual in nature.

The games where you can kill people thing is more complex than that. Mario jumping on a goomba's head, or Twinsen throwing his magic ball at a clone is one thing. Niko Bellic butchering innocent people in the street with a machine gun is entirely different.

However, I agree with Dino-Fly. But I'd say that the sexual content isn't as bad as realistic bloody violence. But if I had a kid they'd be getting nowehere near either one.

Double-J- the more drunk we were the less graphic the sexual content or violence and thus the more child friendly it is due to alcohol making it hazy. Alcohol always makes it better.
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  #39  
Old 2008-12-06, 18:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
why?
Good question, the answer is maybe a little abstract but it's obvious to me.

Let me try...
For starts, there is something innocent about killing people. Maybe sounds stupid but it's true. Killing is a simple basic concept. Paying a woman for sex however, is a lot more harmful to innocence...
Or maybe it just disgusts me and just my hunch. I don't know, you decide.
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  #40  
Old 2008-12-06, 20:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Good question, the answer is maybe a little abstract but it's obvious to me.

Let me try...
For starts, there is something innocent about killing people. Maybe sounds stupid but it's true. Killing is a simple basic concept. Paying a woman for sex however, is a lot more harmful to innocence...
Or maybe it just disgusts me and just my hunch. I don't know, you decide.
I totally disagree with you. Yes I find prostitution to be immoral, but not as much as murder. I can sort of see it for killing though, as much as I disagree.

Killing and murder however are two different things. Killing a deer so you can eat is one thing, killing a human being so you can steal their car, or because your driving on the pavement for the hell of it, or because you have a gun and want to try it out or simply because they're there- (the main reasons for killing in GTA) is totally different.

Do you think it's less wrong (morally) to kill someone for money, or to provide sexual services to another for money?

As far as I can tell, what you're saying is that it's the idea of being paid that makes prostitution so wrong. Does being paid for it make killing as wrong, less so or more so? After all, a lot of the killing in GTA is for money (and some of that is killing innocents.)
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  #41  
Old 2008-12-06, 20:26
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I don't know and I don't feel like arguing about that... anyway, whatever.
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  #42  
Old 2008-12-06, 20:48
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You ppl misunderstood me a little I think. Of course it's worse, and I'm the first person who'll get creeped out when the media treats sexual felonies worse than murder. It's just, what I had in mind is young children playing games, and I dunno, 'handjobs' just seem more inappropriate than killing.
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  #43  
Old 2008-12-06, 20:55
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Prostitution is, on average, much more likely to be agreed by both sides then murder is

Thats how it fits into my universal morality really. If someone wants to get paid for someone to use their body, as disgusting as we find it, thats still just two people agreeing to do something. The prostitute has decided that, for them, this is the cause of action they have to do.
If anything is morally wrong from the situation, its not the action itself, but rather the events that pushed the prostitute towards this lifestyle.

A person being murdered, on the other hand, isn't nearly so likely to be seeking it out, or be willing to let it happen. That are an unwilling participant.

As far as video games go, obviously both the context and the level of abstraction involved alter how "bad" or "unsuitable" the sequence is for minors.
For equal levels of realism though, I do think murder is worse for the reasons stated above. Obviously though, an explicate handjob is worse then "killing" a Gomba by jumping on it.

To be honest, I find it quite disturbing that, as a society, we seem to think it the other way around.
Maybe its because dead people tend not to complain about their life?
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  #44  
Old 2008-12-06, 21:03
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Yeah yeah, that's true and all. I don't know. If you had a 6 year old kid and you had to censor one game from them, either Half-Life or Face Fuck Adventures, what would you choose?
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  #45  
Old 2008-12-06, 21:21
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Depends how abstract Face Fuck Adventures was.
(there is no way I'm googleing that!)
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  #46  
Old 2008-12-06, 21:43
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It's not released to the mass yet so you probably won't find anything. (I've still got some bugs to fix.)

Face Fuck Adventures is about as abstract as Half-Life, actually.
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  #47  
Old 2008-12-06, 22:21
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Then it comes down to context.

Does Face Fuck Adventures give a well motivated characters realistic reasons to do what they do? Is what they are doing for the good of mankind? A nessceity?
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  #48  
Old 2008-12-06, 23:14
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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
To be honest, I find it quite disturbing that, as a society, we seem to think it the other way around.
Maybe its because dead people tend not to complain about their life?
As I tried to point out, this is mainly the American way of thinking. Here in Germany he had lots and lots of dicussions on how harmful first-person-shooter games are and whether they should all be banned(!). Games with sex in them might get a 16+ rating, 18+, blacklisting and banning are reserved for violence.
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  #49  
Old 2008-12-06, 23:47
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Then it comes down to context.

Does Face Fuck Adventures give a well motivated characters realistic reasons to do what they do? Is what they are doing for the good of mankind? A nessceity?
Actually since you ask, in the Face Fuck Adventures universe, they have to do it in order for mankind to survive. (don't want to be posting spoilers, but it actually makes a lot of sense once you play the game)

So, what would you take off your children's shelf? That, or Half-Life? Be honest!
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  #50  
Old 2008-12-07, 01:22
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Face Fuck Adventures is probably much better then Halo, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Actually since you ask, in the Face Fuck Adventures universe, they have to do it in order for mankind to survive. (don't want to be posting spoilers, but it actually makes a lot of sense once you play the game)

So, what would you take off your children's shelf? That, or Half-Life? Be honest!
honestly, if there was a game as you described, I would campaign strongly to keep it on the shelf's

Seriously, I think if it was possible for a game to "need" such a sexual act in the same way games "need" violence, I wouldnt rate it higher then half life. Half life's violence isnt gratuitous, and is somewhat of necessity for the story/gameplay. If a sexual act was simela not gratuitous, then it should be treated the same, if not more liberally.
Of course though, most sex scenes are gratuitous.
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