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General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

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  #1  
Old 2008-12-05, 05:24
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Twinsun LBA vs GTA IV

I wanna ask everybody to participate in a discussion about LBA and GTA IV! Both games have a number of similarities so I'm really intertested what you people have to say.

I believe LBA was one of the first free-roaming, open-world games ever. In case of LBA1 I would even insist on calling it a sandbox as the very final moment (just before you enter FunFrock's Tower at the end of the game) actually lets you go back to any point on the map.

That's what I love about LBA the most and apart from the story/characters, it's the very thing that made the game influence me so much as a child.

I sometimes ask myself if it wasn't better to be born in the late '90, so one would play more advanced games like GTA IV during their childhood but... no...

LBA (LBA1 at that) has its immersive fantasy world, rich with imagination and pulling you inside with every second you continue to play the game. There's also the well known Nazi-like survival-horror atmosphere present - something that made me shiver when I was an 8-y-o.

At the wake of the PC version of GTA IV, I hope many people will be interested in replying to my post...

My once-awesome and now-a-little-old computer (GeForce 8500 and Core 2 Duo) is totally incapable of playing the PC version smoothly - the graphics is much worse than on a PS3, so I think I'll have to wait a few years. But hey! I still like LBA more, so I think I'll get through it...

What are YOUR thoughts on LBA vs GTA IV, guys?

Last edited by OutOfTimer; 2008-12-05 at 12:51.
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  #2  
Old 2008-12-05, 11:17
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Are you insane? GTA IV is no match for LBA.
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  #3  
Old 2008-12-05, 14:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
I wanna ask everybody to participate in a discussion about LBA and GTA IV! Both games have a number of similarities so I'm really intertested what you people have to say.
Clearly! Let's take a look:




Similarities abound. Magic ball, or P90? I can't even tell the difference.

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  #4  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTimer View Post
I sometimes ask myself if it wasn't better to be born in the late '90, so one would play more advanced games like GTA IV during their childhood but... no...
Playing 18+ games in your childhood?
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  #5  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
Playing 18+ games in your childhood?
That struck me as well.

Anyways, I think there was a thread about this already, and I think we agreed there as well that it's equivalent to trying to trying to plus x+y, it just can't be done.
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  #6  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:25
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I see his point that there is large open areas to explore, but honestly, GTA IV is overrated. Most of the areas aren't accessible, so you get a large city with not a whole lot to do. Whereas in LBA, you could enter just about every building. Of course, the scale is important to consider, but still.

Otherwise, I really don't see many parallel's between the two.
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  #7  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:54
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For me the question isn't "Is LBA or GTAIV the better game?". Rather, it should be a debate of whether nostalgia can ever be overcome? In this case, is a, for the moment, relative perfection of the generic (GTAIV) good enough to make us place this game in the pantheon of games, on a pedestal higher than that of LBA?

To me, no. It would take more than a perfection of the standards.

I'm not demanding a re-thinking in the same vain as Soul Bubbles. To me, Super Mario Galaxy was enough. It rethought the basics enough, perfected the core and didn't need to add anything excessive, such as obligatory storyline. Sure it was there, but no more than necessary. The finer points were only there if you wanted it.

So yes, I do believe something nostalgia can be overcome. But not by GTAIV.

Of course the debate is largely redundant. OutofTimer, LBA is not an open-world game. Sure you can back-track all you like in the end, but the game was not meant to be freely explored in any order you would like.

I can of course state which game I like more, across categories, but LBA should mainly be compared to linear or semi-linear story-driven action/adventure games such as The Legend of Zelda and Fable.
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  #8  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
Playing 18+ games in your childhood?
who looks at that damn "18+"anyway
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  #9  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:57
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I don't really care about the 18+. I care about the violence.
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  #10  
Old 2008-12-05, 16:59
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Do you feel sorry for killing virtual men? or do you fear that a 6 years old playing GTA will start acting like a bully cos that's what he's seen in the game?
I've been watching 18+ movies and playing violent games since i was a child and i haven't killed anyone so far.
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  #11  
Old 2008-12-05, 17:02
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Quote:
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Do you feel sorry for killing virtual men?
Having 5-year-olds killing people with baseball bats, swearing like troopers and already trying to have sex(though impossible) would be the problem here.
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  #12  
Old 2008-12-05, 17:06
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I started editing my previous post a second after i posted it.
if parents tell the kid that they shouldn't kill, steal, swear... (let's make a high jump above the sex part) there is no problem.
You don't become a criminal becouse you used to be a virtual gangsta in your childhood, it's becouse of the kind of life you're surrounded by.
How many children jump outside the window trying to fly after watching peter pan ? Peter Pan should be considere 18+ too then? Or the children's mothers should have told them that what they see in films and cartoons isn't true?
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  #13  
Old 2008-12-05, 17:06
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Feel sorry for killing virtual men? Why would I even bother to play a game where the entire goal is to slaughter people!* It's a disgusting idea and has nothing to do with fun.

*(not related to GTA4 here)
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  #14  
Old 2008-12-05, 17:36
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GOURANGA!
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  #15  
Old 2008-12-05, 17:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold View Post
Feel sorry for killing virtual men? Why would I even bother to play a game where the entire goal is to slaughter people!* It's a disgusting idea and has nothing to do with fun.

*(not related to GTA4 here)
I disagree, slaughtering virtual people can be fun, if done right.

Also, let kids play whatever they want. If they want to play "slaughter people", then that's what they should play. That's the whole point of GAMES, experiencing in whatever you want without repressing the urge to do it and also without actually doing it.
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  #16  
Old 2008-12-05, 18:24
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The games rated M for Mature don't mean +18, NO it means people with a mature mind. I play Diablo 2 since 10 years, I'm a violent dude? No. Did I kill someone? NO. And GTA is a great city exploring adventure . LBA should be Mature cause it has extreme violence! (talking about the moodded version )
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  #17  
Old 2008-12-05, 18:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
Clearly! Let's take a look:
Thanks. I nearly died of laughter.

On the other hand, this thread reminds me of an article I read where a guy compared Zork I (text adventure) to Halo 2 and stated that Halo was better because it has better graphics.
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  #18  
Old 2008-12-05, 18:41
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Quote:
I believe LBA was one of the first free-roaming, open-world games ever.
Not by a long shot, actualy.

LBA is partly inspired by the Zelda series, which has basicaly the same freedom as LBA.

Going back further though, there are games that are even more free, and older.

Mercenary, for instance, and its sequal Damoclas (Comadore/Amiga).

These games are more comparable to GTA.
The first one gave you a wireframe city to explore (both underground and over).
The second gave you a whole solar system (with many, many cities, multi-level buildings, inside and out....in terms of area, its actualy vastely bigger then GTA).


Of course though, in these games there was far less you could do.
Enviromental interaction is mostly just doing stuff to individual items, tradeing stuff, and occasionaly destroying stuff.
Like GTA, however, theres all sorts of vehicles for you too "borrow".


Id recomend people try out the games;
http://mercenarysite.free.fr/mercframes.htm

(good dedicated emulator that plays just the series of games. Its worth trying just to see what was possible on very low-end hardware. )

---

There is a sort-of connection between GTA and LBA though, but its more that of cousins.

The creators of GTA said at one point that Zelda:Ocarina Of Time was the game that proved what they wanted to do was possible. OoT lead the way in terms of "landscape streaming" that was nesscerly for GTA 3 and above.

So in some ways, Zelda both inspired LBA and GTA.
Despite the fact GTA is clearly quite a different game.
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  #19  
Old 2008-12-05, 18:53
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Double-J, your comparison is very amusing, I've got to give you credit for that... and just as a reminder:



By the way... doesn't it feel like we're childish? I mean honestly, I've got this weird feeling now thinking I'd rather be on Niko's place.

I only tried to compare the immersive worlds of both games. One of the strongest points of GTA IV is Liberty City itself. There's certainly not much left to compare beside that - e.g.: in LBA there's no blood, etc.

18+ didn't even occur to me. I don't remember being much interested in sex as a 8-y-o.

I play GTA IV mainly for its world and story not for the killing of innocents. Cyberg-Ares and Double-J understood my post very well (apart from not agreeing with it, though).
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Old 2008-12-05, 18:54
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the hell ??? how can u compare a life-like city adventure, full of guns, drugs, sluts and triads with the magic of LBA ??? me stumped now ... don't get me wrong, I'm a GTA maniac (almost as a LBA one) BUT they are DIFFERENT !!! .... all opposite, different, etc.
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  #21  
Old 2008-12-05, 21:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
I disagree, slaughtering virtual people can be fun, if done right.

Also, let kids play whatever they want. If they want to play "slaughter people", then that's what they should play. That's the whole point of GAMES, experiencing in whatever you want without repressing the urge to do it and also without actually doing it.
I'm speaking entirely for myself. I've seen GTA II being played. I don't want to play it. End of story.

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Originally Posted by Agustin View Post
The games rated M for Mature don't mean +18, NO it means people with a mature mind. I play Diablo 2 since 10 years, I'm a violent dude? No. Did I kill someone? NO. And GTA is a great city exploring adventure . LBA should be Mature cause it has extreme violence! (talking about the moodded version )
I wasn't talking about Mature, I was talking about 18+. Like this:
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  #22  
Old 2008-12-05, 21:49
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I'm speaking entirely for myself. I've seen GTA II being played. I don't want to play it. End of story.
If you're talking about GTA then I agree, I thought you were talking about slaughtering people in general The original GTA game ruled though.
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  #23  
Old 2008-12-05, 21:53
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I've also seen Wolfenstein 3D being played. I didn't like it either.
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18+ didn't even occur to me. I don't remember being much interested in sex as a 8-y-o.
Are you American? In Europe games get rated 18+ for violence only (in Germany sometimes blacklisted, sometimes banned, etc. ), rarely for sex.
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  #24  
Old 2008-12-05, 22:55
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The original C&C Red Alert(I think it's this title) had all the soldiers made into robots in Germany, because the original game the people dying was seen as too much violence.

I always found that funny, beats me why.
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  #25  
Old 2008-12-05, 23:24
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Kobold: on Double-J's picture we see Niko with a prostitute. I played GTA 1 as a child and the violence is not the point here. Don't you think handjob/blowjob in a car or inviting prostitutes to your house to have sex with is a step a little further in comparison with shooting? I played Wolfenstein 3D as a 7-y-o and it had a minimal impact on my psyche... how about getting to know that a handjob in a car goes for 30$?

In addition, Kobold, GTA IV has nothing to do with GTA II... Why? Well, the foremost reason is the living, breathing city that you can freely explore. The way they show the American Dream or the Statue Of Liberty... er... Happiness. Or that what really is 'Liberty' in the game's world (look at the map)... is the ocean - everything BUT that city.
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