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  #1  
Old 2005-09-21, 12:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarKid
No I didn't mean wars in general I meant this kind of war, in the way it was justified (with all those lies and all and just because of a potential threat, they didn't even admit it was for the lands), and the senseless cruelty, which ofcourse is within every war but shouldn't have anymore in our day and age considering how mankind have evolved in such terms.

Anyway my main point wans't towards a dark ages or not but cruelty within the punishment of rapers, which isn't too far from cruelty in wars, as seen by many all people who support such wars.
Ahhh.
Well people who support war, especially the iraq war, have serious problems. Also it doesn't have that much support outside of the USA.
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  #2  
Old 2005-09-21, 18:25
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Kin: Everyone who doesn't agree with you has serious problems? No cause, that's what I understood from what you've said. I don't have an opinion about the war in Iraq, just to be clear.

(carry on)

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2005-09-22 at 12:44. Reason: removed post title
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  #3  
Old 2005-09-21, 19:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Ahhh.
Well people who support war, especially the iraq war, have serious problems. Also it doesn't have that much support outside of the USA.
I supported the war. Just because someone doesn't share your viewpoint, doesn't mean they have issues. Thats a very arrogant thing to say.
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  #4  
Old 2005-09-21, 20:03
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Ok, I apologize then.
It's just that I find supporting the killing of people strange.
(talking only about the iraq war here)
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Last edited by Reek; 2005-09-21 at 20:10.
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  #5  
Old 2005-09-21, 21:48
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Why would killing people in this war be any different to any other?
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  #6  
Old 2005-09-21, 21:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Why would killing people in this war be any different to any other?
Because this wasn't an act of self-defense.
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  #7  
Old 2005-09-21, 22:01
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Ehm, yes it was. In the long run.
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  #8  
Old 2005-09-21, 22:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Because this wasn't an act of self-defense.
Pre-emptive strike.
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  #9  
Old 2005-09-21, 22:11
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So now days attacking someone who has never done anything to you counts as an act of self-defense "in the long run"?

Do me a favour.
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  #10  
Old 2005-09-21, 22:15
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Iraq was actually dangerous with Saddam as it's leader.
If he hadn't been stopped in time there'd be an actual chance he'll develop a nuke. War is horrible, and I don't know enough to say if this one was actually necessary, but I know enough to say that it was self defence in the long run.
It wasn't as Bush and his gang made seem to the world (revenge).
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  #11  
Old 2005-09-21, 23:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
So now days attacking someone who has never done anything to you counts as an act of self-defense "in the long run"?

Do me a favour.
Christ, are you really ignorant of recent history? Or are you just being arrogant and cynical on purpose?

Saddam was a tyrant who mistreated most of the people in his country, started wars with neighbours and was a threat to us, maybe not directly, but that is not the point.

I wouldn't say the chances of him egtting a nuke were big, but he could have done a lot of other stuff to threaten us, such as stopping our oil supplies.
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  #12  
Old 2005-09-21, 23:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Christ, are you really ignorant of recent history? Or are you just being arrogant and cynical on purpose?

Saddam was a tyrant who mistreated most of the people in his country, started wars with neighbours and was a threat to us, maybe not directly, but that is not the point.

I wouldn't say the chances of him egtting a nuke were big, but he could have done a lot of other stuff to threaten us, such as stopping our oil supplies.
Can you get it through your head that you can't start a war with every country that is potentially a threat?
You think Iraq is the only country which "may have" developed nukes?
Do you think Iraq's was the only undemocratic regime?
Is Iraq the only country that started wars with it's neighbours?

Do you know how many wars we'd have in this world, if everyone started a war with countries that are a threat to it?

And how was Iraq a threat?
Did they have a powerful army?
Did they have nukes, or chemical/biological weapons?
Did they ever in the history of their country attack the UK or th US?
What kind of a threat were they, if it took about 3 weeks to topple their regime?
Stop our oil supply? it's THEIR fucking oil.
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there's no room for subtleties, which are so important in personalities such as mine.

Last edited by Reek; 2005-09-22 at 00:17.
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  #13  
Old 2005-09-22, 00:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Can you get it through your head that you can't start a war with every country that is potentially a threat?
You think Iraq is the only country which "may have" developed nukes?
Do you think Iraq's was the only undemocratic regime?
Is Iraq the only country that started wars with it's neighbours?

Do you know how many wars we'd have in this world, if everyone started a war with countries that are a threat to it?

And how was Iraq a threat?
Did they have a powerful army?
Did they have nukes, or chemical/biological weapons?
Did they ever in the history of their country attack the UK or th US?
What kind of a threat were they, if it took about 3 weeks to topple their regime?
Stop our oil supply? it's THEIR fucking oil.
Firstly, I mentioned nothing about nukes. I don't think they had/have or will ever have access to them.

I guess the only reason we attacked them was because it was in our interests to get rid of the "unpopular" regime. No, they aren't the only offenders in the list you mentioned, but to take them out would suit us in the long run.

3 weeks to topple a regime? I'd say thats pretty impressive. THey had the British and American army against them; they were outnumbered and outgunned. Think, if Britain or America alone was to "invade" a little country like Israel or Switzerland, do you reckon you'd hold them off for 3 weeks? I doubt they'd even manage that (same with USA invading UK, imo.).

Their oil? I don't think so mate, its our oil, as a collective. The whole planet has a right to it, not only them. It's just so happened that a county called Iraq happens to be above one of the biggest deposits of it (well, Iraq/Kuwait.)
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  #14  
Old 2005-09-22, 00:58
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I think you are overestimating the strength of the American army. Last time I checked, there was a still a war going on in Iraq.

Didn't know either that we now own all natural resources as a collective.

Anakin: It is good if you accept that people have different opinions, instead of just dismissing other people as mentally disturbed.
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  #15  
Old 2005-09-22, 01:06
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Pandy:Well, we have different ways of looking at things. This has been argued too many times in the past anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav Sweden

Anakin: It is good if you accept that people have different opinions, instead of just dismissing other people as mentally disturbed.
I already apologized for that, you must have not noticed.
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there's no room for subtleties, which are so important in personalities such as mine.

Last edited by Reek; 2005-09-22 at 01:26.
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  #16  
Old 2005-09-22, 01:27
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Yeah, I'm very sorry, I missed that post for some reason.
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  #17  
Old 2005-09-22, 01:38
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Bah, that's ok, It can happen to anyone
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  #18  
Old 2005-09-22, 01:45
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Nice "edit" work Anakin
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  #19  
Old 2005-09-22, 05:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Their oil? I don't think so mate, its our oil, as a collective. The whole planet has a right to it, not only them. It's just so happened that a county called Iraq happens to be above one of the biggest deposits of it (well, Iraq/Kuwait.)
I disagree. There's territorial borders and if they are valid for something they are valid for everything. You can't make exceptions just for what interests you.

I mean, if you start this collective thing, why don't we spread superpopulated countries population such as India and China throughout the world, there's plenty space for everyone. Also, food, if we share as a collective all hunger problems would be solved in a blink!

Why don't we also get this collective excuse and apply them for, for example, gold, diamonds and other stuff? let's invade US and kill everyone to get the rest of the precious gems that lies beneath the mountains, afterall, US is so powerful ain't they? so they are a potential threat to the world! Let's make it collective and sack them all! Why not, It's just so happened that a county called USA happens to be blessed with gems!

Heck if you start thinking there's so much to turn "collective"!

Why don't we invade & dominate Africa to get their so famous giant diamonds? oh yeah I forgot, Uk did that already and now most of it's diamonds are now in the queen's stuff! Only cos africa is a less powerful country they feel like they can just go there and sack'em and we can even say that what we are doing is right, we are just making it collective!!!

Why don't we invade & dominate Iraq to get their fountains of oil? oh yeah Uk and US did that already and now most of it's oil will be "shared"! Only cos Iraq is a less powerful country they feel like they can just go there and sack'em and we can even say that what we are doing is right, we are just making it collective!!!

Why don't you invade & dominate Brazil to get our amazonian water? oh yeah I forgot, Uk and US are probably planning that by now and they are probably planning a whole lot of things like that and they can just tag it as "collective" and people will even think they are right!

..................
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Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2005-09-22 at 05:50.
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Old 2005-09-22, 15:35
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Yes, the US and UK is very imperialistic.
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  #21  
Old 2005-09-22, 15:56
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Quote:
You can't make exceptions just for what interests you.
Aaaah, finally someone else who gets it ^_^
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  #22  
Old 2005-09-22, 19:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarKid
I disagree. There's territorial borders and if they are valid for something they are valid for everything. You can't make exceptions just for what interests you.(

Why don't we invade & dominate Africa to get their so famous giant diamonds? oh yeah I forgot, Uk did that already and now most of it's diamonds are now in the queen's stuff! Only cos africa is a less powerful country they feel like they can just go there and sack'em and we can even say that what we are doing is right, we are just making it collective!!!

Why don't we invade & dominate Iraq to get their fountains of oil? oh yeah Uk and US did that already and now most of it's oil will be "shared"! Only cos Iraq is a less powerful country they feel like they can just go there and sack'em and we can even say that what we are doing is right, we are just making it collective!!!
Your argument is incredibly flawed and ignorant.

Yes, most of Africas jewels are in the queen's sceptres and crowns! Damn, we are so evil and imperialistic! Give me a break mate, those jewels are a part of history, and nothing to do with me or my generation. Besides, they make up a tiny proportion of jewels in the world. Also, you seem to think UK colonised Africa. Wrong mate, it was mainly France and Portugal that had colonies there and went around destroying the natives. Learn your history, boy.

Yeah, we might have gone in there for oil. That suits me fine, now everyone has a "stable" supply of oil. You seem to forget your country uses petrol too! where do you think you get it from? The magic oil fairy? Think about it before you comment. You have just as much to gain as we do.

I personally don't think oil was the main thing on the UK agenda. Aye, it was Americas war and we were drawn into it, but thats what happens in politics and aliances. I also think we should have gone in, toppled the government, hanged around for a bit and then left the coalition government to get on with things without the American influences, but hey, I'm not in charge.
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Old 2005-09-22, 20:57
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To be honest, this "collective" thing is just ridiculous. There's something called sovereignty and it has to be respected.

Iraq had every bloody right to stop our oil supply. The fact that we all have something to gain from invading them and stealing their oil is obvious, but doesn't mean we should do it, ffs. This is just insane.

Pandy, I'm sure if the UK happened to have oil resources your thoughts would be a bit different.
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Old 2005-09-22, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Yes, most of Africas jewels are in the queen's sceptres and crowns! Damn, we are so evil and imperialistic! Give me a break mate, those jewels are a part of history, and nothing to do with me or my generation.
To be honest, I don't think that SGK was aiming to criticise the people of Britain, but was instead comparing the actions of the British government during the age of the empire and those of the government today. In certain ways they can look somewhat similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandy
Also, you seem to think UK colonised Africa. Wrong mate, it was mainly France and Portugal that had colonies there and went around destroying the natives. Learn your history, boy.
Actually, Britain and France were the main players in Africa, as can be seen here. In comparison to Britain's holdings, Portugal is a long way behind, as are the rest of the countries who owned colonies on the continent (save France). Furthermore, Britain had the largest portion of the African population under its control, 30%, compared to the French only controlling 15% despite owning more land. And while the British government did usually favour gaining control over regions through economic means, it wasn't afraid to use its military might either. See the 1882 military occupation of Egypt, the conquest of Sudan in 1898 and to a lesser extent, the Boer Wars.

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Originally Posted by Pandy
Yeah, we might have gone in there for oil. That suits me fine, now everyone has a "stable" supply of oil. You seem to forget your country uses petrol too! where do you think you get it from? The magic oil fairy? Think about it before you comment. You have just as much to gain as we do.
I can't believe that this is being offered as an actual arguement. What, another country has something that we'd like to have, so it's ok to invade it? The fact that oil supplies are going down is a sign that we should seek to find alternative energy sources rather than increase our dependency upon them.

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Originally Posted by Pandy
I personally don't think oil was the main thing on the UK agenda. Aye, it was Americas war and we were drawn into it, but thats what happens in politics and aliances.
That's what happens when Britain has a prime minister who can't stand his own ground and listen to his own people. It's servitude, not an alliance.
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Old 2005-09-22, 22:02
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Norway has oil, maybe you should invade them!
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