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  #1  
Old 2002-12-11, 11:33
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Evil-Twinsen Evil-Twinsen is offline
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Jesse's Sig

Quote:
Hate and love are the oposite of eachother, none is good or bad, since that is a matter of taste.
Hate though, leads to fight,leads to more hate and is negative.
Love, and not in terms of sex, but love 'generally' leads to no fighting, and leads to more love, it's positive.
Jesse's sig (cute sig btw ) deals with something I've been thinking about a lot for the passed through years...

his sig states that love and hate are a matter of taste, only that love leads to "good stuff" and hate leads to "bad stuff".

Seems like a solution - only I wanted to take this further away - who decides what's good and what's bad?.

there's a conformity regarding to, say, pain being bad.
But who said that?
Perhaps this has been a conformity for so long, and our minds and bodies have THOUGHT this way for SO long, that our same minds and bodies have adjusted themselves to FEEL this way all this time.

Perhaps, if we changed the conformity, we'd suddenly realize that what we used to refer to as "bad", can actually be good?

Perhaps we were just born with the thought that, say, sticking a knife through our left eye, is a BAD thing. But perhaps it's a good thing. Perhaps we CAN enjoy it, or teach our body to ENJOY pain?
Just the same way as the conformity, perhaps, has taught it to enjoy sex, good food, or good music.

And speaking of music...
http://forum.magicball.net/showthrea...650#post106650

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  #2  
Old 2002-12-11, 12:15
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Well love and hate aren't a matter of taste, good and bad are, since THAT is an opinion.

Thanks for the comment btw
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  #3  
Old 2002-12-11, 12:42
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Evil-Twinsen Evil-Twinsen is offline
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If that's an option, why do everyone choose good?

Even criminals choose GOOD - they choose what's good for THEM.

And who said masochism is a BAD thing? Who said pain is bad?...

They're enjoying themselves, they fine PAIN to be good just as much as we find SEX, GOOD FOOD, ETC., to be good.

What's wrong with that then?
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  #4  
Old 2002-12-11, 14:50
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I meant good is an opinion, just like criminals do 'good' either.

I'll reply something later, kinda busy now.
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  #5  
Old 2002-12-11, 17:55
Atresica Atresica is offline
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Well... I think the opinion of pain has been caused because we are instinctmaticly afraid of pain (it's a warning), masochism is a strange thing... because I think it's more caused by 'liking' to be dominated than to experience the pain itself... but than again, I'm not a masochist.

Of course, seeing pain as bad is probably because you don't want to experience it yourself, even masochists don't like experiecing pain all the time, esspecially not when it's mental...

which brings me to another question, even though we have nerves to detect physical pain and such, and we can either learn to avoid it or to 'get used to it', wouldn't that make mental pain worse? Sure you can avoid the thing that gives you mental pain, but for some reason, it will always be able to find you... and I don't think mental pain is something you can enjoy... (not to mention the fact that it often lasts much longer)

Good is mostly what's pleasant, Bad what's unpleasant, what makes good or bad is when it's affecting you in a pleasant way or not...
So yes, there are criminals who considder themselves good because it's pleasant what they do. Than you have the opinion of the masses as well... you can do as much good as you want, but as soon as the masses are convinced that you're doing bad, you're doing bad stuff. Overall, that sounds logical and there should be nothing wrong with it. But what if you're doing something that totaly depends on the culture, like critisising or something, you become bad, while you are actually being good (in your opinion, but also in others), still you are bad...
Basicaly, it's pretty odd that 'bad' weights more than good, perhaps because we asume people should be good instead of bad, but again, that depends on the culture...

It's difficult to explain what I really mean, these are the moments I really can't express myself (even if I had to do it in dutch) so it can look confusing

I think my current signiture is actually pretty fitting for this type of discussion

Anyway, Grey rocks!
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  #6  
Old 2002-12-11, 19:41
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I think cozing someone mental pain is really disgusting. It's far worse than phisical pain.

ET>Pain isn't something you can enjoy (unless you are a Mistress in DungeonKeeper(2))If nature would have done that, there would only be a couple of bodies, which live but that's all, left. The only thing good about pain is that it warns you, the current situation has to change or else you will loose some limbs, die or get ill. I love the feeling of pain going away, but I don't hurt myself to feel that, I'm not crazy.
But what I would like to know is when people would grow up in a community in which they act differntly (like getting mad when someone helps you, getting happy if someone hurts you etc.)they also would act that way. In other words, are emotions something you have to learn or not?
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  #7  
Old 2002-12-12, 08:57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twinsal
are emotions something you have to learn or not?
Of course we learn that.

You know, there's one experiment that would find out the nature of man.
Take a 1-second old baby, put it in a small white room, and lock the doors, make sure it's sound proof and everything. Attach to him some sort of infusion transmmited nurture, in a way that will still acquire no need to actually let the boy SEE anything in the room (I'm not sure on the technicalities, but it has to be done so that the baby doesn't see any tubes sending food or ANYTHING), and let the baby grow into a, say, 30 years old man.
Then open the door and examine his response.

Of course this experiment is highly problematic, for 2 reasons -

1. It's cruel and unhuman. Which is rather ironic for an experiment trying to discover the nature of humanity.
2. Every baby has GOT to be born to a man and a woman. And the personallity of those certain man and woman would most probably also determine the baby's personallity and reaction.

To the 2nd problem there will probably be a solution one day, once we are able to take out all the genes and chromosomes from an infant before it is born, therefore leaving him "blank", with no personallities. The looks of that baby, btw, would most probably be and exact copy of the way the first human (aka Adam) looked like, since he was born with no physical characteristics as well.

For the 1st problem... Well, I leave it to you. I do't have an answer. Is it worth it? The consequences could be devestating. Not only when we found out how the baby comes out - but also when we found out how WE come out, and what WE have done.

I leave it to your debate.
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  #8  
Old 2002-12-12, 09:35
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I ain't no philospher, but:

If I felt only love and felt no hate,
If I knew only joy, and no sorrow,
There'd be nothing missing in my life.
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  #9  
Old 2002-12-12, 10:38
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Pain psyhically is a warning, mentally it's caused by abuse, and whenever you don't get what you want (which can be avoided, when you'll learn to accept your own shortcomings, and don't have expectations). The last form of pain is really terrible, and heals difficult. The most 'shortcomings' and 'abuse' that are almost EVERYWHERE among us, are caused by strict (or lack off)
Children should be taught certain things, but how often are parent really carefull?
'mom can I do this and that? ' 'No' 'but but...' 'no' without any argument, can already be hurting. Lack of attention as well, but what most parents forget: how to raise children
Around 14-16 giving more responsebilities, some people are just TOO protected and want to find out for themselves. Most of the times you'll just get 'No, Cuz I'm your father (blablabla)'
And whenever you plea to get more responsebility, they go to the other edge, and say you can find out EVERYTHING as long as they don't need to help you (which isn't so good either).

Many people underrate this, be warned when you're a parent

ET:
What good would it do if we would experience sticking out your left eye, would feel great? It would still cause damage, --> VERY HARD DRUG, Can cause Blindness, and Will certainly cause your friggin eyeballs to bleed.
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  #10  
Old 2002-12-12, 11:05
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
I ain't no philospher, but:

If I felt only love and felt no hate,
If I knew only joy, and no sorrow,
There'd be nothing missing in my life.
Of course there would be something missing. Bad things happen for a reason, and they teach us something. So if you knew only joy I'd think that would make the person thoughtless and pretty much dense. We grow on the experiences we have.
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  #11  
Old 2002-12-12, 12:39
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Good and Bad are very easily to define:

Bad ~ A enity which does wrong actions, or lets wrong actions happen on purpose (Evil is just an extream version of "bad")

Good ~ A enity which avoids wrong actions,and trys to take the path of least harm.

Wrong Action~ Anything that harms a sentient being.
---
Important things to note are:

a) You are only bad if you intend to do a wrong actions.
You can do something wrong accidently or unknowly, and that dosn't make you bad.

b) Love/Hate arn't good or bad, as they are emotions. Uncontrollable reactions to a sitution.
You cant ever blame someone for there feelings, only actions.
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  #12  
Old 2002-12-12, 21:16
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No, there are 2 things that control reaction: clear thinking and emotion. If the emotion is too strong, you can hardly blame someone.
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It kept me sane for a couple of years
As it drenched my fears
Of becoming like the others
Who become unhappy mothers
And fathers of unhappy kids
And why's that?
'Cause they've forgotten how to play
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  #13  
Old 2002-12-12, 23:33
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That's all the question of the moral law and the morall obligation, and also of the Good moral.

When you think for a long time to those questions, you finally realize that thay base themselves on metaphysic, religion, on really personnal and faith things. As soon as you take a human conception like "each humans is as important as yourself, must be as free and happy as yourself", you can deduce what's good or bad, recreate your moral law.

Making damage accidently isnt bad in itself, but you're bad for not having taken care enough of the effects your actions could have.
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  #14  
Old 2002-12-13, 12:27
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Unless you're full aware of your emotions, and can controll them. But that's hard.
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  #15  
Old 2002-12-13, 14:58
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Too many threads are discussibg good and evil these days.

---->Closed.






















Made you look, didn't I?
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