Microsoft Bans 1,000,000+ X-Box Live Users

[Double-J]

CNN: Microsoft Bans 1,000,000 X-Box Live Users

Interesting. As a Sony user, I can only see this as a positive, with the recent PS3 price drop, coupled with a bunch of pissed off 360 users, it can mean a bigger boost this holiday season.

I didn't realize the 360 had DRM, which puts what Jasiek was saying about it in the other thread into more perspective.

[ChaosFish]

Huh. I wonder if Microsoft shamelessly acting like the evil coldblooded corporation they are will one day be the end of them.

I don't think you (as a PlayStation user) should find this positive. PlayStation is already established and has many users. It's not like you're a Sony shareholder. The less competition Sony have, the worse service you're gonna get from them.

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by ChaosFish

Huh. I wonder if Microsoft shamelessly acting like the evil coldblooded corporation they are will one day be the end of them.

I don't think you (as a PlayStation user) should find this positive. PlayStation is already established and has many users. It's not like you're a Sony shareholder. The less competition Sony have, the worse service you're gonna get from them.

Um, I am... :P

No, not really. But I am in support of anything that gives my console an advantage.

[ChaosFish]

You own shares of Sony?!

[Double-J]

lol, I had to edit it because I figured that would be the reaction. :P

I should've put in the sarcasm tag instead, heh.

Incidentally, it's trading around $28 these days, not too great.

[ChaosFish]

I don't get people who support companies like it's their favorite soccer team or something.

The same people who would buy these:
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide..._revolutionary

[Axx]

Cocks. That is so gay, now i have to unmod my xbox I dont even play fake copies!! (i just dont want to spend a fortune unmodding it).

Im sure the gaming community will make them pay, this will not go down well!

[Double-J]

I support Sony, as console in this case, because I want to see more people buy it. Ergo, more people I can play with online, more people can come to my gaming community, etc.

I don't care if the X-Box succeeds or fails except in the context of what it means for my console. In fact, I'm glad that it does well, it should (theoretically) force Sony to work harder.

In fact, by that same notion, Sony's motion control and Project Natal should both push Nintendo and vice versa for the future of motion gaming.

[Jareth]

As an Xbox user, I personally prefer Sony and Nintendo to be strong, 'cause this gives Microsoft a kick to work harder (like you said, DJ). Also, the whole thing with banning accounts is just ridiculous. I can see people complaining about their acc's being banned for modding their consoles. Modding is allowed, you can mod your console, but XBL itself does not support modded consoles and everyone knows that.

So why people still mod their consoles? Are they stupid? I don't get it.. My X is not modded and I'm ok with it. I like having original games and music albums. It's funny and really cool for myself to have a good, shiny collection of green dvd boxes on my shelf, music albums as well.

[Jasiek]

Well it's because it belongs to you, and you can do whatever the hell you want with it. If a modded console disrupts in any way, the experience of using it online for other people - THEN they have a reason to ban people, if it does it for you - tough luck.

It's about a principle, that whatever you buy is yours. Be it a piece of software or a console. Soon they'll throw you in jail if you paint it purple and call it Dino.

EULA's that only "license" you to use the product are a farse and should be banned. Terms of service should only have one rule "You mess with it, you loose the warranty". The law should state clearly that a physical/digital product that is not a service should only be bought or rented (which makes then a case of modding a rented console pretty clear). And then licensing should be defined as being applicable only to services.

Copyright should state that you are free to copy a product that you bought (buying should automatically constitute that it is your property) and give it away to whoever you want. You should not however sell the copies or claim that you are the author. Case closed, piracy problem solved (or at least the problem of greedy companies solved).

[Jareth]

Originally Posted by Jasiek

Copyright should state that you are free to copy a product that you bought (buying should automatically constitute that it is your property) and give it away to whoever you want. You should not however sell the copies or claim that you are the author. Case closed, piracy problem solved (or at least the problem of greedy companies solved).

Afaik, in Poland you can have one copy of each of your cd's you bought (be it a game, music cd, software etc). This do not apply for copies of cd's, ofc. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jasiek]

Yeah, one copy of an orignal product that you also own - but that's it. However there is educational use - so in theory, you can download a movie if you're studying film in uni. Or games if you're a game creator. Or photoshop if you're using it to learn it and not make money from it etc.

Most of the time, you can also download music from rapidshare-like sites, because it is illegal to distribute copies, and not download them - but that's also "in theory". If the police raids someone it is usually because they have a cause to do so (he's identified as a major seeder, or he was cought selling copies).

The police can't raid your house if they do not have a warrant based on a probable cause. They can search you based on their badge alone, but they have to give you a warrant no later then 7 days from the searching. If they don't find anything during a search without a probable cause - they have a problem. If they do find something (anything - not really matters if it's pot or a major pirating operation), our law allows that as evidence in court - stupid system imho.

[LtDemolition]

Wow this is absolutely brilliant.
Thumbs up for Microsoft.

1,000,000 bans, must be a record.
"Xbox 360 consoles are equipped with digital rights management technologies designed to detect pirated software,"

This is one masterpiece, luckily that I ordered the legal version and I don't have Xbox live so

[Jasiek]

Well it's certainly a smart move. If someone is dumb enough to play online on the servers of the company, the product of which he has not bought it's their fault. However.... if they get banned for just modding the console... that's a whole other story.

I would mod the console just for the heck of it - so that they don't spy on me.

[Jareth]

Originally Posted by Jasiek

However there is educational use - so in theory, you can download a movie if you're studying film in uni. Or games if you're a game creator.

Oh, I didn't know about that

Originally Posted by Jasiek

Most of the time, you can also download music from rapidshare-like sites, because it is illegal to distribute copies, and not download them - but that's also "in theory". If the police raids someone it is usually because they have a cause to do so (he's identified as a major seeder, or he was cought selling copies).

But here goes the problem. If you're using software such as BitTorrent, Azareus etc. you have almost no option, you have to seed in some way and this makes you a "criminal". Also, if you use RapidShare, then there comes the orogin of the downloaded file. If it was stolen (let's say, it's an illegal copy bought somewhere deep underground in the city), then you have a big problem.

Originally Posted by Jasiek

The police can't raid your house if they do not have a warrant based on a probable cause. They can search you based on their badge alone, but they have to give you a warrant no later then 7 days from the searching. If they don't find anything during a search without a probable cause - they have a problem. If they do find something (anything - not really matters if it's pot or a major pirating operation), our law allows that as evidence in court - stupid system imho.

The 7-day period is bullshit. I myself had a search in my house and they just came at 6:30 in the morning to search my room. They found nothing, but hell, no 7-day shit happend... And of course, I lost the whole day, 'cause they had to ask me some random shit... Everthing ended like nothing happend, but hell, I almost shat my pants...

[LtDemolition]

Hey, I'm now drinking a nice cold beer 20 minutes before I go to sleep.
Am I cool now?

[Jasiek]

Originally Posted by Jareth

The 7-day period is bullshit. I myself had a search in my house and they just came at 6:30 in the morning to search my room. They found nothing, but hell, no 7-day shit happened... And of course, I lost the whole day, 'cause they had to ask me some random shit... Everything ended like nothing happened, but hell, I almost shat my pants...

Because they have to give you one within 7 days upon your request - I read the law a few weeks ago. Also... wth did they want?? It's a farce really, even if the court deems that they searched your house without a probable cause and they get some light disciplinary action, what they found is "theirs" and will be used in court. Meaning cops can technically go and rummage through your stuff, without much consequence. Now if they didn't find anything they where looking for AND you made a fuss about it wanting a warrant, something might come of it. You can also appeal to the European Tribunal .

Same thing with cars basically, if they ask you to pop the trunk, you just step out of the car, raise your hands and tell them to do it themselves - usually they will back up, because they can't search it without a viable cause (like blood on the bumpers... etc.) and the same rule applies as with any other search, upon your request they have seven days to bring you a warrant.

[Darkflame]

This is certainly a fucked-up move by microsoft here.
It wins them nothing and costs them lots.

I dont think, in principle, piracy protection is wrong on consoles. A lot of these firms have to sale X many games before they even start making a profit on the consoles sold.
Unlike a PC, DRM can also be implemented a lot less painfully. And, most importantly, if they fuck up your system, they have to deal with the problem. (If Sony's SecurROM fucks up my PC however, Id have bugger-all chance as a individual trying to sue them).

However. There's plenty of legitimate reasons to Mod. Important games, homebrew etc.
For this reason its bollocks to do this.
They are assuming guilt.
Its especially dumb to do this, seeing as the Xbox has regions (pointlessly). So theres more reason for mods to play imported games. (which are perfectly legal...if you paid for them, you paid for them. Dosnt mater if it was elsewhere).
PS3 technically has regions too, but basically no games use it.
(actualy, they often put both regions on the same disk to save cash :P)


===
Oddly, despite being hugely against Microsoft elsewhere, I actually think they have contributed a lot to the console marker.
Arguable more then Sony has in terms of features. They are certainly more innovative in the console market then they are in the OS market anyway.

Of course though, much of this also comes at the expense of reliability and lose-leaders at retail. (both much worse then Sony).

I think Microsoft does provide a good competition in the market. Mind you,Id rather have Sega still then Microsoft though.

So I think its a sad move they are hurting themselves in this way.

EULA's that only "license" you to use the product are a farse and should be banned.

Second.

I think, I dont even think EULAs have even been tested much in law. Its just assumed to be ok.
I think if a big case came to court, a lot of them much actually get dismissed out of hand.

[Double-J]

Originally Posted by Darkflame

Id rather have Sega still then Microsoft though.

Granted, I think the Dreamcast was ahead of (and behind, in some ways) its time, Sega hasn't shown me a whole lot as a developer that would make me say I wish they came back...

[Darkflame]

No, they pretty much fell apart.
I liked their Sonic Rush games on the DS, but their quality really has gone down in recent years.

In comparison, the Dreamcast was really inventive, well ahead of its time in internet features, and pretty powerfull too.
Sadly it was too late for them really.

[Lightwing]

Originally Posted by Darkflame

It wins them nothing and costs them lots.

That's a drop in the bucket for Microsoft. You'd have to multiply their losses tenfold before you can even approach the concept of "costs them lots."

[Darkflame]

True.
But still, 1,000,000 pissed of users over the course of the 360's remaining life might well equal to 3,000,000 lost game sales.
(assuming half would have never bought anything, and the remainder would have purchased 6 games or so in the next few years.)