Another one trying to make an LBA sequel...

[Firephoenix]

I've just released the textures of Bu's temple in the public section, and I've added some links toward awesome textures sites.

http://http://firephoenix.free.fr/?g...ction=Textures

They will suerely need to be edited to fit in a LBAish game, but they'll suerely be useful anyhow

[Tricky]

OMG I can't believe it's true!!
An LBA Fan Game with a playable demo?!
Me want it NOW!!!

I'll download it and come back with a review/bug report.

I also agree 100% with Xakep_INC, don't even think of calling it LBA3. That would without a doubt get a copyright law suit on your hands. Question is if you can get away with using any of the LBA universe names like Twinsen etc. Even for a non-profit game.

Anyway, Good Luck with the continued work on the game. And if there is a problem with disk space on DF's ftp account, I might have a solution. No promises right now, though. Can't help you any other way, don't suppose you've got any use for a skilled Perl programmer

[HomerSimpson]

If the game is non-profit and fanbased, it'll probably won't come to any lawsuit. The abbreviation LBA isn't trademarked anyway, I think.

And I think you can call the characters/universe anything you want. Since it's a fangame (like some of the commander Keen series and such). If you clearly state the copyright holders (Twinsen is © by Adeline, for example) I think it really isn't a problem.


Of course, when doing it for money ---> Prepare to get sued

[Tricky]

Hopefully you're right, Adeline is after all not an American company. Then he would probably be in serios trouble. What is it with americans and law suits?

"What do you call two layers at the bottom of the ocean?"
"A good start"

Anyway, seems like mad_eaon has taken the "better safe than sorry" approach:

ok, let's call it LBAx, as the file available on FTP is already called...

[Darkflame]

They can only sue you if it can be proved you are costing them money in someway. (ie. Sueing for lost earnings).

Its not as easy to sue people as people think.
(I mean come on, its going to cost them 1000x more then its worth in lawers fees)

[Tricky]

Well, yes and no:
They can sue for copyright infringement even if no economic damage can be proven. You simply cannot use copyrighted material in your own creations and make it publicly available. The key word here being publicly. No one can of course stop you from creating a game which contains copyrighted material. That is all fine until you make it publicly avialiable, i.e. for anyone to use, not only your family and close friends. And as much as I'd like to think that we are all friends here at MBN, I don't think that argument would stick in court, would it ever come to that, heaven forbid.
But then again, just because the can sue, that doesn't mean that they will. I very much doubt that Adeline will bother with a full-scale law suit against some of LBA's most loyal fans. Too much badwill involved in that.

Ergo: keep developing LBAx, I for one can't wait to see the final results!

More on copyright at Google Direrectory.

[Darkflame]

No, trust me on this, they can not sue just for using copywrite material.
Theres thousands of Star Trek & Star Wars pictures on Renderosity, or such...the copywriters owners are the artists, not Lucas and Rodenbery.
(they own the brands, but not the pictures)
Theres even more thousands of times when people have written "coca cola", or used another trade marked name without permision....not even under screwed up US laws can they be sued for that.

I did a hell of a lot of research on this for the RMP, using a lot of sources. I cant read of of those links, but all the reliable ones will back me up here.
(and make sure you dont accept those sites as all reliale, one charges you $99 to copywrite your site....if you made it, then you alread have it copywrited))

They can only sue if they can prove that you are devalueing their product, or losing them earnings in someway.

[Tricky]

DF, I don't wan't to be a squeeky old fart, but I beg to differ. Check out item 6 in this list.
Especially this bit:

Yes, that means almost all "fan fiction" is arguably a copyright violation

This said, I still think LBAx (and other projects such as RMP) are in the clear when it comes to being sued by an almost non-existing company. As you pointed out, it's just not worth the effort.

[mad_aeon]

Hey, it's me here, again...

I've seen a lot of postings about copyright.
Nice thing to say that on MBN we're all friends.. and what can Adeline say if I will give a copy of LBAx to each one of my 4.678.300 friends?
Anyway.. I've done something to protect myself (like calling it LBAx instead of LBA3), but I think that the game I'm making is somthing like when a child makes drawings about the cartoons or movies he likes.. Never seen Warner Bros Pictures or MGM coming and saying "Hey child, I'm sorry, that's copyrighted material, you CAN'T make drawings of your trademarked Snoopy TM" "Oh my god, here's a drawing of Popeye (c), all rights reserved. Hey boy, you're in serious trouble..."

So.. When the game will be finished, perfectly, and nothing in the game can be made better than it is, I'll start thinking about copyright.

Until that day.. I'll just go on making the game.
(Yes, I didn't forget, I'm still working on the demo II)

[HomerSimpson]

Hehe, they actually DID that mad_eaon.

When the first Harry Potter came out, the company which had rights to the movie (I thought it was WB, not sure). Actually sued little kids (like 14/15) which had a harrypotter fansite and a (for example) harrypotter.com domainname.

Sad, but true.

[mad_aeon]

Well, I don't have a web site... Hell now I must look where my drawings made when I was 8 are... I was making drawings of so many cartoons.. Hey what's that noise outside? Men in black are coming.. They're coming for me.. HEEEELP!

---
"So.. When the game will be finished, perfectly, and nothing in the game can be made better than it is, I'll start thinking about copyright."
---
That means... Never

[Atresica]

On the topic of fanfiction: The law simply isn't too clear about it. What did happen (and that is the reason why producers of TV-series and such prefer to keep the hell away from fanfiction) is that one time the producer of Babylon 5 was sued by a fanfiction writing because this writer claimed he used one of his fanfictions.

Also, despite they did sue those kids it doesn't mean they were right. (they would lose the cases anyway so they hoped the threats would accomplish enough)

[Darkflame]

when sueing a website, it was almost certainly over a domain name, not the content.

If it is not obvious that your creation "isnt official", then they can (quite rightly) claim you are tricking the public and hence devalueing the brand.


Tricky ~ No, they cant sue for that. A copywrite volalation only proves you have used something that is someelse's"mental property", it does not automaticaly give you the right to sue.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Darkflame
Tricky ~ No, they cant sue for that. A copywrite volalation only proves you have used something that is someelse's"mental property", it does not automaticaly give you the right to sue.

Did you read any of the documents from the Google Directory?

Do you really mean to say that using someone else's intellectual property is in fact aginst the law, but they can´t sue?? Gee, I'm no legal expert but I find that pretty hard to believe.

And for the "they must loose money to be able to sue": there are also statutory damages. Also, Adeline could theoretically argue that "no one will buy LBA3 since everybody id playing that awsomly cool LBAx".



The above argument is of course very hypothetical and is never going to happen. Let's end this discussion by agreeing on the fact that Adeline will never, ever engage in a law suit against any non-profit fan project.

[Darkflame]

I read most of them long before you even posted them

(and as I said before, they dont all agree, some of them contradict, and others are downright wrong....)

But the vaste majoirty actualy agree with what im saying.

And yes, a copywrite volation is not an automatic right to sue.

I have already stated they have to prove that they are losing money in some way because of you.
Either because you are using there ip for profit, or you are de-valueing their brand.

This is a fact, you can not believe it if you want too, but its true.
Now, of course any good lawyer can "twist" stuff to fit the sitution, and could argue that either:

a) Your game damages the LBA brand.
ii) The public might think the game is official, and as the game isnt upto LBA's quality it will damage the companys reputation.

b) You are making profits from their IP. (if you charge in any way shape or form).


But they can not, and are not either sued just because they used the brand..




Can Coca Cola sue me for just writing "Coca Cola" ?

Of course not

Its the exact same for LBA, or any other brand.

[TheMagicalElephant]

Actually. If he will call it LBAx and make it a non commercial project. They have no reason to sue him. But if he will use the name LBA 3. They could sue him. Even if this will be a non commercial project.

----------

BTW-> It's not that they don't have the RIGHT to sue someone. They just usually don't do this.

[Darkflame]

No, you miss the point.
Its not just that they dont, its that they cant

If he called it LBA3 he could only be sued if it could be mistakeing for the "real" LBA3...which may well be the case.

But he would not, and could not be sued mearly for using the words "LBA3".

There is a subtle difference here.

[Tricky]

Since, as I stated in an earlier post, we are all friends here at MBN I am not going to push this any further. And we all seem to agree on that will be no law suit. So lets just leave it at that. Peace.






But I know I'm right

[Darkflame]

/me slaps Tricky with a bunch of lawyers

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Darkflame
/me slaps Tricky with a bunch of lawyers

Ouch! That really hurt!!

Now seriously folks, if we could concentrate on the main issue here, i.e. beta testing. these are my findings up til now (and I have to warn ya, I'm not quite sober, this beeing friday night and everything sho theere miught be shome shpelling misstacesh):[list=1][*]Installation: for the "official" demo, you will have to make the files go in the right place immedeately. This would be fairly easily accomplished wit a self-extractin zip file. Also, it's not a good idea to force te target directory (LBAx) to be installed directly under C:\. You should have the option to install in a folder of your choice, e.g. Program Files or, in my case, Games. Also, and I'm sure this is already in your master plan, there shouldn't be the need for manualy extracting files into different directories, that should be taken care of in the setup process.[*]The book should without a question be skipable. The third time you start the game it's just dowright annoying. I also think it shouds be centered on the screen. Again, I'me sure yoou've alredy thaught of this.[*]In every scene (including the book) there is a small white dot. When rotating the map so you get it as close as possible it looks like a tiny talk balloon, like the one with "I'm sorry, my A.I. isn't implemented yet". Perhaps some reference ("origin") point? - One of them is exacty in one of the lower corners of Twinsen's (?) house.[*]The walk (in normal mode) is a bit too slow[*]Unlike some previous posters, I've always started inside the cell. But a few times when leaving the citadel/asylum(?) I've found myself litterally in the dark. At these times I can see the edge of the next scene (elevtor or the house), but I (or rather Twinsen) have to walk a distance to get into the actual scene.[*]One word: ZOOM! When enabeling debug mode you can click "Scroll wheel". This gives you the opportunity to zoom in and out of the picture. Yes yes yes, me want![*]Game hangs if pressing F5 and then Esc before the key mapping screen is visible.[*]That's one helluva fast elevator! You might consider slowing it down a bit, the g-forces are killing me [*]I can't get into the bedroom in the house, but maybe you aren't supposed to.[/list=1]

OK, those were the bad news. But I'd like to end this post in a positive spirit, so here goes:[list=1][*]Overall impression for a firrst beta (not to say alpha): WOW!!! [*]Everything look very "LBAish", you've certainly gort the atmosphere right. [*]The nurse's "Sorry mr. Twinsen..." reply indicates that you've got the right tounge-in-cheek attitude.[*]I very much like the health and magic icons in the bottom left corner. That way you don't have to press any key to find out you current status.[*]No problem with frame rate with my setup, well over 100 fps.[*]Once more with feeling: THIS LOOKS VERY, VERY PROMISING![/list=1]

I can't even begin to tell you how thrilled I would be if this project got through the beta stage and into a 1.0 release. I for one will give you all and any support that is in my power. I wish you the very best of luck with the continued developement!

[Darkflame]

I agree the book should be skipable too, but the plot actualy looks quite good.
Going back to LBA1's atmosphere a bit

Incidently, the game works much better with my new graphics crad, its playable

[nout]

Where can I download the demo of this game?

[Tricky]

Here. Check the installation instructions carfully, it's still a bit beta-ish.

[Echomote]

Why dont u just make a LBA game with the BETTER LBA1 graffics insteed of 3D.
I would myself but I cant find a program that makes that type of game... does any1 know where I can get 1????????

[ChaosFish]

You still can't, Dan.
But such a program is in development at http://www.yaz0r.net/lba.php

Welcome btw