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General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

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  #1  
Old 2015-02-14, 03:20
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F2bnp F2bnp is offline
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Let's talk about LBA 3

Hey guys, old member here (mostly lurker).
I've been looking at the latest news for LBA games with a certain amount of excitement. Frederik has finally assembled a team, is re-making a name for himself, making games and most importantly has reacquired the license to LBA. On top of this, the LBA games are available on GoG and the first one on Android as well and crowdfunding and digital distribution negate the need for a retail publisher.

I think it is pretty safe to assume that these are pretty exciting times for us. In sharp contrast to previous years, speculating on a hypothetical LBA3 actually makes sense and is not just wishful thinking.
I'll start with some of my own thoughts on this.

First off, I'd love to see LBA3 pick up where 2 left off. Unfortunately, it will have to cater to newcomers as well, which always makes me cautious on other franchises as well. On that note, HOW will LBA 3 play? It may sound like a silly question, but think about it. Is there a need for an isometric camera anymore? It is my understanding that the isometric camera was used just because technology wasn't there yet and couldn't render vast distances. LBA 1 used pre-rendered backgrounds where as LBA2 rendered the entire 3D scene on every camera change.

Should LBA3 incorporate an isometric camera and if so should it allow for full rotation and whatnot? If not, how do you think LBA3 play? It also seems to me that the behavior system will feel out of place nowadays.
In terms of setting, I always felt like LBA1 had a pretty serious premise, despite its cute looks. It showed us how an oppressive dictatorship censored free speech and thought, how Twinsen got tortured for expressing his dreams etc

LBA2 was much more commonplace in a way, although there still are a lot of underlying themes that are not apparent at first sight. I think Frederick and his team excelled at making these games kid friendly, but with all sorts of winks and challenges for an older audience. The premise and setting is really what has me pumped up for an LBA3 in the future.

Sorry for the semi-long post, I'd love to see some ideas on the subject.
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Old 2015-02-14, 05:51
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I post here some warm words about all of it.

I'm too join to those exellent news so late. I was badly ill by depression in 2 years and recovered just a little time ago. When I felt better I returned to my life and also took up a CD of LBA2 from a cupboard and started to play it! I worried about my depression, cause when you're in a depress, all things looks like nothing... But I spent about 4 hours (LBA2's playtime) with really big feelings! I was really happy that I found this game in my childhood. Even if it has a poor grafics, old gameplay, but it still clear depressing and so great! It's unreally wonderfull... And I cried. X.)

After that I drew a picture with Twinsen, Zoe & Arthur (it was placed in FanArt), read the forum and was shocked about all of news. : OOOOO

Quote:
Unfortunately, it will have to cater to newcomers as well, which always makes me cautious on other franchises as well.
Yes, it is. I think newcomers will have a little interest in new game. Most today's gamers are not looks like gamers from 90-2000 years. They like good grafic, they eat games as fastfood and wants more. Not all of them, I said "most". The brother of my spouse often read all game news and hate most of new games cause they are stupid for him. They are so similar to each other! But young gamers play in them! And game industry give this "fastfood" them. A big part of newcomers may have no interest in LBA... (sorry, I'm realist) but I still hope that LBA3 will get good promotion and will be popular just like a good game from the past. Releasing LBA and LBA2 (i hope!) on mobile platforms is a right step to popularity here.

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Is there a need for an isometric camera anymore?
I don't think so. As you say, isometric was usefull and good for 95-97 years. And what about 2015, for now It will better with "clever" camera and playing from the third person. Do you saw games like "The Journey"?

Quote:
I always felt like LBA1 had a pretty serious premise, despite its cute looks. It showed us how an oppressive dictatorship censored free speech and thought, how Twinsen got tortured for expressing his dreams etc
I thought about this thing. Is it a trying of F.R. for releasing his own sight on political moments or something else like it? Like dictators in game develompent (for example)?

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I think Frederick and his team excelled at making these games kid friendly, but with all sorts of winks and challenges for an older audience.
I think that it's the only right way to create all stories/games/movies for children. They must to teach children good and show them the reality of this world. For same things I like our russian book "Neznajka na Lune" by N. Nosov. You must hear about it book, it was very popular in all world. )

And sorry for a long post too.
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Last edited by Bestary; 2015-02-14 at 05:53. Reason: omg, line breaks attacks!
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  #3  
Old 2015-02-14, 19:48
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My takes;

Quote:
Originally Posted by F2bnp View Post

First off, I'd love to see LBA3 pick up where 2 left off. Unfortunately, it will have to cater to newcomers as well, which always makes me cautious on other franchises as well.
For this reason I think its almost certain it wont use or mention "3" anywhere in the title.
It will be "Genisis of the Stela Enity" or some other subtitle, and it will pretend as much as possible to be a new game for newcomers.


Quote:
On that note, HOW will LBA 3 play? It may sound like a silly question, but think about it. Is there a need for an isometric camera anymore? It is my understanding that the isometric camera was used just because technology wasn't there yet and couldn't render vast distances. LBA 1 used pre-rendered backgrounds where as LBA2 rendered the entire 3D scene on every camera change.
I think its safe to say it will all be 3D, but they might use some Isometrix angles in some places if it makes sense.
I personal hope at the very least they consider making the roofs and upperfloors invisible when you go indoors and leave the camera high up.

Lots of games try to cram a full 3d camera right up against the wall making indoor navigation hard

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It also seems to me that the behavior system will feel out of place nowadays.
It would indeed. Athletic can be automatic and Aggressive can be context sensitive.

On the other hand, I still like the option of sneaking around, and with traditional PC control's thats hard without some sort of button.
(consoles could just use the analogue stick and you move it softer to go sneaky).

Additionally, I like thinking about other uses of modes. In their 2Dark game they are using a sound based system too alert enemies. Wouldn't it be cool to have that also built into the LBA engine?

Quote:
I think Frederick and his team excelled at making these games kid friendly, but with all sorts of winks and challenges for an older audience. The premise and setting is really what has me pumped up for an LBA3 in the future.
oh, Adults typically get blood and gore - but children get the REALLY messed up stuff
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  #4  
Old 2015-02-15, 01:54
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I don't know about the behavior system, after all, Assassin's Creed has one, and the game sold quite well...

I never felt like LBA1 was oppressive, must be all the light colours, but I always found it cute... If it was realistic, then maybe it could've been a nice contrast with the political system, but no, the scenery looks like plastic toys and the colours are really EXTREMELY vivid. Too cute to be oppressing for me.

Bestary : "Most today's gamers are not looks like gamers from 90-2000 years. They like good grafic,"
Hah, what do you think LBA1 got its praise back in the days when it came out ? For its top graphics
Seriously, I have a copy of EDGE from 1995, they speak about "astonishing animations Adeline has managed to accomplish.", "the scenery, too, is fabulously detailed".
Lol, they compare Twinsen's movement to car, his behaviors being four gears

I don't mean to say that the graphics look bad, or that the story setting is not good, but don't be too harsh on today's gamers. I believe they aren't much different from they were back in the days
(Except maybe casuals which is something that didn't exist by then, but that's another debate.)
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  #5  
Old 2015-02-15, 13:59
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Good points everyone! DarkFlame you're probably right about them not calling it LBA3. I just hope it doesn't alienate fans.

I should also add that I feel that there is something really appealing to gouraud shaded objects and characters. The lack of textures makes you use your imagination to fill in the gaps.
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Old 2015-02-15, 16:50
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I hope sort of for that reason they dont go totally realistic. While I expect sharper and "cleaner" - we dont need super high res textures and bump maps everywhere.

Some sort of non-realistic shader might work too.
Maybe a painted look like Nintendo seems to be going for in the new Zelda;


Obviously budget constraints make it unfair to expect something with that scope though.
We are talking a team of, maybe, 10 people, not 300 or whatever Zelda has.
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Old 2015-02-15, 18:00
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As long as the original team of Adeline makes LBA 3, I'll be grateful with whatever it comes out to be and the decisions they make.

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Old 2015-02-15, 21:00
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
As long as the original team of Adeline makes LBA 3, I'll be grateful with whatever it comes out to be and the decisions they make.
!!!
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Old 2015-02-16, 06:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Hah, what do you think LBA1 got its praise back in the days when it came out ? For its top graphics
No, I just imagined this situation: young gamer about 14 years, who never knew about LBA, plays in LBA3, finds it cool and starting to learn more about Twinsen's story. And finding LBA and LBA2. And shocking about grafics and old gameplay. I remember how I tried to show LBA2 to my school friends in about 2000-2002 years... Why they found them strange and hard to play? .___. That's that makes me think about those bad thoughts...

Quote:
but don't be too harsh on today's gamers. I believe they aren't much different from they were back in the days
Sorry for this. But I just very worried about how my favorite game will be accepted in today's reality.


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Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Maybe a painted look like Nintendo seems to be going for in the new Zelda
It sounds tasty! It will be good if some scenes will looks something like this. Small development team also can create something near by this (even for a 5% of scenes, even not so great as Nintendo can - fans WILL BE DELIGHTED!)
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Old 2015-02-16, 13:52
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when LBA3??? Considering art style, flat cell-shaded cartoony look would fit it perfectly.
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  #11  
Old 2015-02-16, 15:24
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Anything but Rayman Origin's character design, PLEASE.
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Old 2015-02-16, 15:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
As long as the original team of Adeline makes LBA 3, I'll be grateful with whatever it comes out to be and the decisions they make.
Well, the 2Dark team is pretty close.
But the big missing ingredient is Philippe Vachey!
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Old 2015-02-18, 17:24
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so when LBA3 please
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Old 2015-02-19, 23:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia
The second paragraph is very weird.
I believe your assumptions ("you guys have your good lives", "utopian view on the world everyone else here has") go definitely too far, especially considering the size of our community and its diversification.
Sure, it does go too far. But it's based on my observation of this community. I mean, I notice that most of the oldbies seem to be financially well-off enough to afford traveling around europe for MBN meetings, etc. They also seem to be able to afford hardware upgrades much more often than I can.
And it also shows in every single discussion about how LBA 3 should be, with those same members generally supporting the notion of a LBA 3 adopting the latest techniques just because they have the hardware that can do it and want a LBA 3 that fulfills all their dreams, completely disregarding the rest of the community that's not as fortunate as them. And it bothers because if there is no dissenting voice, Fred & Co. might see that, and actually use those wrong ideas about how LBA 3 should be, and therefore come up with a game 66% of the world won't be even able to play.
I've been waiting for LBA 3 since 1997 now, and I'd be incredibly disappointed if its system requirements exceeded my hardware and therefore I (and others like me) couldn't play it. It would even increase the gap among the two kinds of members of this forum even further, as there'd be the more fortunate ones, joyfully describing how they played LBA 3 and how awesome it is, and us, the less fortunate ones, who would still keep only dreaming about it. It would literally tear the community in two.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2015-02-20 at 01:53.
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Old 2015-02-20, 01:34
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Ok, finished splitting.
I did my best to look for anything relevant to LBA3, if I missed anything let me know. The other thread is in offtopic.
Everyone has the right to their view/counterview/countercounterview etc, but please keep it civil. Take a little break before posting sometimes helps me to see the other persons view better.
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Old 2015-02-20, 02:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Sure, it does go too far. But it's based on my observation of this community. I mean, I notice that most of the oldbies seem to be financially well-off enough to afford traveling around europe for MBN meetings, etc. They also seem to be able to afford hardware upgrades much more often than I can.
And it also shows in every single discussion about how LBA 3 should be, with those same members generally supporting the notion of a LBA 3 adopting the latest techniques just because they have the hardware that can do it and want a LBA 3 that fulfills all their dreams, completely disregarding the rest of the community that's not as fortunate as them. And it bothers because if there is no dissenting voice, Fred & Co. might see that, and actually use those wrong ideas about how LBA 3 should be, and therefore come up with a game 66% of the world won't be even able to play.
I've been waiting for LBA 3 since 1997 now, and I'd be incredibly disappointed if its system requirements exceeded my hardware and therefore I (and others like me) couldn't play it. It would even increase the gap among the two kinds of members of this forum even further, as there'd be the more fortunate ones, joyfully describing how they played LBA 3 and how awesome it is, and us, the less fortunate ones, who would still keep only dreaming about it. It would literally tear the community in two.
Id just like to say I have personally never wanted it using the latest tech.

If the post from Zelda earlier gave that impression, I obviously didn't make it clear enough. Its just a art direction I like. I dont expect or demand that scope.

While good art is tricky to pull off, it does not need state of the art graphic cards. Ideally you do need shader support (so last 10 years), but overall it should let you get away with lower specs.

For example, you can use much lower res textures (or even flat shades) if your not going for realism. Bumpmaps and normal maps can be completely unused. Models can be lower res in places too.

LBA is not a massively mass market game. I think if marketed it can sale a few million, but its not going to be the people with Crises-level pcs all buying it.
High spec requirements will needlessly limit its market.

As for myself; My PCs a mix of random bits. I can afford much better - I do admit I am fairly wealthy compared to most - but not everyone prioritises their pcs anyway. Sure, I love games. But I still got plenty of AAA (quality) Nintendo DS games to play (note; not 3ds, not new 3ds. just ds)
Living a generation behind lets you play a lot of fantastic stuff cheaper while avoiding the big disappointments. ^_^
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Old 2015-02-21, 01:09
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The original team has to do it. Definitely
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Old 2015-02-24, 11:29
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Can someone bring me up to speed? why does it seem likely now that lba3 will be made?
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Old 2015-02-24, 11:43
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Fred having the rights back, LBA android remake doing not-so-bad (I think ?) and Fred with his team making a game again.
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Old 2015-02-24, 11:50
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which game is that? the horror thing?
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Old 2015-02-24, 13:05
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Yep.
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Old 2015-02-24, 13:35
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As long as a new LBA is not officially announced by them, I do not expect them to bring it out. I'm already waiting for toooo long.
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Old 2015-09-24, 07:37
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If we take everyone's opinion and think a little bit I find this conclusion :

What LBA fans like :
- Everything because we are fans
What LBA fans dislike :
- Sides project are dead (Prequel, etc)
- There's no LBA 3 since +20 years


What LBA friend's fan like :
- Graphic for the time
- Killer story
- Music (Philippe Vachey)


What LBA friend's fan dislike :
- Game is too hard
- Gameplay isn't intuitive


What isn't clear of :
- Isometric: Yes or No?


So what we need here is a game considering they have a dev team of about 10 person is game that can be realized for real in the actual conditions :

What it absolutely needed :
- Killer story (sequel or prequel)
- Killer music (Philippe Vachey)
- Intuitive gameplay
- Correct graphics


What only Ubisoft can afford :
- Unbelievable graphics
- Mostly poor story
- Side quests


So guys when I check what we absolutely need is an awesome story and this doesn't cost a dime. Then an awesome scenario for the story with good puzzle (they need to avoid linear shit). Graphics aren't important when everything else is correctly done and I'm sure they still can afford a simple engine that keeps the nice cartoonish side we all love. Then an awesome gameplay that isn't too much complicated. But a gameplay that'll keep the basics of what we have in twinsen right now. Then beautiful music (this is important).

So that's not complicated and fairly possible, hope Fred could see this and maybe he could too see my WR where I break his game haha
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Old 2015-09-24, 10:26
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Graphics aren't important when everything else is correctly done and I'm sure they still can afford a simple engine that keeps the nice cartoonish side we all love.
They're not important because we don't want something realistic, best 3D etc ... when we see the current motor engine, it won't be difficult to do something better (graphically) than LBA 1&2.
So yes, story, gameplay, and hidden meca-penguin are essential !
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Old 2015-09-24, 13:46
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I suspect if LBA3 does happen then it will look and play remarkably like the previous entries in the series (with obviously more up to date graphics and the like)

Why? Because it won't be a AAA game. It will probably be something done on an indy/kickstarter scale specifically for the sort of people who liked the originals.
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