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LbaX LbaX is an unofficial non profit sequel of Little Big Adventure 1 and 2 (homepage)

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  #76  
Old 2007-09-16, 22:03
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- Horadrim: Ahhh, so you give the things to Jasiek, but not to Quetch as well? I think this is called discrimination. I seriously think you need to get over that incident for once. Also, what he did back then wasn't even wrong. So he based his models off yours in very details? Well, didn't you also base a lot of your stuff on the original LBA 1, and 2, graphics by Adeline Software International? And it's not, like they came here complaining.

Seriously, if all the crap you used against Quetch in that thread back then was true, then how come the Adeline guys don't just sue all of us? We are, after all, reverse-engineering their work, and also basing our graphics on theirs, so by your logic, they should come here, request this forum to be taken down, and if it didn't get taken down, hold grudges against us all for ages. But did they do that? Not really.

Why could the Relentless Movie Project make their stuff open for everyone, while you couldn't do the same with your models, and textures? I think it's quite simple - you're trying to do everything, just in order to prevent Quetch from accessing that stuff. This, mate, is called SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDING SOMEONE, which is a form of DISCRIMINATION.

Good God, what damage did Quetch cause to you? Absolutely none. Yet, you're crucifying him, and discriminating against him, like that. For God's sake, people are distributing videos from my Ring site on YouTube, without even giving me a heck of a credit, which is doing way more harm, than what Quetch did, since it harms my site's popularity, but do you see me requesting the YouTube staff to Ban them? Not really. And do I hold grudges against them for life? Once again - NOT.

And before anyone starts flaming the heck out of me - yes, he has the right to refuse, or not, to share his stuff, but he has absolutely no right to refuse to send even a screenshot to someone, but send everything to someone else. This is, once again, discrimination. And discrimination is completely wrong.

- Horadrim: NOTE: In no way do I hate you, or something, but I just don't like the way you're treating Quetch. He did not cause you any harm, so you have absolutely no reason to treat him the way you're currently treating him. Especially you have absolutely no reason to hold a grudge against him, because the stuff, that happened, wasn't wrong, was far in the past, and didn't cause you any harm.
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  #77  
Old 2007-09-16, 22:06
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Some vocabulary lesson for you:
Quote:
Most broadly, discrimination is the discernment of qualities and rejection of subjects with undesirable qualities.
Discrimination would it be when they wouldn't let him access it because of his skin color, his religion, the size of his ears, etc.
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  #78  
Old 2007-09-16, 22:11
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- Kobold: Yes, that's the MOST BROAD meaning, but not the only meaning. Discrimination is essentially, what he did - refusing to send Quetch the stuff, because he didn't like him. Essentially, he said: "I don't like you, because you broke my selfish over-protectivity of my work, so I refuse to send you even a screenshot, but I'm going to send everything to Horadrim". He should treat everyone equally, what he didn't do. That's all.
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  #79  
Old 2007-09-16, 22:49
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Ahem, discrimination is about excluding someone. This more sounds like specifically giving it to someone. When I'm sending private files, noone else has the right to get them, not even when he says it's "discrimination" that he doesn't get them.
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  #80  
Old 2007-09-16, 23:09
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You love your own children but not others .

Yay, Obras-classic is back

No seriously, what has horadrim done against quetch?
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  #81  
Old 2007-09-16, 23:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBrasilo View Post
- Horadrim: Ahhh, so you give the things to Jasiek, but not to Quetch as well? I think this is called discrimination. I seriously think you need to get over that incident for once. Also, what he did back then wasn't even wrong. So he based his models off yours in very details? Well, didn't you also base a lot of your stuff on the original LBA 1, and 2, graphics by Adeline Software International? And it's not, like they came here complaining.

Seriously, if all the crap you used against Quetch in that thread back then was true, then how come the Adeline guys don't just sue all of us? We are, after all, reverse-engineering their work, and also basing our graphics on theirs, so by your logic, they should come here, request this forum to be taken down, and if it didn't get taken down, hold grudges against us all for ages. But did they do that? Not really.

Why could the Relentless Movie Project make their stuff open for everyone, while you couldn't do the same with your models, and textures? I think it's quite simple - you're trying to do everything, just in order to prevent Quetch from accessing that stuff. This, mate, is called SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDING SOMEONE, which is a form of DISCRIMINATION.

Good God, what damage did Quetch cause to you? Absolutely none. Yet, you're crucifying him, and discriminating against him, like that. For God's sake, people are distributing videos from my Ring site on YouTube, without even giving me a heck of a credit, which is doing way more harm, than what Quetch did, since it harms my site's popularity, but do you see me requesting the YouTube staff to Ban them? Not really. And do I hold grudges against them for life? Once again - NOT.

And before anyone starts flaming the heck out of me - yes, he has the right to refuse, or not, to share his stuff, but he has absolutely no right to refuse to send even a screenshot to someone, but send everything to someone else. This is, once again, discrimination. And discrimination is completely wrong.

- Horadrim: NOTE: In no way do I hate you, or something, but I just don't like the way you're treating Quetch. He did not cause you any harm, so you have absolutely no reason to treat him the way you're currently treating him. Especially you have absolutely no reason to hold a grudge against him, because the stuff, that happened, wasn't wrong, was far in the past, and didn't cause you any harm.
Where did you saw "Quetch" in any of my last post? I said many times, that my models are completely my own resolution of the isometric ones. The textures I made are also mine, I draw them. The ones which are from screenshots and such, were made by mad_aeon. I made nothing "after" Adeline's work, my stuff aren`t even reproduction, just because they`re not the same, they`re in 3d for pits` sake! I don`t see why you`re opening that theme. I do not discriminate anyone, I use my right to give my property to whoever I want, besides LBAx may be free non-profit game project, but no one said that it will be open source. Capiche?


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  #82  
Old 2007-09-16, 23:51
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- Horadrim: A few posts before your last one, you clearly refused to give Quetch even a screenshot of LbaX, because of what he did almost a year ago.
Also, you still used the original LBA games as a reference for your work, you didn't invent completely new designs from scratch, so essentially, your work is a 3-D re-production of the original Adeline Software International isometric work.
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  #83  
Old 2007-09-17, 00:35
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Under "last posts" I mentioned the posts, concerning the models and the textures. Even talking about the post you mentioned, you maybe missed this:
Quote:
I really don't want to release ANY materials from LBAx, no matter who's asking for them...
. If you put everything in this way - If im going to keep the stuff, and don`t give the to anyone, I could do it. But if I wish to contribute to the LBA1R project, I could make models and textures for it and no one can blame me for that. You could think whatever you want about the casus "are my models made over Adelines` or not?", but it`s matter of fact that it was entirely my idea how to place every single vertex, polygon or pixel in the models/textures. And I believe that this is intellectual property. Now look from this point of view for the rest of the vertices, polys and pixels. What is the picture then? Does Adeline have any rights over them? I don`t tnink so.
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  #84  
Old 2007-09-17, 01:54
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- Horadrim: Maybe we should quote the relevant rest of the post as well:
Quote:
Quetch, I can't really understand why you're weeping so much for materials from the LBAx project. Since the last time I released the last demo and all these stuff you've done with my models and textures, I really don't want to release ANY materials from LBAx, no matter who's asking for them.
. It seemed, as if it was Quetch's fault, that you won't release anything to anyone. Maybe I got it wrong, but that's the feeling I got from that part of the post. Now, correc tme, if I'm wrong.

As for the copyright thing, let's take, say, a cup-board. Your re-ecreation still has the same design, albeit in a different formats. It still has the etchings, where they appeared in the original Brick Layout, only this time, expressed with differently-indented polygons, rather than a darker, or brighter, color. And yes, they do have the rights over their design from the LBA games.

Also, that's not my complete point. There are LBA fan games, that do use stuff, directly derived from the original LBA 1, and 2, material. So it's original work by Adeline Software International being used for third-party projects. Now, by your logic, Frédérick Raynal & Co. should join this forum, request those people to get Banned, and if they don't get Banned, hold grudges for life against them, like you do with Quetch.
But do you seem them doing that? Not at all. And that's my point.
While it's right to stand for your own rights, you should do it, when harm is being caused. Did Quetch cause you any harm? Not really. And he did, what he did, here on the MBN, where people already know it's your work, or at least based on it, anyway. Also, it's not, like your work is commercial, and he was "pirating" it in any way.
Plus, as he clearly stated, he DID NOT KNOW, THAT IT WAS WRONG. Get that into your head at once.

That's my point. You not only over-reacted at Quetch back then, but are still continuing to this day, even though he stopped using that controversial material almost immediately upon you pointing it out, that it was wrong.
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  #85  
Old 2007-09-17, 19:19
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I don`t care what is your point of view anyway. None of the models are the same, made by Adeline, they are similar, but not the same. If you could not understand this, it`s your problem then. I do not have any intentions to continue this conversation anymore. Read some more about copyrights, and even about patents, then play the lawyer role. I study design at the university and I know very well the difference between stealing ideas and borrowing them, then turning them in something similar, using heuristics. Do you have any plain idea how designers work? Few percent imagination, few percent references or borrowing of ideas and turning them in something different. Do you think that in the entire LBA world everything was entirely made out of the imagination of the Adeline designers? May be the celling you see here was stolen as idea from LBA1: http://www.fairwayvinyl.com/images/fence/fenceBig.jpg. I`m pretty sure that almost every model in the both games have any analog or was inspired by something in the real life.
And by the way, it is my buisness what attitude I`ll have to anyone. I`m not under any obligation to give materials from LBAx or anything else I made/have, just because someone asked me, nevermind how polite he/she was. I have the right to refuse and I use it as you see. Anyway, it is very useless to continue this argue. You gave your opinion, I consider it wrong. Trying to make me think in your way, could just turn you into another irritant person for me.
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  #86  
Old 2007-09-17, 23:20
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sorry I couldn't post but I didn't see the discussion I thought the thread was dead again but it seems not :

Obras : thank u for keeping me up and still defending me after all this time it's amazing what people can do with just an internet friendship thanks man ... I really do appreciate it and u don't know how warm and fuzzy this makes me feel thanks

Horadrim : I don't care whether u are passed over it or not, though I really hope you are cause I want u to understand that I didn't want to steal anything from you ... it was my first ever 3D project and your models helped me start modeling in the first place, along with Jasiek's countless advices. Now I repeat, I don't care about me anymore, but please don't take away other's rights ( such as Jasiek or the TGR or Prequel teams ) to benefit from LBAX's wonderful work ... just because you were mad at me doesn't mean u should deprive others from getting a speed and quality boost in their projects ... you know, when I first made that 3d game ( the disputed one ), actually, before releasing it, I was so happy that you will see your textures and some model alikes, that I couldn't wait to hear from u ... until I saw your reaction was contrary all I wanted to do was to make something for you all ... please understand that I do not want to say "hey I made this, it's mine and I take the credit" ... even if I hack every single fan project around here, I do it only to get the necessary materials to put together a fun game for all of us to play ... now back to the subject : please give the materials to Jasiek and others who you think might find it useful and don't be mad on Obras either he only wanted to take my part as we both share the same POV ... thanks
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  #87  
Old 2007-09-18, 15:32
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seriously, obras, what the fuck? its HIS stuff and he decides what to do with them.
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  #88  
Old 2007-09-18, 15:47
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Well, this thread certainly turned to shit...
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  #89  
Old 2007-09-20, 00:41
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well, i don't know the prologue of the above argument - reading in between the lines i come to the conclusion that Quetch used Horadrim's material for his game without asking for permission.

his use won't count as "fair use", i assume. therefore i'm quite sure Horadrim's copyright was infringed. nevertheless, to avoid such unintended infringements, i would propose that you, Horadrim, start to put visible licenses on your work. i mean it's not a big deal to put a small (C) on images or the creative commons symbols, if you plan to publish under one of those licenses (which i personally would embrace) or attach a license file to a model
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  #90  
Old 2007-09-20, 00:45
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He can't really put a (C) on his work because it is based on a game by Adeline and they have copyright on it, so thus it's sort of illegal to place copyright on his work.
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  #91  
Old 2007-09-20, 00:56
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huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horadrim
None of the models are the same, made by Adeline, they are similar, but not the same
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  #92  
Old 2007-09-20, 00:59
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Now I'm in a knot.
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  #93  
Old 2007-09-20, 10:27
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I can`t put any (c) signs over my models, just because these signs would be visible in the game. Imagine hundreds of models with a (c) by: my name here and so on.
The models ar mine, the textures too, I can even sell them if I wish. Just for a reference, take a look at this site:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Ind...x=0&Submit.y=0

I`m sure that there are other examples of the so called by me "similar models". I`m very far from the idea that LEGO earns any income from the sales at turbosquid. Furthermore, turbosquid is a legal place for selling models and textures.
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  #94  
Old 2007-09-20, 13:41
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Never liked LEGO Starwars etc, so you can actully sell LBAx if you complete it as a actual game and not just freeware under MBN fangames?

PLEASE! Don't give up! We need something to keep us busy till the offical LBA3 comes out!
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  #95  
Old 2007-09-20, 15:03
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of course you aren't supposed to actually put a (C) on the ingame textures.
as is said, you could attach a license file or - alternatively - not use direct links to your creations but an intermediate linkpage, where you can place a big fat (C) between the links
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  #96  
Old 2007-09-20, 17:04
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If you'd have followed recent images by Horadrim, notably those of the pharmacy he made for Jasiek's LBA Remake, they have quite big copyright notices.
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  #97  
Old 2007-09-20, 21:25
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still my main question arises : why did u let those files revealed in folders ??? in every game of mine, I encrypt the files in a big package or in the .exe itself u should try it
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  #98  
Old 2007-09-20, 23:22
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Don`t tell this to me, tell it to mad_aeon. He is the main coder of the project. Besides, even if the files are in revealed folders this doesn`t mean that you should take advantage of this. Even being encrypted, the files still could be accessed, for example see what happened with the MPQ archives, that Blizzard paid tons of money for.
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  #99  
Old 2007-09-21, 14:40
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yeah but one thing is to lay out the files in 3ds format and another thing is to pack it ... not all n00bs can use hex editing to depack stuff
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  #100  
Old 2007-09-21, 18:12
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Just wondering Horadrim (this is already as offtopic as can be...), how many companies are interested in buying these models you done (3D lego)? I'm more interested in general for free-lance designers .
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