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LBA1 Speedrunning Just how fast can LBA1 be done?

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  #1  
Old 2016-05-28, 20:16
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Post Android Version Glitch Repo

Hi everyone, I'm making this thread so that every Android related glitch can be post in here as an archive.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:01
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Thanks Freeman, great initiative! I'll also link to the thread here, in Talabarbes member announcement, in which the Android glitches were first discussed, along with the posts from that thread with relevant glitches found:
https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?p=453516

Written by Homeless in thread: Unfortunately not possible to death-warp as in LBA 1, which effectively makes it so you can't skip Rebellion Island. This along with not being able to meca-jump as far as I've found, makes it so you can't skip the museum either. But I bet there's even more interesting glitches to be found unique to this version.

Actually I could begin to share some of what I discovered for the Android version:

It's not the most awesome one though. I did find a way to glitch it so that Twinsen will have 4x the normal life point. It allows you to get hit 3 times by a white grobo clone without dying :

Written by Talabarbe in thread: It's appears when you save the game during the loading for the next map ! You have to load the second save created (with the most less time) and Twinsen "teleporting" on a random section of the map !

I have a video if you don't understand what i try to said
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  #3  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:02
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Couldn't reliably quote us using quote tags and still display both YouTube videos as embedded, so ended up doing it a little dirty, but it works
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  #4  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:07
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Hi Gravel Thanks for this thread !

So, there's my first glitch discover from this version ! I'm happy to call it "Save Glitch" !
Why ? Because it's appears when you save the game during the load of the next map ! You have to load the second save created (with the most less time) and Twinsen "teleporting" on a random section of the map !

You don't really understand no ? So i have a video when this glitch is in action
Enjoy and have fun with this glitch !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGFJuvOVxEg

Last edited by Talabarbe; 2016-05-28 at 22:01.
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  #5  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:08
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Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Awesome ! I use the first glitch actually for my personnal save file (I watch you video before you post it here XD)
Haha, glad to hear! I'll see if I can get around soon to recording the glitch I found in regards to getting 4 times the lifepoints, as it really is much better explain as well with a video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
It's appears when you save the game during the loading for the next map ! You have to load the second save created (with the most less time) and Twinsen "teleporting" on a random section of the map !
Wonderful find! This looks really awesome! Actually to me it doesn't look as much as it is random than it looks like you always end up at some co-ordinate in the lower right corner of the level - can you replicate this an end up in a random place on entering the same scene multiple times, or is it always in the lower right corner when getting out of the Citadel in the beginning, always in right corner on Twinsuns house part of Citadel island etc.?

I'll check this out too a bit later myself also, but if there actually is some consistency to this and that you can do it over and over and get to the same spot - and that we know later we can always get in the lower right corner of a level, then that could be super-useful potentially!
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  #6  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:21
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Had a more thorough look to the video and to me it looks like:
  1. If you exit a scene in the lower left corner while save-glitching, you will end up consistently in sort of the lower right corner.
  2. If you exit a scene in the upper right corner while save-glitching, you will end up consistently in sort of the upper-right corner.
At least from the video posted it does not look entirely random. Let us know if you find any more concrete behaviour for this Talabarbe! I'll dig around a little myself later today and see what I can find.
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  #7  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:38
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I make a mistake, i post a reply who contain the Jump Glitch video but you already do this Homeless XD What can i do ? Remove ? Edit ? It's like a double post :'(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless
I'll see if I can get around soon to recording the glitch I found in regards to getting 4 times the lifepoints, as it really is much better explain as well with a video.
Good idea ! Record it when you have some times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless
Can you replicate this an end up in a random place on entering the same scene multiple times, or is it always in the lower right corner when getting out of the Citadel in the beginning, always in right corner on Twinsuns house part of Citadel island etc.?
I'll test this and do a other video ! I was think it's random because on my personnal file, it's look like we go on the "center" of map (By center, i count texture section, the part who Twinsen can walk on it and the "black death hole section") !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless, again :p
Had a more thorough look to the video and to me it looks like:
If you exit a new scene in the lower left corner while save-glitching, you will end up consistently in sort of the lower right corner.
If you exit a in through the upper right corner while save-glitching, you will end up consistently in sort of the upper-right corner.
Interresting ! I didn't was think like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless, the reborn
I'll dig around a little myself later today and see what I can find.
Thanks If others persons have the Android version of LBA1, and if they have times, can we help us on the exploration of this glitch ? It'll be so nice !
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  #8  
Old 2016-05-28, 21:49
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Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
I make a mistake, i post a reply who contain the Jump Glitch video but you already do this Homeless XD What can i do ? Remove ? Edit ? It's like a double post :'(
I think it's fine, keep it if you want, no big deal I'm thinking personally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
I'll test this and do a other video ! I was think it's random because on my personnal file, it's look like we go on the "center" of map (By center, i count texture section, the part who Twinsen can walk on it and the "black death hole section") !
Sounds great, looking forward to if you find anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Thanks If others persons have the Android version of LBA1, and if they have times, can we help us on the exploration of this glitch ? It'll be so nice !
There may be some interest from others as well if this save-glitch turns out to be a real nice thing and gives reliable results, we can then maybe try it out in every scene more or less, to see what gives the best result and how it can be used to optimize the route on Android. It's all up to the community if they find interest in Android version. Personally I do because of these inuque glitches, but not everyone is comfortable with the controls.
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  #9  
Old 2016-05-29, 19:17
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See revised hypothesis one post down. What is written here is not entirely accurate: I've been testing the save-glitch further today and believe that I can determine what is actually going on.

When leaving a zone (scene) and saving during the fade-out, the game most likely in my opinion saves the current zone as the one you are entering, as this variable have been exchanged during triggering the cube zone change trigger. However the position at this time have not been loaded in from the zone you are entering, thus the save instead saves the position you are having in the zone you are exiting from. My own rough estimates of the locations that one appears new zones when using the save-glitch supports this.

At first this may not seem to be the case as in certain zones you seem to enter the new zone quite far from the new zone border, however it is important to keep in mind that not many zones actually use the full size possible and vary quite heavily on where they are located on the possible zone grid.

In some zones this has the unfortunate effect of Twinsen ending up in the water, a good example of this is save-glitching when entering the zone of the Citadel harbour. The height where Twinsen exits a zone when using the save-glitch also affects the position you enter, which is evident on Principal Island at the Old Burg. When entering from the side of FunFrock's HQ you will end up below the ground at the Upper Old Burg, so the alternate zebra-crossing skip is necessary here still.

I will try this more to try and strengthen my current hypothesis of why this is happening, such as exiting a zone from a high location to see if this will affect Twinsens position in the next zone. I believe it will, I'll get back with my findings.

At this stage I have tried as far as the Old Burg. It will be very interesting to see how much this can be used to speed up the Android speedrun I believe we can get some really interesting times with this save-glitch.
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Last edited by Homeless; 2016-05-29 at 22:15.
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  #10  
Old 2016-05-29, 21:30
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I've gone through some more scenes and tested the save-glitches consistency. At first it looked like there was some random aspect to this after all, I could not understand why I sometimes on scene change ended up in a different location.

My current hypothesis, which I feel quite confident of at this time, is that the position when using the save-glitch is based on the scene entry point of the scene you are changing from.

Let me try to explain further by using examples that may not be optimal for speedrunning but will illustrate the point more clearly.

First let's assume that what we are intending to get from to Training Ground on Principal Island and that we intend to get as close to the buggy as possible. At first glance it looks like we only have 2 alternatives, one by save-glitching from outside the Library and one by save-glitching from the Old Burg.

In actuality we have far more alternatives than just 2 provided the above hypothesis is true (save-glitch entry position is dependant on the previous scene entry into the scene you are changing from).

Below are some elaborate notes that you guys can follow along with as I tested these alternatives:

Let's begin with the Old Burg. There are 3 entry points into this scene that are the most obvious:
  1. From putside of FunFrock HQ
  2. Peg Leg Street
  3. From the Traning Ground itself
However if you think about it there are an additional 8 possible entry points into the Old Burg scene, these are:
  1. Beatrice's House
  2. Two doors to the stable
  3. Old Burg Bazaar
  4. Old Burg Tavern
  5. Locksmith
  6. That one Rabbibunnies house that help you into the Locksmith
  7. On the way out from Astronomer
There is one additional point of entry possible and that is from the sewer below the FunFrock statue, but I won't count this one.

This gives a total of 10 possible positions that can be save-glitched into the Training Grounds from the Old Burg alone.

In contrast there are only 3 alternatives from outside the Library, these are:
  1. The Library
  2. From outside FunFrock HQ
  3. From the Traning Ground itself

Let's begin with the Old Burg:
  • Using the save position gained from entering the Old Burg from the Training Ground itself will give a save-glitch position, when going into the Traning Ground again, that is situated below the ground close to the buggy.
  • Using the save position gained from entering the Old Burg from outside FunFrock HQ will give a save-glitch position, when going into the Training Ground, that is situated likely below ground also but this time outside the scene.
  • Peg Leg Street entry position will as well give a position that is not useful.
  • We can then also rule out Beatrice's House.
  • Moving on to the Lower Old Burg, using the save position gained from entering the Old Burg from the Locksmith's House, we end up with a save-glitched position into the Training Ground that is also situated below the ground, about mid-way to the buggy. We need to go higher. Let's skip the other possible entry location in the Lower Old Burg and move on to the Upper.
  • Both the stables, the bazaar and the tavern will give a save-glitched position when going into the Training Ground that is outside the scenery. This is also true for the Astronomer's House.
As we can see here there clearly is no good alternative from entry points into the Old Burg that is useful for us. However the above shows that the save-glitch is highly dependent on the entry point already existing in the save when making the save-glitch.

Let's also look at the possible save-glitch position we can derive from outside the Library, going into Training Ground:
  • The main save positions from entering the Training Ground from entry positions into the scene outside the Library, these being entry points from Training Ground it self and from the scene outside FunFrock HQ, both give positions under the ground.
  • Finally, let's try the save-glitched position that we get from the entry point when we've exited the Library to the scene outside the Library. Carrying over this save position using the save-glitch when going into Training Ground will give a somewhat useful position! This time we end up just behind the toilets, a bit in the air. After a short fall we can just start running to the buggy, and we can skip jumping sand bags, dodging soldiers outside the Library etc!

The save-glitch can effectively also carry-over a glitched entry position using the save-glitch through several saves in a row, provided we end up in a position that doesn't kill us or puts us in a way to inconvenient location to be worth it. This makes it so that the possibilities opens up even more. In the final speedrun route for the Android version we may very well find that we can carry-over a position through several save-glitches in a row in order to skip key moments in the game, things such as locked gates etc.

As you can see there are A LOT of possibilities and it will take a long time to think through and test all possible combinations. There is no easy way to know for example what the inside of a building is in terms of height compared to outside scenes, unless we go through LBArchitect looking at the different scenes.

A possible example where this can be used that just came to my mind; maybe an entry point into the the Old Burg may instead fit for outside the FunFrock HQ, making it possibly possible to skip getting the red card for getting into there.
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  #11  
Old 2016-05-29, 22:05
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Well done Homeless !
This is truly an nice finding ! I can't understand all the sentences, but the few words i can perceive sounds great for a possible run of the Android Version !

Do you think it's still possible to make a video for illustrate all what you said ? Or just for an exemple ? ^^
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  #12  
Old 2016-05-29, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Well done Homeless !
This is truly an nice finding ! I can't understand all the sentences, but the few words i can perceive sounds great for a possible run of the Android Version !

Do you think it's still possible to make a video for illustrate all what you said ? Or just for an exemple ? ^^
No problem, I'll see if I can make a video of some of this
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Last edited by Homeless; 2016-05-29 at 22:42.
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  #13  
Old 2016-05-29, 22:56
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I threw together a quick and dirty video example. While recording I got some ideas for possible other strats than the one from the Library to Port-Belooga so I showcase these also in the video.

Look at example no. 2 in the video to see an example of how the save-glitch keeps the save position through more than one save instance

Nevermind the poor sound, I didn't pay attention to setting that up, just wanted to record it quick right on Android.


In example no. 3 I use inspiration from this thread https://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=17717 - Without standing on the wall portion in the Locksmith's house we wouldn't be able to gain enough height when save-glitching to the Training Ground.
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  #14  
Old 2016-05-29, 23:29
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Just wanted to add that the save-glitch also works on the Steam Enhanced version!
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  #15  
Old 2016-05-29, 23:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless
I threw together a quick and dirty video example.
That was interesting Maybe it can work on more advanced part of the game like Proxima Island or Rebellion Island ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless
Just wanted to add that the save-glitch also works on the Steam Enhanced version !
Awesome ! So, if someone want to make a speed run of the Enchanced Version, he can also do it on the PC Version ? That's sound great !
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Old 2016-05-30, 00:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless View Post
Just wanted to add that the save-glitch also works on the Steam Enhanced version!
Haha dude that's funny! Imagine all the other parts of the game where it could workÙ
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Old 2016-05-30, 01:03
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This is so dense! Haha

Also, I spent about 35 minutes trying to figure out the mechanisms as you described it in your first text post and then scrolled to see the video that explained it in 2 seconds
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Old 2016-05-30, 15:50
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I have found that there is one key difference between the save-glitch on Android compared to Enhanced PC version. Android version allows for save-glitching while in a cutscene, while the Enhanced PC version does not allow this. I've made a video to showcase the difference as well as a neat usage of the save-glitch that I found when going to White Leaf Desert from Port-Belooga. This strat allows for skipping the whole sequence of jumping to the shore, killing the solider and getting the key as this save-glitch strat positions you inside the gates:
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Old 2016-05-30, 15:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
That was interesting Maybe it can work on more advanced part of the game like Proxima Island or Rebellion Island ?
It is very well possible! I have only tried the save-glitch as far as to the entrance of the Temple of Bu. I've been trying to find the best possible route up until this point and believe there are still ways to optimize. I'll for sure be trying the save-glitch further into the game as I keep looking for opportunities to use the glitch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Awesome ! So, if someone want to make a speed run of the Enchanced Version, he can also do it on the PC Version ? That's sound great !
I think we will need to classify Android and Enhanced PC version as different speedruns unfortunately due to the way that I explain that the save-glitch differs (zone save is disabled only on Enhanced PC version when in a cutscene), though the save-glitch can still be used on Enhanced PC to make the run more effective!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravel22 View Post
Haha dude that's funny! Imagine all the other parts of the game where it could workÙ
Oh yes, this has some insane potential!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styx View Post
This is so dense! Haha

Also, I spent about 35 minutes trying to figure out the mechanisms as you described it in your first text post and then scrolled to see the video that explained it in 2 seconds
Good thing I posted the video then
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  #20  
Old 2016-05-30, 19:49
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Really awesome Zebra! Well I don't think I'll try speedrunning the Enhanced version!
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Old 2016-05-30, 23:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeless
Android version allows for save-glitching while in a cutscene, while the Enhanced PC version does not allow this.
Amazing for the Android version ! But that's really sad for the PC version Well, the android version will be the favorite version for make an LBA1 enchanced edition speed run ?

Also, i really like the BGM you use in your comparaison video ! It's not a problem if i can have the title ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman (Gordon ?)
Well I don't think I'll try speedrunning the Enhanced version !
Bad news It's because you can't use properly the Penguin Jump Glitch ? Or, you don't want to make a run on the Android version ? :'(
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Old 2016-05-30, 23:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Amazing for the Android version ! But that's really sad for the PC version Well, the android version will be the favorite version for make an LBA1 enchanced edition speed run ?

Also, i really like the BGM you use in your comparaison video ! It's not a problem if i can have the title ?

Bad news It's because you can't use properly the Penguin Jump Glitch ? Or, you don't want to make a run on the Android version ? :'(
I don't have any Android system. And if the Steam version isn't as much glitched I'm less interested. But I'm not the only speedrunner out there, I'm sure someone will make it.

What about you?
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Old 2016-05-31, 00:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreemanQC
What about you ?
I'm very interested to try a speedrun on it I have a good phone who can easily manage the game and the capture in HD60FPSomgsofuturistic without lagging ! But i think i'll have some problems who can mess this up :

- No sound because the internal audio capture is not included in my video software (Google )
- How can i manage a Speed Run timer in Android ?
- The touch control is really annoying at some points (Twinsen don't want to stop jumping ... Twinsen prefer read the information panel or talk with the pharmacist instead of hit the Yellow Grobo or recover the cherry syrup )
- My final exams ! If i can make a speedrun, i'll can really work on it at the beginning of the 10th July !

I have some solutions for the two first problem like capture the internal audio with my computer (Thanks jack extension !) and use Wsplit with my computer too ! But it means no Twitch/Hitbox live and video montage for some hours ! Maybe i can use an Android Emulator for PC but my hardware don't have the recommended settings for it !
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Old 2016-05-31, 01:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravel22 View Post
Really awesome Zebra! Well I don't think I'll try speedrunning the Enhanced version!
Thanks Freeman! I'll admit the Enhanced PC version is looking less and less interesting due to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
Amazing for the Android version ! But that's really sad for the PC version Well, the android version will be the favorite version for make an LBA1 enchanced edition speed run ?

Also, i really like the BGM you use in your comparaison video ! It's not a problem if i can have the title ?
Ssad indeed, it would have been so nice if both version worked the same and we could have them virtually be the same run. Still amazing for the Android version, it's still exciting!

No problem, glad you like it! The artist is Python Blue, an synth/retrowave/outrun artist and the track is The Nightclub on the most recent album Alias: https://future80s.bandcamp.com/album/alias
The whole of the album is amazing in my opinion!
Quote:
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I don't have any Android system. And if the Steam version isn't as much glitched I'm less interested. But I'm not the only speedrunner out there, I'm sure someone will make it.
There's always the alternative to throw in an Android emulator and see how it works out for you, if you're interested in giving the Android run a go Android emulators work pretty much splendidly these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
I'm very interested to try a speedrun on it I have a good phone who can easily manage the game and the capture in HD60FPSomgsofuturistic without lagging ! But i think i'll have some problems who can mess this up :

- No sound because the internal audio capture is not included in my video software (Google )
Can you capture the microphone otherwise? I know that alternative is in the app I am using to record. It doesn't sound that good, so I turned it off for future videos showcasing the strats I've found, but during a run it's better to have than no audio But if you can record it some other way that is good too. Maybe there is an app that will allow this though?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
- How can i manage a Speed Run timer in Android ?
Haven't looked into this so I have no idea myself unfortunately. Maybe there is a way, otherwise it's possible we should allow runs without a timer, or at least least a simple timer in the video recording app, like you can see on my showcase videos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talabarbe View Post
- The touch control is really annoying at some points (Twinsen don't want to stop jumping ... Twinsen prefer read the information panel or talk with the pharmacist instead of hit the Yellow Grobo or recover the cherry syrup )
The controls are really annoying for sure! I loke though how there's often no risk falling in water though and such, so you can easily run to the edge and then jump. The movement has both many disadvantages and some advantages in terms of speedrunning in my opinion.
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Old 2016-05-31, 01:06
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Homeless Homeless is offline
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Further exploring the save-glitch, I have found another strat! This time for skipping Rebellion Island and the fight at the Hamalayi completely! It works fine on both Android & Enhanced PC version. This is a great alternative for the meca-jump which isn't possible on these versions:
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