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Fan Games A forum for discussion of any demos and fan games being made. Not for discussion of Modifications.

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  #26  
Old 2003-03-16, 19:45
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Firephoenix Firephoenix is offline
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That stupid program tries to make me believe it, whereas it's exactly the countrary
It must be a bug.......normal : -> Visual basic != C++
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  #27  
Old 2003-03-16, 19:46
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Actually, I'm the hair dryer salesman, and it's quite accurate (I think) ...
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  #28  
Old 2003-03-17, 02:23
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Glade you like it, do you want me to make an improved version?
(=more questions, purhapes extra charecters)
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  #29  
Old 2003-03-17, 02:26
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Yeah, why not?
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  #30  
Old 2003-03-17, 17:14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
Do you want me to make an improved version?
(=more questions, purhapes extra characters)
Of course, and there would be lots of other progs that'd be highly necessary : one that gives you your Twinsunian age depending on your food habits and your eye colour, an other to translate dutch insults into zeelichian, and at least 3 or 4 more, to try to send messages toward the green moon through Hubble, to draw automatically mecapinguins on your wallpaper, and to switch your screen to a 256 colors LBA palette, all those kinds of really vital things. And all that in bump-mapped windos interfaces of course, with animated buttons and background real audio sounds.

But wtf is that group HaLlUcInAtIoN !!!???
You spend your life making no-future appz, you havent made anything for Bu's temple for years, and you dare claiming the lead of the RMP ??? OMG if teams are supposed to imitate their leader, this explains that...
If you arent motivated at all to work properly for that project, at least admit it and let the choices be made by the motivated ones. I dont understand why I care of any way of your opinion when you behave so cynically I somehow have the feeling to pull a bowl, that's amazing O_o >_<

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  #31  
Old 2003-03-17, 18:08
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'kin 'ell, it's just a little program...
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  #32  
Old 2003-03-18, 11:05
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Quote:
Originally posted by Firephoenix

Of course, and there would be lots of other progs that'd be highly necessary : one that gives you your Twinsunian age depending on your food habits and your eye colour, an other to translate dutch insults into zeelichian, and at least 3 or 4 more, to try to send messages toward the green moon through Hubble, to draw automatically mecapinguins on your wallpaper, and to switch your screen to a 256 colors LBA palette, all those kinds of really vital things. And all that in bump-mapped windos interfaces of course, with animated buttons and background real audio sounds.

But wtf is that group HaLlUcInAtIoN !!!???
You spend your life making no-future appz, you havent made anything for Bu's temple for years, and you dare claiming the lead of the RMP ??? OMG if teams are supposed to imitate their leader, this explains that...
If you arent motivated at all to work properly for that project, at least admit it and let the choices be made by the motivated ones. I dont understand why I care of any way of your opinion when you behave so cynically I somehow have the feeling to pull a bowl, that's amazing O_o >_<


I currently spend the vaste majoirty of each day working on Max, its nice to take a break and do some "relaxing" VB sometime.

And as for no future apps, I might like to point out im STILL the only person here to have made ANY LBA games and finnished them. I finnished what I start.

I havnt done much for the RMP for awhile because im learning stuff that will help the RMP.
Sure, I could do charecter animation now, but given how I used to think I knew modeling, only to find about a hundred new things recently, Im waiting till the course gets to it.

I also havnt done much for the RMP, because I have a job now working for www.planetquest.cc, Lead Modeler, in fact.
As much as I love LBA, when your getting paid £50 a model your inclined to work on that more.

Thats not to say Im doing nothing for the RMP at the moment.
(Im working hard with Atresica on script refinments)
Its just that my production rate has slowed down for many reasons.





---
And, as mater of fact, a program to set up your screen to the LBA pallette would be quite cool
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  #33  
Old 2003-03-18, 11:07
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I would say something about what I think about the RMP, but I've decided to moderate my complains .
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  #34  
Old 2003-03-18, 16:37
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Morshem - no need to moderate yourself, be direct

DF -
Quote:
And as for no future apps, I might like to point out im STILL the only person here to have made ANY LBA games and finnished them. I finnished what I start.
But what's the point in making so little appz >_<
You play them one-two times and they are forgotten, it's sooo much more useful to take the challenge of making a real 3D movie. Concerning the RMP you're far far far of having finished what you started, we could even say that if we removed the other teamers' creations, you'd about be beginning it (after 1.7 years however...)

So you're waiting to know all about animation before beginning it ? We got the time to see it come...
But those lacks shouldnt have prevented you from making textures/objects/characters/grounds for the RMP. Cause I dunno if you know but we'd need lots of them ASAP. We got no main characters, no boned characters, a tiny part of the areas......

I've just learned about that planetquest stuff, it makes you one more excuse not to care about the RMP and it confirms my impression that I'm one of the 10-11 guys on the planet that are able to work without being paid for it.
And besides that of course you still find the time to make amounts of picture editions and games of course, I calll that a visible lack of ambition O_o

That refined script....I'm soon gonna register it on www.hoaxbuster.com as one of the most important hoaxes the world had ever known
Everyone gets justified by it, everyone had heard of it, but we surely wont have the hand on it before we were too old to even use properly a mouse. When I see the number of fanfics that appear everywhere on that forum I think that it's mainly a question of BAD WILL.

I dont have anything to do with your determination or all those kind of words, I need ACTS, actually you cant even speak of your "production rate" or whatever, and I want the RMP to be finished not in 3 or 4 humans lives, we got only one life, and when we'll have a family to feed it'd be kind of too late to make such a big project. If there is one life period when such things are possible it's RIGHT NOW, so it'd be more than time to repair the RMP production rate that atm leads us right in the wall (thanks btww to Kaderoboy for his work support and to Link for the attempt of tiling texture).
Next year I'll be enter one of the 4 hardest schools in France, I'll have less than 2 hours per week for my leisure, what will the RMP production rate become then ? Mfh that unconcerned attitude makes me tired, I can already see the RMP in the cemetary of the early-dead projects.
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  #35  
Old 2003-03-18, 16:39
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Quote:
Morshem - no need to moderate yourself, be direct
Someone said he doesn't have problems with me complaining!
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  #36  
Old 2003-03-18, 18:21
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Firephoenix ~ Check the number of people that have downloaded my games from MBN's game section.
I dont care they only play it once or twice, because theres hundreds who have done that. (or, at least, downloaded them).
My "Who Are You" Game has got another thread started for it, which I didnt have anything to do with, so it must be fairly popular.
(confusingly,the new thread and this one are called the same).

The time spent on these little games are pathetic.
Who Are You was made in under a day, LBA TAG in a few hours.
The only one that took some time was LBABall.
And learning the Ball Physics in my opioun was worth the time spent.
==
And I am taking up the challenge of making this movie, its not an OR sitution, its an AND sitution.
Im a very determained person, I was going to make this movie ON MY OWN, before I even had a forum here.
(EL and Jesse I think are witness's to this)

Since then however, Ive upgraded my standards as the team has expanded.

Quote:
But those lacks shouldnt have prevented you from making textures/objects/characters/grounds for the RMP. Cause I dunno if you know but we'd need lots of them ASAP. We got no main characters, no boned characters, a tiny part of the areas......
I have limited time you know
While learning something with one hand, its quite tricky to do something with another.

And we DONT need lots ASAP.
I have a HUGE, HUGE libury of textures.
We already have 99.999% of the objects. (if we have something we need but dont have, add it on the task list...I cant think of any un-done objects myself...allthough some could be improved).

Charecters I already explained im not doing till I know more


Grounds/Landscape is the only thing left I feel im skilled enough to get perfect.
And I am working on them in my spare time, together with many people who have done excelent landscapes.
(remember I said we should devide islands up into grids, with different people assigned to do each bit? I still think that would work)
oh, and incidently, we dont need 100% of all islands mapped out.
The script/storyboard/animatic will show us what we need and dont need.
(Citadale Island, is, of course, a must have 100% done)

Quote:
I've just learned about that planetquest stuff, it makes you one more excuse not to care about the RMP and it confirms my impression that I'm one of the 10-11 guys on the planet that are able to work without being paid for it.
Do you have to pay to fed and house yourself yet?
=========

Fp, you seem to forget Ive taken the biggest task of the LOT:
Animating.
Ive already showed how this task is very hard to split up, and besides, I want to do it myself.
But I want to do it right.
This film will be made in a lifetime, easily, but Im not going to do anything till im ready.
If I started charecter animating a few months ago, I would have started again today because I have learnt new techiques to make it better.
I dont want to start today if I know theres a better method I will learn in a few more months.
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  #37  
Old 2003-03-18, 18:29
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Oh looky, another complain about the RMP

So, whatcha gonna do? Fire us?

Okay, before you're going to do anything

Yes, there was a huge delay in the script. Yes... actually, I'm working at it right now, I can post a screenshot if you want to

ah well

Instead of this fighting, which, unlike the delay, CAN end the RMP
Let's just... I don't know, relax about the matter

If it would be bad will, it would be written like crap.

So well, tell you what, you just do what you are good at, I do what I'm good at
No worries.
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  #38  
Old 2003-03-18, 18:59
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You have limited time and however you find a lot for soon forgotten games and pictures.... I wouldnt care if you were able to do both little games and project work, what doesnt seem to be the case.

I dont wanna know how determined you are, if you dont give yourself means you wont be able to finish even a crappy movie.

The number of objects isnt that important compared to the huge number of the ones that are composing the scenes, that are a part of the ground. On the total scene modelling, we'rent at 6% of what we need, even if we only take grounds that are sure to be in the movie. There is no need to divide the landscapes, cause we're less than a few people working on them, and they're already prettily divided as game zones.
If in your spare time you''re working with several skilled people on the grounds, how come we never see the part of even only one ?

the animation isnt yet required but the MESHES are ! And you dont need any more technics to make good ones, do you ? Some surface tools and nurbs, some box modelling and you could quite easily make an excellent characters, no ? Then you could wait a lot to know well how to place bones, how to set the morphings, but you dont need all that to make the mesh


If you already dont have the time to make rather simple landscapes and stuff, I doubt a lot about animating 2 hours of movie
Animation technics cant stop evoluating, you''ll ALWAYS learn new better ones by waiting. Later on, 99% of the character movements will be automatically set by integrated tools. Supported polygon counts will be much higher, default effects will be far better. The time plays against us, a LIFETIME doesnt suit me, that project has to be made in a little bunch of years if we dont want it to be fully outdated when it's released (we're not gonna remake all the models each 5 years are we ?).

-------------

Atresica -
Quote:
Fire us
What's the point ? You already all look like outsiders of the project, quite unconcerned by the problems around it....

Everyone is ALWAYS working on the script "right now", and however it progresses at a slowest than slow rate........havent I the right, since all the progress of the RMP is bound to that script that is just begun, to stress ? I dunno how you consider the fanfics you write, but if you make so many so often, I dont see why the script couldnt acccelerate by keeping a proper quality......


/me just wants
-a visible progress : RESULTS
-a participation coming from more than the 3 or 4 about active members on the 62 the team contains
-a project for which we can expect a end before CENTURIES.

If it's too much sking, I dont see the point of continuing all that time waste
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  #39  
Old 2003-03-18, 19:08
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Back to topic, please! So, how about a new version?
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  #40  
Old 2003-03-19, 13:04
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  #41  
Old 2003-03-19, 13:54
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Quote:
You have limited time and however you find a lot for soon forgotten games and pictures.... I wouldnt care if you were able to do both little games and project work, what doesnt seem to be the case.
a) People enjoy them, so I make them.
Allthough...thinking about it, I could have made them more usefull by using them as rewards for people who work on the RMP most

b) Dont assume things, even if I did take a total break to make these games (which I didnt), then what the fuck is wrong with that?
Now you clearly dont have to pay for your living or accomdation, so you seem to have little idea of the real world.
I make the RMP because I ENJOY DOING IT, im not doing it for work, im doing it for Fun.
So, not mater how hard to try to bully me, its always going to remain that for me. Im not going to force myself, or anyone else, to do RMP work when I want to do something else.


Quote:
The number of objects isnt that important compared to the huge number of the ones that are composing the scenes, that are a part of the ground. On the total scene modelling, we'rent at 6% of what we need, even if we only take grounds that are sure to be in the movie. There is no need to divide the landscapes, cause we're less than a few people working on them, and they're already prettily divided as game zones.
I told you awhile ago we should use the games landscape devisions, and asign them simple grid referances.
(a1, b6 ect)
We can then use each one of these referances as a Task assignment on Bus temple.
Do we have any of these tasks? No.
Its far easier to say we need someone to do Section "B2 Proxima island", then it is to discribe the place needed.
Seeing as we have 100% of the maps now, and a lot of skilled modelers I dont see any reason why we cant have this system.

The problem is not the will, the problem is people are not aware of what needs to be done.
This would really help.

Quote:
the animation isnt yet required but the MESHES are ! And you dont need any more technics to make good ones, do you ? Some surface tools and nurbs, some box modelling and you could quite easily make an excellent characters, no ? Then you could wait a lot to know well how to place bones, how to set the morphings, but you dont need all that to make the mesh
You be supprised how much you need to know.
For instance, you should have extra mesh detail near the bone joints, to ensure seamless bending.
Also, you assuming im going to use simple meshs for everything.
I might choose another modeling techique, NURBS, NURMS, or something else.
Id particaly like ulta-smooth cloath movements, theres lovely plugins like simcloath for it, but you have to have very high res mesh's.
Patch techiques might be better.
OR maybe not.
I think I know it all now,yes, but im waiting till my course covers it.

Quote:
If you already dont have the time to make rather simple landscapes and stuff, I doubt a lot about animating 2 hours of movie
I do have time to do that, but I choose to spend it learning other stuff instead.
When the time comes to animating, Ill have the time.
Dont get me wrong though, it will take AGES to animate.
But, with a animatic (probably 90% made from Atresicas storyboards), everyone will be able to see how the film is forming continiously.....and we will be able to quickly identify what needs improvements.

Quote:
Animation technics cant stop evoluating, you''ll ALWAYS learn new better ones by waiting. Later on, 99% of the character movements will be automatically set by integrated tools. Supported polygon counts will be much higher, default effects will be far better. The time plays against us, a LIFETIME doesnt suit me, that project has to be made in a little bunch of years if we dont want it to be fully outdated when it's released (we're not gonna remake all the models each 5 years are we ?).
Aree...yes...if in dought with your argument take the most stupidly extream view and pretend it applies to what the other guy said
Everything will always improve, sure, but there is a limit to what you can learn in one bit of software.
If I started modeling charecters months ago, I would have started again today.....but overall I would finnish the movie quicker thanks to the techiques Ive now learnt.

Its sometimes worth waiting for the fast train to arrive

Next year Im doing charecter animation on my course (well, last months of this year).
Thats a long time yes, but im 99.9% sure that by waiting will be benfial.
I can make charecters at pretty dam high quality now, I could probably knock up an decent Twinsen in a few days, in fact.
But why should I risk wasting that time now? Why not wait till just before its needed....when I can make it better, and probably faster.

In the meantime, there is plenty to do.
I hope to have the animatic completely done before animating, so thats my main goal now.
(Im currently learning software for animatics on my course)
====
Incidently, I think Bu's temple needs a storyboard system.
When we come to do a "proper" storyboard, perhapes a array of images/comments would be best.
Each image is a single frame of the storyboard, and it should have text with it.
(Scene details, perhapes a quote from the script...and most importantly the transition to the next frame).

Sticking a huge Jpeg on each page would be quite messy when the storyboard comes to many pages.

You dont have to make this now, but just start thinking about the best way to do it.
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  #42  
Old 2003-03-19, 18:05
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Quote:
I could have made them more usefull by using them as rewards for people who work on the RMP most
You dont seem to feel that it wouldnt have been AT ALL a stupid choice.


When you begin something, you gotta finish it, so despite all the little funs calling all around, you should slightly force yourself to make the stuff go forward.
I'd enjoy it a lot if there was a real teamwork, if the pprojject progressed even slowly, but there it's more a frustration than anything else.

Quote:
The problem is not the will, the problem is people are not aware of what needs to be done.
I dont think I take a risk by saying "NOT AT ALL" !
People are 100% informed of what has to be done, I made newsletters, full threads with ideas of things to do, with suggestions, a webppage to share optimally the work, others to show precisely all what has been done yet, members have under the eyes ALL the maps of the game, I'm here to give ideas, comments and suggestions if needed........I couldnt even imagine a better organization to help people acting, and however about no one produces. You could set a number for each particle of Twinsun, it wouldnt change anything and submitting a "PI library inside" task is imho FAR easier than crawling for its flocking immatriculation number in the division maps. It's rather a full demotivation than anything else that is cause of all that.


I used "mesh" for ALL the modelling technics, cause each time the models have to be turned to mesh to be rendered by the engine of 3dsmax.
imo waiting for the 2-3 little thing you could learn in your course isnt worth the huge waste of time we'll have had until then.
Well if you hope to save some minutes by improving your knowledges, ok, but maybe you could make some necessary stufffs meanwhile (grounds....), maybe the Example would help others to act.


So it seems you got no way to make the project to accelerate, only excuses for its low speed... it'd have been so kewl to release a movie made 100% by young fans, later on we'll ALL need money, and the movie wont have anything special anymore ( that's not an extream view, do you think our currrent models will still be worth in a bunch of years ? What we do now in 1 hour will be done in 30 mn with new tools, that's a pure waste of energy to let the time go)...

BTW I dont even know if you're aware it exists on Bu's temple, but for my LBA Final Battle storyboard I used an optimal array that allowed comments and stuff for each image...and I could quite easily set a system to generate such arrays automatically by php, but seen the AMOUNT of scripts and storyboards I get each week, it's atm not worth AT ALL.
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  #43  
Old 2003-03-19, 20:37
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Quote:
People are 100% informed of what has to be done, I made newsletters, full threads with ideas of things to do, with suggestions, a webppage to share optimally the work, others to show precisely all what has been done yet, members have under the eyes ALL the maps of the game, I'm here to give ideas, comments and suggestions if needed........I couldnt even imagine a better organization to help people acting, and however about no one produces. You could set a number for each particle of Twinsun, it wouldnt change anything and submitting a "PI library inside" task is imho FAR easier than crawling for its flocking immatriculation number in the division maps. It's rather a full demotivation than anything else that is cause of all that.
You still dont get the point of the grid system?
Gezzz...which is easier.
To say Promixa island~B2, or to try to dsicribe it.
Some locations are easy to discribe it words, but not all.
Why would it be so hard to add simple letter/number combos to the screenshot maps?

Then, we can have a nice organised task list with all the sections that need to be done, and tick them off as they are done.
We already have quite a few decent landscapes from bits of ciradale Island, allthough im not sure that any are uploaded.

Im well aware of all you have done...yet still some people hardly do anything...and somehow a few dont know what the RMP is....

Its a physological thing, if someone can see a nice clear list of whats done/ whats needed it motivates them better.
Thats exactly how we got all those objects made, and achievement the modelers should be proud of.
Having a screenshot map is not the same as having a "TO DO Section b4: Task Avaible" or such.
They then refer to the map as they are modeling.

Quote:
I used "mesh" for ALL the modelling technics, cause each time the models have to be turned to mesh to be rendered by the engine of 3dsmax.
You should try to branch out your techiques then.
Expriment with the Point Surface tools a bit.
IMO its not as easy or as flexible as Box Modeling/Mesh Smooth.
But the shape is more mathmatical, and thus smoother.

And I dont just learn "2-3" "little" things.
Some of the things can make a huge difference.

Quote:
Well if you hope to save some minutes by improving your knowledges, ok, but maybe you could make some necessary stufffs meanwhile (grounds....), maybe the Example would help others to act
Well, I'll finnish off and publish the area around Twinsens house.
Its 99.99% finnished already,
I just hope to add in some detail on the fences and stuff.
(I was trying to figure out the best way of doing that plant thats on some of them).

Quote:
So it seems you got no way to make the project to accelerate,
* Task list of Locations needed to be modeled.
* Im writting an artical for the MBN magazine thingy that hopefully will encourage people a slightly amount

Appart from that no, I dont have any more ideas.
oh, unless you want to use stupid little games as rewards.....

Quote:
that's not an extream view, do you think our currrent models will still be worth in a bunch of years ? What we do now in 1 hour will be done in 30 mn with new tools, that's a pure waste of energy to let the time go
Im not sure actualy.
Texturing will surely get much easier, but modeling cant really get too much easier.
I mean, its more to do with the skill of the artist then the tools now.
Its like POSER and BRYCE.
They can make people/landscapes very quickly and easily....but your not really truely making it yourself anymore....your adjusting whats already done.
So, a landscape made in 3DSMax, or a person, would normaly look much more special, more unique....then any "easy" method of doing it.
Interface improvements...sure...but I think everything else is like a curve and we have already reached to nearly the peak.
To make stuff easier now, normaly means a lose in precision or customisation.
(and, if you learn the hard way, you'll find the easy way extra-extra easy )

Quote:
BTW I dont even know if you're aware it exists on Bu's temple, but for my LBA Final Battle storyboard I used an optimal array that allowed comments and stuff for each image...and I could quite easily set a system to generate such arrays automatically by php, but seen the AMOUNT of scripts and storyboards I get each week, it's atm not worth AT ALL.
Trust me, we will need it.

Purhapes after the next script section comes out, Ive asked Atresica to make the first storyboard match the introduction combined script more closely.
It would be nice if we could put that into such a system.
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Old 2003-03-19, 22:05
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Hum I'm digging under my head, but I really dont see the point of a numerotation of maps......I even see inconvenients.
-> what does Proxima~B2 evocates for you ? Nothing. People wont have any clue on what is actually in progress/done/to do, they'll only waste time looking for what numbers correspond to what area. So we'll have too let the entire area name if we dont want to complicate the system. And after that, do you think an area name could be too fuzzy to be properly understood ?
Well if you tell me Hamalayi landing zone, Tipett sewers main area or Fortress cells, I really get it immediately....and for the rare maps that havent really special features, I've already given them proper names with numbers if needed. So nope imo adding sense-empty letters and numbers to the map names will only add confusion.

But I'm not against a list of the areas, with free/WIP/done, even if I know it wont motivate people and it'll only increase my depression, in front of the amount of free huge tasks that'll be in it. For what's about the clear list, I think my top thread was already quite explicit and clear, and however...

Branch out my technics ? Hey, but I just spoke of the meshes in the general way : the most mathematical models you make, nurbs, metaballs and stuff, are also always turned by the 3D engine into meshes before being rendered.
I already make rather evoluated meshes with mathematical technics (all my bathroom objects are in cv and point nurbs surfaces, I use some metaballs...), even if I havent a lot of experience in that area.


*List of locations needed will be one more shot in the water, it's one of the last things we can find before the organisation were really perfect, but ok I can try (seen what we could lose....).
*/me isnt sure that we still got people to infoorm about the RMP, most of the meembers should know it now....but it's still worth trying.


Hum imho the basic objects will be done about the same way in the future, but there will be lots of new technics found to obtain rather evoluated models, as we've recently had excellent poly modelling tools in 3dsmax5 and as we got the Surface Tools before, to help us doing excellent faces quite easily. We'll surely each a kind of limit, but atm we surely have lots of simplification tools to discover, for characters mainly (and they wont prevent us from customizing al that then with a lowwer level edition).
Maybe non-euclidian 3D engines will appear, who knows....

Quote:
Trust me, we will need it.
But we already got it ? It wont change anything for the viewer if I set a php system, it'll be displayed the same way as my storyboard is displayed now, it's just that it could make my linking work slightly faster. But it depends on the storyboard creation rate : if ii's to get a storyboard every month or so, it's faster to display it manually (with a simple php array) than to create a php script not only able to generate an images array automatically (that's a rather quick coding - I could do it in realtime in 10 mn) but also to create an user interface to put the corresponding comments in the databases (that'd already be a harder system, that would take much more time than typing fully 10 storyboards's comments manually). So I gotta see wether it's actually worth coding a system that may be under-used compared to the time spent coding it, for the same result.

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Old 2003-03-21, 04:52
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FP ~ How would you discribe this area:
[IMG]
http://firephoenix.free.fr/Files/Xvi...ion_site_1.jpg
[/IMG]
Or this area:
[IMG]
http://firephoenix.free.fr/Files/Xvi...st_assault.jpg
[/IMG]

?
With a grid system each one can be discribed in just a few letters.
Having to discibe these areas verbaly is much harder.
Maybe you have snappy names for all the sections of the game, but I sure as hell dont.
----
It wont add confusion at all.
Numbers for Vertical, Letters for Horrizontal.
Just like Chess,or Battle Ships, or most other simple grid systems.
===
Quote:
But I'm not against a list of the areas, with free/WIP/done, even if I know it wont motivate people and it'll only increase my depression, in front of the amount of free huge tasks that'll be in it. For what's about the clear list, I think my top thread was already quite explicit and clear, and however...
Clear yes, but read...probably not.

Im just looking for things that made people motivated to do all those models.
There was a huge surge of activity, with many models being done twice or three times.
What caused that?
Im not sure, but the task list seemed to contribute too it.
===

Quote:
But we already got it ? It wont change anything for the viewer if I set a php system, it'll be displayed the same way as my storyboard is displayed now, it's just that it could make my linking work slightly faster. But it depends on the storyboard creation rate : if ii's to get a storyboard every month or so, it's faster to display it manually (with a simple php array) than to create a php script not only able to generate an images array automatically (that's a rather quick coding - I could do it in realtime in 10 mn) but also to create an user interface to put the corresponding comments in the databases (that'd already be a harder system, that would take much more time than typing fully 10 storyboards's comments manually). So I gotta see wether it's actually worth coding a system that may be under-used compared to the time spent coding it, for the same result.
This is how it is at the moment:
http://firephoenix.free.fr/scripts-s....php3?link=The beginning
This is a complete mess.
The script and the storyboard bundeled together, with no organsation to how they interrelate to echover.

Your battle scene is better, but its still nothing more then a table. Useless when the storyboard gets bigger.

We need an organised Database, capable of storying an array of pictures with text under them. (possibly muitiple fields of text, but not essiental)
When the script/storyboard is being worked on/critsised by the team, we will need the ability to look up sections of it.
With a few pages this is easy, but when its finnished it will be a Nightmare.
Unless we have it organised.
So we can look up,

"5 - Meeting with the Astronomer" ,storyboard frames 25.

Then have frame 25 displayed, with purhapes the previous few frames and the next few frames around it.
Text under it will discribe the features, and possible a quote from the script.
(at the very least an index'd line number relating to the script)

You see how this system, or something like it, is esiental ?
We will be dealing with thousands of images when this is finnished.

Quote:
Maybe non-euclidian 3D engines will appear, who knows....
There are a few, in universitys and such. (http://new.math.uiuc.edu/im2001/eightfoldway ,
Theres even a few 4 and 5 demension "3D engines".
(Check out KPT:Fract4D, it creates 4D fractuals and lets you take a cross section of it)
Computers are able to easily manipulate spacial concepts that are brains cant visualise at all.

oh, and if you like Unreal and non-flat space this is cool:
http://www.geocities.com/terry_stewart/unreal.html

And for people that havnt a clue:
http://cs.unm.edu/~joel/NonEuclid/
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  #46  
Old 2003-03-21, 16:53
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I would simply descibe those areas by the name I gave them. That way users would immediately locate them in the world map, and the end number would give them the location from the down to the top of the hamalayi chain by example, if necessary - they'll just have to check the maps database to be sure of the concerned map. And anyway, those simple maps wont have to be done independantely, it'd be useles, they'll have to be done together with the other maps that are bound to them (it'll be 1 person that'll make the hamalayi corrridor, ellse we will never be able to merge them properly, to rescale them and stufff, so we'll simply put a task like "hamalayi attack corridor" or stuff, that'll group all those litttle common grounds.
If you just put arbitrary numbers on the maps (twinsen is round, you cant easily list maps as in a chess game), you wont be able to view properly the work cause those signs wont evocate anything in your mind, you couldnt have a more confusing array, all what count is the user to be able to immediately view which parts of Twinsun are done and (overall) which arent.


I just see activity boosts as skilled people discovering the project, working a litttle and then dropping it cause it's not quick enough to make.


Hum that script is old and couldnt be put in array (too messy image sizes). New storyboards wont be like that imo.

But I dont know how my storyboard display could be improved. If I wanna change it, no problems, I just edit the html code to add, remove, change images in it. I can put all the comments I want under images ect....

But if I switch to a database system, it'll be much harder : to change comments or add images I'll spend times crawling in phpmyadmin, thousands images means thousands entries so I'll be forced to multiply the number of tables or to have thousands entries in the same table, in that case I'll be forced to create php forms to be able to handle all that, and they'll will be long and hard to do, and limited in their fonctions...

Furthermore if I have to change things, add images, I'll have to alter both tables and ftp datas, and their could be lots of problems due to that synchronisation needed between both.

Nope I know what I'm gonna do : a purely ftp-oriented php script, that'll browse folders to display one by one the images and the txt file that goes with each, sorted by name. That way to change things I'll just have too upload the new images/text files, and the script will automatically change the display without asking databases. The only thing is that if you want to add an image between Battle_214.jpg and Battle_215.jpg, you'll have to add something like Battle_2145.jpg (to be sorted in the right order)), and the php will have too be able to detect such differently named images, but for that I'll just improve my ftp browsing knowledges (whereas if the table had to contain the name of all the images.....no hope.)

It's the best to do imo, each storyboard will be put in a folder (that way iit'll be much easier to browse) and each link of Bu's temple will contain strings saying what folder has to be shown.


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Old 2003-03-21, 18:51
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Quote:
. And anyway, those simple maps wont have to be done independantely, it'd be useles, they'll have to be done together with the other maps that are bound to them (it'll be 1 person that'll make the hamalayi corrridor, ellse we will never be able to merge them properly, to rescale them and stufff, so we'll simply put a task like "hamalayi attack corridor" or stuff, that'll group all those litttle common grounds.
In an ideal world that would be better, but thats not how its being done so far.
Many people on this forum have made different sections for Citadale island, that I dont want to go to waste.
Yes, merging correctly would be hard, but you got to remember, we are making a film, not a game.
Because of that we can ensure there is a smooth blend only in the camera shots that matter.
As long as the theres no harsh line in the ground, it wont be noticeable.
In fact, a few camera shots an be done with just the spacific area loaded, and not the surrounding areas.
This would speed up animation and rendering time.
The rest should be linked in a huge scene mainly by X-refs.

Im still worried about polygon count, Im already have trouble editing that citadale island scene


Quote:
and the end number would give them the location from the down to the top of the hamalayi chain by example, if necessary - they'll just have to check the maps database to be sure of the concerned map
Yes...and what if the map arrangment is 2D?
You then need a letter/number combo.


Quote:
If you just put arbitrary numbers on the maps (twinsen is round, you cant easily list maps as in a chess game
wtf...do you understand what the hell im saying here??
Im not talking about mapping the planet!
Just each island having its own grid based on the loaded areas.

So you have a format like:
IslandName_X_Y

With X and Y being, say, grid referances numbered from the lower left corner.


Quote:
Hum that script is old and couldnt be put in array (too messy image sizes). New storyboards wont be like that imo.
I agree with that, thats why I said you didnt have to make it yet, but it was something for future storyboards.

Quote:
Nope I know what I'm gonna do : a purely ftp-oriented php script, that'll browse folders to display one by one the images and the txt file that goes with each, sorted by name. That way to change things I'll just have too upload the new images/text files, and the script will automatically change the display without asking databases. The only thing is that if you want to add an image between Battle_214.jpg and Battle_215.jpg, you'll have to add something like Battle_2145.jpg (to be sorted in the right order)), and the php will have too be able to detect such differently named images, but for that I'll just improve my ftp browsing knowledges (whereas if the table had to contain the name of all the images.....no hope.)
Yes, that sounds good.
Im not concerned with the method used, as I said, pick the best.
Its just the result we need
It would be really helpfull to have the frames "around" a number displayed if someone looks up a spacific number.
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  #48  
Old 2003-03-22, 12:11
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Making the Citadel island in different maps is normal, it's a big and complex scene, with lots of objects, but the ground iitself is rather flat, with square buildings, so there wont be too many troubles to hide the joints.
Whereas for the hamalayi corridoor, it'd be a suicide to separate the work : it only consists of very complex snow surfaces and weird cliffs, each modeler will have his own technic to make those forms (nurbs, different noises, fractal tools...), there wouldnt be any homogeneity if we had to try to merge the differentt forms that'll be given to the ground. And it isnt impossible for a modeler that has already made lenghts of cliff and snow surface to extend them with the same technic in order to fill the full corridor (it'll be longer for him, but finally it'll be quickier than if each one had to find his way to make those weird grounds).

Hum the edition of outside scenes will surely need lots of xrefs and hidding options....I can only advise you, iid ppossible, to acquire a more powerful CPU (or an OpenGL 3D card), the prices of those cant help decreasing.


Hum I dont know if I understand well but what is sure is that donnt see at alll the point of that naming convention. In what way could grid references help in any way the user to locate the mapp ???? There wont be a map for each reference (only oa few places of each island is available), and it'll be very approximatelly given (you dont know exactly the location of places on the island) and wont give you any clue on what map is exactly concerned (If you tell me Principal-C2, I'll think to Funfrock fortress, the harbour or the south shore....).
Whereas 99% of the maps have a very particular element on them (the other ones will simply be precised with the number I gave them on Bu's temple), if you tell me Principal-library-outside or Proxima-south--runic-stone I'll immediately view the place and imagine its modeling difficulty, its importance in the story and all that. I'm not willing to spend time making a maps listing that'll be an useless big mess of numbers and letters, I'm a pragmatic.
There is nothing mathematic we can do with those references, so they're 100% UsElEsS.

////////EDIT/////////

M'kay, my directory listing/selection/sorting script works on local server (if I gotta use remote ftps it'll be very hard), I should be able to set such a system properly.
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Old 2003-03-22, 15:50
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[QUOTE]Making the Citadel island in different maps is normal, it's a big and complex scene, with lots of objects, but the ground iitself is rather flat, with square buildings, so there wont be too many troubles to hide the joints.
Whereas for the hamalayi corridoor, it'd be a suicide to separate the work : it only consists of very complex snow surfaces and weird cliffs, each modeler will have his own technic to make those forms (nurbs, different noises, fractal tools...), there wouldnt be any homogeneity if we had to try to merge the differentt forms that'll be given to the ground. And it isnt impossible for a modeler that has already made lenghts of cliff and snow surface to extend them with the same technic in order to fill the full corridor (it'll be longer for him, but finally it'll be quickier than if each one had to find his way to make those weird grounds). QUOTE]

Absolutely.
Im not saying they all should be devivded, only we should have the ability too, so each artist can decide for himself.


Quote:
Hum I dont know if I understand well but what is sure is that donnt see at alll the point of that naming convention. In what way could grid references help in any way the user to locate the mapp ???? There wont be a map for each reference (only oa few places of each island is available), and it'll be very approximatelly given (you dont know exactly the location of places on the island) and wont give you any clue on what map is exactly concerned (If you tell me Principal-C2, I'll think to Funfrock fortress, the harbour or the south shore....).
Whereas 99% of the maps have a very particular element on them (the other ones will simply be precised with the number I gave them on Bu's temple), if you tell me Principal-library-outside or Proxima-south--runic-stone I'll immediately view the place and imagine its modeling difficulty, its importance in the story and all that. I'm not willing to spend time making a maps listing that'll be an useless big mess of numbers and letters, I'm a pragmatic.
There is nothing mathematic we can do with those references, so they're 100% UsElEsS.
Its nothing to do with locating maps, its simple easy for communication and listing.
Look, imagine all the areas of proxima island.
That island, like the citadale, would be good to break up into sections no?
So, isnt it far more organised just to have:
Proxima_A1
Proxima_B1
Proxima_A2
Proxima_B2
ect ect.
Then too describe every single patch of area verbly each time?
As I said before, not all areas have asy landmarks.
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Old 2003-03-22, 19:41
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So to save the writting of 10 letters, you'll each time force the receiver to identify on Bu's temple the map you're talking about (and btw YOU'll also have to check the ghrid before talking about that place)) ? Those names will only be used to speak of the work to do and done, so if people cant immediately understand what you're talking about, it's fully pointless.
If it's just a question of organisation, then I can just use : Twinsun1, Twinsun2, Twinsun3.... to identify the maps, it's much more "clean" and indeed there are places that are difficult to locate in terms of island (is the construction site a part of the Fortress island or of the north island ?...).
Nope really if you have to use the island name to givve the listener a clue about what you're talking about, then it's logical to precise your thought by an explicit name that clears all.

Else if you reallly want to have fun wth that, make that grid (that'll be weird though, seen that many locations oon the island arent visible for Twinsen), I'll add those useless refereances too the listing, and you'll have fun telling people to make the D5 or B2 map (but myself I will only take care of message that dont ask me to search in a grid to understand)
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