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  #26  
Old 2007-07-16, 22:08
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ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Well, this is why I said it dosnt mater what you call it.

Because, you can view it very much as taking away something from someone....or not.
It all depends on semantics and definitions.

Think of it this way;

If I make something digitaly for 10 people. 10 people pay me, and that gives me money to make the next.

However, if one of them pays me, copys it, and gives it to the other 9, then I dont have any money, and cant make any more.

Nothing has been stolen physically,at not one point has anything been "taken"
Yet the effect is identical.
I have lost out, others have gained.

So I see little point arguing over what its called.
I don't think I explained myself well enough. I'll try again

When you say "the effect is the same", there are important things you're not taking into consideration.

When you say that it's the same effect you probably mean:
I make something, I own it, I deserve to get reward. I don't deserve any less reward for my work because my product is not physical.

That seems all good and right, in theory.

But now that we want to put this nice idea into practice, we have to take more things into consideration...
1. Are people ready to treat non-physical property the same way they treat physical property?
2. Should people? What would be the consequences?
3. Would it be good for people as whole, if copyright violators would be treated the same respect as thieves?

...you get what I mean now? I can probably go on more about it if not...
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  #27  
Old 2007-07-16, 23:23
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Jasiek Jasiek is offline
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That's a discussion that can't be won by "logics", why? Because these, people, who do all those wonderful things we download for "free", have the right to acknowledgment and a reward for what they are doing.

We have come to treat the Internet as an enclave for selfless people, who will create just for the joy of doing something, someone else will look at and enjoy. Furthermore, we wish that the people that share the Internet were more humble, and not ones who won't even wiggle a finger if there's no money involved.

I know and observe more and more bands who put all their pieces on their websites free to download, and they still make a very good profit from concerts, because people treat humbler artists with more respect, as people on their own level and not some idealized crappy pop-star.

You know, in my opinion a humble artist, that didn't let the money to go into his head is worth buying his cd's, paying for his concerts. Someone who's got a stiff upper lip, thinks he's some kind of an idol isn't worth a broken dime.

Recently I was in a sort of a cafe, which served all kinds of exotic tea, wich isn't cheap, but they left the the amount of money you'll pay them in your hands, they just bring you the tea, and then when you're finished you go and throw as much money as you think it was worth. They're making a living out of it - and it's a very good idea, that respects the customer.
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  #28  
Old 2007-07-16, 23:35
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You can't separate terms of "right" and "wrong" from feasibility.

Idealism is nice, but it's worthless if reality simply won't let it come true.

Words like "deserve" and "have right to", for example, are worthless here. They belong to another discussion.

It doesn't matter what I think about who deserves what. I'm trying to talk in a higher level, not personal.

There is something that separates Movable from Spreadable. Pretending this something isn't there isn't going to help us move forward.
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  #29  
Old 2007-07-17, 13:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
You can't separate terms of "right" and "wrong" from feasibility.

Idealism is nice, but it's worthless if reality simply won't let it come true.

Words like "deserve" and "have right to", for example, are worthless here. They belong to another discussion.

It doesn't matter what I think about who deserves what. I'm trying to talk in a higher level, not personal.

There is something that separates Movable from Spreadable. Pretending this something isn't there isn't going to help us move forward.
I don't get it... can't see the relevance to what I wrote .

What I'm saying is that the internet is not a place for everyday life financial conduct, and that artists with a healthy dose of humility, who create art out of passion, and not becouse of a sheer craving for money are more worthy of being given the money.

Look at a street performer for instance, he plays on the street for everyone to see and hear, now if you pay him for his art, and how much is up to you. Now if the donation amount is up to the viewer, the art gets of higher and higher quality, because people respect humble artists like that, and he has to try harder to please the audience.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2007-07-17 at 15:17.
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  #30  
Old 2007-07-17, 15:16
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Ahh, k.
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  #31  
Old 2007-07-17, 15:32
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Anyway, the internet is not only an advertising medium, it is in fact a living "world", so every art placed in it is an equivalent to street permormance - and that's the way it should stay, with people exchanging the content, just like you can phone your friend and tell him to come to this certain street and look at this guy play, or paint something on the sidewalk etc. A street painting stays there, for everyone to see, but the artist gets money while the process of creation lasts. Art is not a commodity to barter with, but the effort, while it's being performed live, should be rewarded.

Now the whole "pirate issue" would be long gone, if it weren't for stuck up "artists" who don't understand the principle. Bands who post a lot of their music on their sites still get a lof of money from concerts and various merchandise, AND they get more respect for not being stuck up divas. Art is egalitarian, it is not a commodity to barter with, it is a property of the whole society. If we would legalize free exchange of all art in the internet, and place a tax on the providers for a fund to help starting artists the whole "issue" would be long gone.

Either way artists always get more money from concerts, live performance and sold merchandise then from albums themselves.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2007-07-17 at 15:39.
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  #32  
Old 2007-07-17, 17:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
Either way artists always get more money from concerts, live performance and sold merchandise then from albums themselves.
False. Well, not completely true anyway.
It completely depends on their contract and the number of gigs. There are a lot of independent record labels that do pay more than 5%-10%. There are also much better digital distribution deals.
magnatune is an example.
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  #33  
Old 2007-07-17, 21:06
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Isn't magnatune for artists giving out their music for free? Since I just click on the artist in Amarok and then I get the music downloaded instantly...
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  #34  
Old 2007-07-17, 22:46
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You can read, can't you?

magnatune is not about giving music away for free, for private use the music is gratis, but you can donate money and get access to better quality recordings (instead of 128kbps mp3s). You can also by a CD if you want. For commercial use you'll have to license the music.

anyway, read the "information" pages of magnatune (or the wikipedia page).
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  #35  
Old 2007-07-17, 23:16
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Just because I can read I don't read everything -.-

Not to mention I only used Kubuntu for 3-4 sessions...
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  #36  
Old 2007-07-17, 23:28
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read less fiction, more fact
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  #37  
Old 2007-07-17, 23:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Muerte View Post
read less fiction, more fact
I resent that.
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  #38  
Old 2007-07-18, 00:30
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why? you approve of lbawinons' reading list?
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  #39  
Old 2007-07-18, 00:44
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I didn't really read the last few posts, but Fiction > Facts.
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  #40  
Old 2007-07-18, 00:57
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It was a purely informational inquiry, in which case it's really better to stick with facts, seriously.
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  #41  
Old 2007-07-18, 09:54
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I love this I must say, this is right in a way...
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