Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > Off topic

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Off topic General off-topic chat goes in here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #51  
Old 2009-06-24, 11:10
Jasiek's Avatar
Jasiek Jasiek is offline
Do the evolution.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: You forgot Poland.
Posts: 7,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
If you're trying to attract patronage - i.e. get people to buy your product - you're trying to convince them that your product is worth buying.

I'm wondering what exactly you think advertising should be, if it's not trying to convince people to buy your product.
Actually, you wrote the answer in your post. "Convincing people that the product is worth buying", not that they'll murder a kitten if you don't buy it...

What does that kind of an advertisement say about the product? Nothing. It doesn't outline it's features or anything of the sort. So what does that mean to the potential consumer? "If they're afraid to talk about any of it's features in comparison to other similar products, it must be crap". Technically speaking, what microsoft is doing is not advertising, because the quality and the features of the product should be the advertisement.
__________________
Little Script Adventure
Join the Little Script Adventure team
Download Little Script Adventure
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 2009-06-24, 12:41
Mouserz's Avatar
Mouserz Mouserz is offline
>:C
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Estonia
Posts: 696
Send a message via AIM to Mouserz Send a message via MSN to Mouserz Send a message via Yahoo to Mouserz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Highlighting the bad points of company's is -always- good.

And saying "they all do it" is never an argument.
Especially when its to do with degrees of badness, and I've rarely seen other company's stoop this low.
It is if its to do with business. If you don't do it dirty you get walked over by other companies who don't care. Also false advertising is still done by most companies.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 2009-06-24, 12:51
LethalSwordsMan's Avatar
LethalSwordsMan LethalSwordsMan is offline
Polish Pride
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia, Vic
Posts: 657
I'll tell you whats funny about all this? All these complaints, although totally rightfully aimed and deserved, shouldn't be complaints at all. The fact Microsoft is going to such low levels, proves they're well on the way to losing the power they have over the PC world. It's a good sign .

It's not the complaining that will make the difference, its the knowledge that its complete crap being spread to the world that will. As long as people are ignorant, Microsoft can manipulate and mindrape anybody they want to, but as soon as the world has a clue, that power of manipulation stops and they have nothing left to attack with. I mean its not like they're actually going to come out with better software

Powerful companies only keep their power if they rule over everything, they can't possibly actually compete with everything else skill-wise, so they do what they can, monopolise the market.

And CF, I really deeply mean no offence to your comment about "its wrong, just because it happens doesn't mean it should happen". To that I say, "No shit!", but the world doesn't work that way. Life is not all pixies and rainbows, as much as we'd all love it to be, but I'm not saying at the same time that we should just drop dead and accept it. Saying "Thats wrong!" is not going to accomplish anything any faster than saying "Please stop" is going to get america to get out of iraq, meant as a metaphor, don't go off-topic now peepz .

People with power pry on ignorance. The best way to counter it, is to either play on their ignorance as well, or tell them how shit works. Fact is most people don't care enough, which is why we have such hordes going for things like microsoft and EA, "Oooh! Big name! Let's buy it!"

I predict either a massive improvement in Microsoft products, or the more likely flunk out of Microsoft over the next 5-10 years. More and more people are already starting to use other things in macs, ubuntu, all the better internet browsers, I'd just sit back and watch the show .
__________________
Falling back to the way,
things were before we had a dream,
Broken inside,
not knowing when to laugh or cry,
Break the surface,
and tell me what you really see,
When did we stop believing?
When did we say goodbye?
_______________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 2009-06-24, 13:19
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
About the "no shit!" part, I agree, I only said that to refresh some people who forgot it.

I think now is a perfect time for this good old picture:

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2009-06-24 at 14:18. Reason: fixed picture
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 2009-06-24, 13:26
LethalSwordsMan's Avatar
LethalSwordsMan LethalSwordsMan is offline
Polish Pride
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia, Vic
Posts: 657
Don't tell me they actually used that as an advertisement

If it was like DF said about killing kittens, I'd feel much better. Nobody cares about the kittens
__________________
Falling back to the way,
things were before we had a dream,
Broken inside,
not knowing when to laugh or cry,
Break the surface,
and tell me what you really see,
When did we stop believing?
When did we say goodbye?
_______________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 2009-06-24, 13:31
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouserz View Post
It is if its to do with business. If you don't do it dirty you get walked over by other companies who don't care. Also false advertising is still done by most companies.
I use dozens...nah...thousands of products from companys every day, none of which to my knowledge has been this deceitful about their competition.

Most companys probably do have exaggerated claims etc, but no where near this bad. .
Its not black and white, its greyscale.
But Microsoft seems to be at the blackest end of that scale at the moment.

If you know other examples this bad, by all means; Name them and shame them.
There probably is other company's equally bad.

But Microsoft does NOT get a free pass on this merely out of the generic idea ""they all do it"".

Microsoft is publishing bullshit, and attention should be drawn to that fact.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 2009-06-24, 13:34
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalSwordsMan View Post
Don't tell me they actually used that as an advertisement
Nah it's from Uncyclopedia, but the fact you thought it might be real is a warning beacon
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 2009-06-24, 14:32
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
About the "no shit!" part, I agree, I only said that to refresh some people who forgot it.

I think now is a perfect time for this good old picture:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Nah it's from Uncyclopedia, but the fact you thought it might be real is a warning beacon
Or that people are ridiculously over-the-top in their love of hating Microsoft.

Did you really think a company would use an ad like that?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 2009-06-24, 14:36
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
Actually, you wrote the answer in your post. "Convincing people that the product is worth buying", not that they'll murder a kitten if you don't buy it...

What does that kind of an advertisement say about the product? Nothing. It doesn't outline it's features or anything of the sort. So what does that mean to the potential consumer? "If they're afraid to talk about any of it's features in comparison to other similar products, it must be crap". Technically speaking, what microsoft is doing is not advertising, because the quality and the features of the product should be the advertisement.
And again, I wasn't disputing the fact that the "ad" in question was borderline false advertising. I'm just saying that advertisements are meant to secure patronage. I don't think anyone is arguing that consumers shouldn't talk about companies, or their problems. If not, we wouldn't check review sites, CNet, etc. to get information and opinions.

That being said, in many of these cases I go back to the "evil corporation doing evil corporationy things" argument. I don't agree with everything Microsoft does, far from it. Or Sony. Or even the mighty Apple, which people vehemently defend whenever they are criticized in a discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 2009-06-24, 15:08
Jasiek's Avatar
Jasiek Jasiek is offline
Do the evolution.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: You forgot Poland.
Posts: 7,723
I didn't meant it's false advertising - lying about the products features. What I meant is that the one that says "click and we'll feed babies" is not even false advertising. What I meant is that that kind of an "ad" is actually an "anti-ad", because it clearly shows that the product of this company has nothing, not even a single feature (like the mac + envelope thing) they'd want to brag about.

It's like saying "Buy our product! You need it! Because... ninjas! And dinosaurs! Look over there! A man in a monkey suit!" and hoping someone will do it...
__________________
Little Script Adventure
Join the Little Script Adventure team
Download Little Script Adventure
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 2009-06-24, 15:26
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
It's like saying "Buy our product! You need it! Because... ninjas! And dinosaurs! Look over there! A man in a monkey suit!" and hoping someone will do it...
Now see, that's the kind of shit that would make me buy a product.

With regards to those clickthrough/charity ads, that's not really anything new, just something adapted to current technology and society. I know when I was a kid, boxes of breakfast cereal would have stuff like "Buy 5 boxes and we'll send 15% of the proceeds to __________ foundation." It's been like that for ages.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 2009-06-24, 16:10
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasiek View Post
it's like saying "buy our product! You need it! Because... Ninjas! And dinosaurs! Look over there! A man in a monkey suit!" and hoping someone will do it...
:d :d :d
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff

Last edited by Darkflame; 2009-06-24 at 16:47.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 2009-06-24, 16:25
LethalSwordsMan's Avatar
LethalSwordsMan LethalSwordsMan is offline
Polish Pride
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia, Vic
Posts: 657
You know its gerat pointing out flaws of microsoft and its software, not to mention its advertising morals... but as long as we keep coming up with new downfalls, I think it's all good .
Just when we start running in circles pointing out the same shit over and over again which shows us whos making the monkey out of who

And why are you worried that slogans like that are attracting customers? Doesn't that tell you that they are idiots who are going to buy the damn thing anyway no matter what the ad says?

Besides, I think the bigger/actual issue here is that microsoft's attempted monopoly is ruining software for everyone by excluding other softwares and making them incompatible with things most everyday PC users use. Shouldn't the anger be more focused on the fact they make getting good software horribly inconvenient, rather than that they lack morals in their ad campaigns? Its not really a secret that microsoft is bad, so instead of acting like it is, start like a massive conversion project, turn the world over onto a rival and fuck with the system, bitch Microsoft from the inside

Its about time there was a bit more variety in OS's
__________________
Falling back to the way,
things were before we had a dream,
Broken inside,
not knowing when to laugh or cry,
Break the surface,
and tell me what you really see,
When did we stop believing?
When did we say goodbye?
_______________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 2009-06-24, 16:56
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
My personal anger is that IE is giving me, quite literally, a lot of extra work to do, as well as holding back the internet as a whole.

I'm sure most web developers will agree;


Misinformation campaigns on this issue from microsoft are insulting to those that know what they are talking about, and helping to solidify views for those that dont.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 2009-06-24, 20:41
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
My Uni has almost entirely dropped IE for its websites, actually. Even though we have a software partnership with Microsoft (students get "free" software as part of their tuition), it's surprising that Firefox is the default, and recommended browser, on nearly all uni computers. Even the course communications sites, where you can submit assignments, download grades, etc., all of these are designed for Firefox.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 2009-06-24, 20:51
Warwick's Avatar
Warwick Warwick is offline
Pedobear
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zoe's Womb
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
That shit is bananas. IE makes my balls hurt.

Although I have to say, I'm disappointed in FF3, mostly because it has an assload of memory leaks, takes forever to load, and still has a lot of bugs. Much "heavier" than its predecessors.
True. I'm on a Core2Duo, and FF takes about 90,000K of Mem-Use.
Makes my CPU fluctuate way too much, sigh.

No better alternatives though. Most of the other browsers are, believe it or not, FF copycats.. (Safari, sniff..)
__________________
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2574/discqf3.jpg

Original Russian LBA. Talk to me privately for more details.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 2009-06-25, 05:11
LethalSwordsMan's Avatar
LethalSwordsMan LethalSwordsMan is offline
Polish Pride
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia, Vic
Posts: 657
Well the biggest advantage Microsoft has over the hordes is that they are obviously by far the most well known and most people seem to think its the only reliable software system, seeing the rest as cheap imitations bound to fail due to lack of quality like something you'd find in the local $2 shop.
But lately there's been a massive push towards Apple's, so many more people have them now and its bound to get people to start realising that other options are as reliable - for a starter - and then eventually realise how much better it is for their PC's.

It's far too much of an inconvenience for people to actually check out the features, let alone understand exactly what the features actually mean... Yes, Microsoft's style of advertising is atrocious, no doubt and it's definitely an inferior system in many areas, plus microsoft's taboo on making things compatible for other systems is a bigger pain than ever but it'll get done soon enough. I mean if a uni that is actually getting sponsored to use microsoft products is already not, then seriously how long do you think these techniques will last? Even with the 'tantalising' offers, people can still see through it, it shows that its clearly not only not the best, or even on par, but significantly below to be second to other systems.

But please, go ahead and rip into microsoft and IE as well as you know how, venting is good . But yea, I don't think anybody would argue that microsoft is better, nobody here has yet. Most importantly I'd like to say the way they act is understandable, but not acceptable, anybody else in their shoes would probably do the same thing. Its a matter of knowing that, and finding new ways to counter it, they can't hold out forever.
__________________
Falling back to the way,
things were before we had a dream,
Broken inside,
not knowing when to laugh or cry,
Break the surface,
and tell me what you really see,
When did we stop believing?
When did we say goodbye?
_______________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 2009-06-25, 08:44
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalSwordsMan View Post
anybody else in their shoes would probably do the same thing.
Uhm, no.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 2009-06-25, 12:53
SebZ SebZ is offline
Magic Ball Mister
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Far away from you
Posts: 2,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
I'm sure most web developers will agree;
oh, for sure!! i've still got an issue with a site that i made... hahaha
__________________
Just remember, what happens in localhost, stays in localhost.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 2009-06-25, 16:39
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,776
To be honest I don't think Windows is that bad.

I've never used Mac OS, but I'm well acquainted with Linux, which I've used exclusively for many years.

A couple of years ago, however, I began to find myself with less and less time to worry about dependency hell, driver hunting, dealing with Windows-only file formats, etc, and decided to give Windows a go. I don't really regret it.

I think Windows has its uses. The simplicity of software installation and the drivers make it an excellent choice if you lack time or patience. Another important matter for me is that it doesn't depend so much on an internet connection, as I have rather shitty internet access. Can you imagine using most modern Linux distros without access to the web? I have a Linux install sitting around in my laptop, but I can't use it because I don't have the bandwidth to make it usable.

It's also good to point out that if you have a hard time finding drivers for your hardware, it's hardly Microsoft's fault. Hardware developers are often too lazy/greedy to do Linux drivers.

I know Ubuntu is 'solving' some of the problems Linux has, but I think it's doing it the wrong way, and I refuse to take a part in it. Yes, the Linux community should eliminate some of its variety and come up with standards for certain things. But this shouldn't be done by mass shifting to a particular Linux distro. They shouldn't eliminate all variety. I'm not a debian guy, I like Slackware, I've always used Slackware. Why should I use a debian descendant? The main distros should agree on filesystem structure, some file locations, a decent dependency checking solution and allow everybody to benefit from large package-assembling communities without falling hostage to a specific distro.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 2009-06-25, 16:48
Medur's Avatar
Medur Medur is offline
LBA fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 2,776
Also I forgot to say I have no intention of using Apple products because most Apple fans are extremely annoying.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 2009-06-25, 17:22
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medur View Post
Also I forgot to say I have no intention of using Apple products because most Apple fans are extremely annoying.
Screw you man, your corporate tool! I'm going to write a Twitter post from my new 3G iPhone!!! [/Apple_fans]
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 2009-06-26, 17:23
LethalSwordsMan's Avatar
LethalSwordsMan LethalSwordsMan is offline
Polish Pride
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia, Vic
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
Uhm, no.
When I say anybody in their shoes, I mean anybody in their position, with their history. This includes the following:
-Massive company
-Had monopoly since like ever
-Can't keep up with the new competition

Their other option is to just roll over and die. With all the faults it has that have slowly gathered over time like a snowball rolling down a hill (with snow), they've just been putting band-aid solutions one after the other on top of them and they just can't possibly fix them and compete at the same time. They'd have to go into hibernation for a significant amount of time during which they'd be financially stripped of everything, and I don't think a company that size would chose that...

Once again, morals don't play a big part in business, at least the serious type, and thats all this is to microsoft, business. They aren't trying to make life easier for everyone else, or bring software to a new and exciting level, they're trying to keep their stranglehold on the area, and thats the only way they can do it. It's business.
__________________
Falling back to the way,
things were before we had a dream,
Broken inside,
not knowing when to laugh or cry,
Break the surface,
and tell me what you really see,
When did we stop believing?
When did we say goodbye?
_______________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 2009-06-26, 21:16
ChaosFish's Avatar
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Earth Simulator
Posts: 20,161
They have billions of billions of dollars, and their options are either to go in the general direction of the medieval churches or to roll over and die? I'm sure there must be a third option...
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 2009-06-26, 21:19
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosFish View Post
I'm sure there must be a third option...
An hero.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Funfrock Propaganda Posters needed! Darkflame The Relentless Movie project 15 2007-05-17 20:27
Microsoft, Where do they want to go today? schitzn Off topic 73 2006-12-31 14:59
Microsoft rips off LBA! schitzn General 19 2006-11-17 06:13
Never trust Microsoft again! SebZ First aid 60 2006-08-03 11:38
Microsoft going mad Lucifer Off topic 38 2003-01-19 03:28


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:25.


News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, the Magicball Network