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  #1  
Old 2009-08-19, 00:24
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Darkflame Darkflame is offline
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Also, theres a lot of wise words he said there.
Wish I could bash the Heavy Rain developers over the head with his "Games are not films" stuff :P
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  #2  
Old 2009-08-19, 13:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Also, theres a lot of wise words he said there.
Wish I could bash the Heavy Rain developers over the head with his "Games are not films" stuff :P
There's absolutely nothing wrong with interactive movies. Which is officially what Heavy Rain is, afaik.
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  #3  
Old 2009-08-19, 14:46
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Interactive movies should have died out in the 90s.
They are a stupid concept, and a massive insult to gaming as it somehow infers gaming has to be like films to be art. (The Heavy rain developer even used the dumb line about gaming having yet to experience its "Citisen Kane").

Games are about playing, not watching. If you cant tell a story in the gameplay (Like Sands Of Time, Portal, Eternal Darkness all successfully do), then you shouldn't make a game at all.

Interactive movies are just the worst combination of two mediums.
Like motion-comics.
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Old 2009-08-19, 16:40
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Interactive movies > Regular movies. It's not an insult to games if it's called an interactive movie. Just don't call it a game.

Interactive fiction "died" in the 90's too, but it won't stay dead for long.
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Old 2009-08-19, 17:25
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Quote:
Interactive movies > Regular movies
Why?
If I'm watching a movie, I want to lie back.
If I'm playing a game, I want to be part of it. I dont want to flick between the two constantly.

Its like those weird Japanese interactive-novel things where your not even making choices to the progression (like real IF), instead your litteraly just choosing the order your told stuff. I dont see the point of it being a game at all.

In fact, I cant think of any interactive movie thats been even remotely close to being a good game, or a good movie. However you want to grade it, they have all pretty much sucked.
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Old 2009-08-19, 18:49
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Darkflame: Well, your opinion on the matter is just... wrong. Completely lying back is nice sometimes, but usually only when you're really tired/lazy. A little interactivity, even if it's just a tiny bit, makes everything more fun. (oh, and it fries less of your brain)

Don't be a purist Purists are always wrong, because there's no actually such thing as pure; it's just something made up.
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Old 2009-08-19, 19:33
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Interactivity wouldnt improve any classic film, whether its the Dark Knight or Amelie.
You could have games set in their worlds, and even following their storys. But making a movie interactive dosnt add anything. Its better to take the themes and principles and build a game world around them.

Its nothing about purity, its just its a wrong principle. If I'm playing a game I want to actualy effect stuff. To feel like I'm having an impact on the gameworld and not just pressing buttons and watch short sequences.

Thats why I think, say, Knightlore is one of the all time worst games ever made.

Its about immersion really. To really feel involved with a film or game your flow shouldn't be interrupted. If I'm playing a character I should , idly, control the character all the time. The game shouldn't take over and make choices for me (or if it does, keep it to a minimum)
If I'm watching a character in a film I shouldn't suddenly start controlling them....both case's contradict the reality your presented with.

The only case I can think of where an interactive movie would make you more immersed, not less, is if the story actualy involved characters being possessed/controlled by another enity in the plot. Then you could be that enity, and taking controll wouldnt contradict anything. So maybe films with themes like The Gamer/Surrogates could be adapted. But not much else.



Also, Fred agrees with me, so blah.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2009-08-20 at 00:27. Reason: Preventing the disruption of the flow of the continuum.
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  #8  
Old 2009-08-19, 19:54
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About the possessed/controlled idea, it's indeed been in adventures games (which don't have much gameplay themselves). Like in Secret of Monkey Island, you can make Guybrush say something and then he goes "... I have no idea why I just said that." Also in Grim Fandango, when the game begins Manny Calavera suddenly acts like he doesn't know anything and all the characters think he's acting strange.

Anyway that's besides the point.

I bet you if you'll keep an open mind you'll change your mind. You're just not seeing the possibilities... I agree with you that so far everyone (or almost everyone) whose done it done it wrong. Meh, it's their own fault, they weren't creative enough.

For example;
Think of Lost as an interactive tv show. You could control the fabric of destiny... the actors could act every scene in several different variations according to the little choices you make along the line. And the editor of the show has a job of making sure everything is seamless and right at every possible story the viewer shapes.
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  #9  
Old 2009-08-19, 22:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
In fact, I cant think of any interactive movie thats been even remotely close to being a good game, or a good movie.
GET READY!!!


I do agree with you however. It's a question of control, movies that are supposedly higher art try to force you into an emotional reaction and to experience them the way the director wants you to. Game's on the other hand let you choose the way you act and (sometimes) react to certain things. Which is a nightmare for an artsy prick.

Now, it's either that you're being told a story, you shut up and let it unfold (like it already happened), or you're put in the centre of it and have control over it. The marriage of the two is an ilusion of control and the lack of relexation a simple listening to a story provides.
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  #10  
Old 2009-08-19, 23:37
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sigh...

You Are Wrong.

Seriously, I've recommended this a lot of time, but now I'm imploring you: Read Photopia. (Z-Code version is most readable, use with Windows Frotz) If you read this and you'll still stick to your opinion that interactivity and storytelling goes Either/Or, I'll personally buy you three oranges and an apple.
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  #11  
Old 2009-08-20, 01:00
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It's horrible...
The text games of the olden days understood more commands...

Also, there was a mars thing, and it kept explaining "hard words" which annoyed me pretty quick. Why is it jumping between stories like that? Finish at least one ffs!!!!!

EDIT:

ARGH!!! The level of idiocy this program is displaying is beyond annoying! Won't understand even the simplest of commands that Leisure Suit Freakin Larry 1 would!!!
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2009-08-20 at 01:07.
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  #12  
Old 2009-08-20, 01:35
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With an attitude like that...

OK, first off: there's a reason it explains "hard word", just like there's a reason for everything you just complained about, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it'd be a spoiler.

Second off: Adam Cadre (the author) is a genius. You have to assume he knows what he's doing.

Third off: You have to learn how to talk to the program. It's an acquired skill.
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  #13  
Old 2009-08-20, 01:45
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It's not that, I know how that stuff works. It's the writing issues in it. Most often then not finding the right words is guesswork ( like "get up" instead of "get out of the room" "open door" etc.). It lacks in simple things that even Larry or other simple text games had. Simple "examine area" or "look around" is not in there too.

Atually, I had a positive attitude in the beginning, and it's getting more and more annoying.
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  #14  
Old 2009-08-20, 02:05
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I can guarantee you that if you keep your attitude positive it will pay off. Photopia is a masterpiece... it's a treasure. Sorry to sound all mushy.

Again, you have to learn how to talk to the program - it's not perfect (hey, it's an engine from the early 90's or even earlier), but it's certainly not frustrating once you get the hang of it.

There's no "look around", there's only "look". "Go west" (if you have a "compass") or "Go to stairs" (or sometimes "exit room") instead of "get out of the room". "Open door" should work.

Some shortcuts: type these letters...
L - Look
W/S/E/N/SW/SE/etc. - if you have a compass - directions.
X - Examine (eg. X floor)
Z - Wait in place
I - Inventory
Did I forget something?
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