Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > General

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2013-04-08, 13:36
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
How to ruin LBA

Just a random thought experiment:

Lets say the LBA games are being rebooted, redesigned from the ground up "for a modern audience".

How would they utterly ruin the games?

Giving Twinsen a tragic backstory?
Dinofly flights paid for by microtransactions?
Always on DRM...and only the first island is accessible till they fix their servers.

ideas?
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2013-04-08, 15:14
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
I think the DRM question will probably come down to who publishes the game. I suppose I've come to accept some DRM, but in general I don't find much of it to be necessary for the experience the developers intended. So I typically ignore it. In the case of LBA, it would probably depend on whether it was something that mattered to the overall story or if it was something like a collection of minigames, fetch quests, etc. that I could care less about.

I think the first way that LBA could be "ruined" was what you alluded to in the first point - changing the story in some drastic way. I hope they remain relatively true to the lore of the series. I know some things will be reinvented, especially with the technological advancements since 1994. But don't try to turn Twinsan into something he's not - he isn't a gritty action hero, he isn't a sociopath, he isn't an introvert. The series has a very playful, cartoonish feel. That's okay. I don't need Gears of War to understand or appreciate the Relentless storyline.

I think another thing to be careful of will be genericizing (?) the LBA world to try and make it seem alive. While I appreciate the concept of a GTA or similar sandbox titles that want to make their settings feel inhabited and vibrant, so much of those games have very little to interact with in terms of the environment. In LBA, exploration was such a great part of the experience. It would be annoying if this element was forsaken in favor of adding more buildings to Lupin-Burg, for example. Don't add filler. I'd rather have smaller areas or fewer areas of interest overall than a bunch of random huts in the Francos village (as an example) that I can't go into.

I think a real question is going to be what they do with the camera. Would it still be LBA if it wasn't in isometric view? I think of games like Ratchet and Clank (at least the older titles) with fixed camera views that changed depending on the area. I typically find those frustrating rather than achieving the aesthetic goal the developer probably intended.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2013-04-08, 17:05
Kitarii's Avatar
Kitarii Kitarii is offline
You what?!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 6,537
We've all had far too long to think about what LBA3 should be like, I doubt it (if ever made) would live up to any expectations, but as long as the original creators are involved I'm sure it would be a good game.

It could easily go the way of many RPGs with various skill levels that you spend time building, which would be a disaster. I don't like those games at the best of times, but it would take away the simplicity of the game - I prefer a game which requires actual playing skill rather than simply spending a lot of time building up your levels.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2013-04-08, 17:12
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitarii View Post
It could easily go the way of many RPGs with various skill levels that you spend time building, which would be a disaster. I don't like those games at the best of times, but it would take away the simplicity of the game - I prefer a game which requires actual playing skill rather than simply spending a lot of time building up your levels.
I don't think that would be something Fred+the devs would be up for. But I could see more emphasis on combat though. I don't know if the normal/sporty/aggressive/discreet concept would be necessary today. I'd like to see them do away with that.

Granted, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who prefers analog controllers to a keyboard, but Twinsen should be able to perform most of his actions without a menu selection. We've had sneaking/walking/running in games like the Metal Gear Solid series. I'm not saying they have to be combos, but one or two dedicated attack buttons. Another button for use/talk/interact. Reducing the amount of clutter in terms of what Twinsen can/can't do at any given point would be a big step forward.

I'm not saying give him parkour movement or contextual controls (ala Brink), just that the control scheme be brought into the 21st century.

That being said, if Twinsen starts jumping off of roofs and killing Templars, we'll know it's a Ubisoft game for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2013-04-08, 17:19
Kitarii's Avatar
Kitarii Kitarii is offline
You what?!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 6,537
I'm all for a bit of Prince of Persia influence, I think Twinsen could definitely be a bit more agile to make for some more interesting combat opportunities. The behaviour menus do need to go though, absolutely right.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2013-04-08, 17:31
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Control wise it really comes down to platform - but with analogue sticks I think you can get rid of the modes without any harm done. The speed of movement already gives you sneaky/normal/sporty.
I am all for that.

Quote:
But don't try to turn Twinsan into something he's not - he isn't a gritty action hero, he isn't a sociopath, he isn't an introvert.
Thats a very good way to put it.
There really isnt that many introvert characters out there.

Or even that feel like they could be normal people.
Sometimes they say they are, but then dont remotely act that way.

I think it also helps we see Twinsens house - makes it feel a lot more like he isnt just there to be our puppet.

Quote:
It could easily go the way of many RPGs with various skill levels that you spend time building,
Indeed
I didnt like them edging that way with the last Zelda.

While I have nothing against RPGs, I think sometimes developers borrow their elements as a cheat. Its far easier to just "level" a characters stats up then it is to give the character new ability's or stuff to do.

Adding lots of stats and levels would be terrible for LBA.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2013-04-08, 17:58
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
ps...yes, I just realized I've been saying "Twinsan" instead of "Twinsen" for some parts of this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2013-04-08, 18:01
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Adding lots of stats and levels would be terrible for LBA.
I think that speaks to the exploration element of LBA. There were a number of islands, but all of them (well, most anyway) felt like they had their own personality and secrets to explore. As you went further in the game, you had new tools or abilities or knowledge that helped you find more secrets on those islands as well (ex. protopack on Desert Island to get the pearl). That element of exploration and a diverse world is key to getting the atmosphere of LBA correct.

It also makes me want to pop in my LBA disc and start replaying, haha.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:03
SpaceGuitarist's Avatar
SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
strange dreamer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 7,059
How to ruin LBA ? simple, just have the characters in the game act and talk like MBN members.
__________________
Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:05
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
How to ruin LBA ? simple, just have the characters in the game act and talk like MBN members.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:12
SpaceGuitarist's Avatar
SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
strange dreamer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 7,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
How to ruin LBA ? simple, just have the characters in the game act and talk like MBN members.
... at some point in LBA 3...
Twinsenakin: You have kidnapped the children once, I won't let you do it again, you pedophile!

Dark Battler Monk: I'm not a pedophile I just support the legality of kidnapping! Also, why are you bringing that up again, that was like years ago, you have to let that go.

Zoelliptic: The only person who brings up or even remembers this shit is you.

Double-Baldino: *grabs popcorn and starts eating*
...ad infinitum...
__________________
Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:20
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
... at some point in LBA 3...
Twinsenakin: You have kidnapped the children once, I won't let you do it again, you pedophile!

Dark Battler Monk: I'm not a pedophile I just support the legality of kidnapping! Also, why are you bringing that up again, that was like years ago, you have to let that go.

Zoelliptic: The only person who brings up or even remembers this shit is you.

Double-Baldino: *grabs popcorn and starts eating*
...ad infinitum...
Please don't derail this thread. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:48
Battler's Avatar
Battler Battler is offline
Welcome to Zirla!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Koper, Slovenia
Posts: 5,250
Send a message via ICQ to Battler Send a message via AIM to Battler Send a message via MSN to Battler Send a message via Yahoo to Battler
How they could ruin LBA? Easy: make it require a high-end PC. LBA was always more about the storyline than about graphics, so if LBA 3 ends up requiring the latest high-end hardware, that's going be radically different from how LBA used to be.

Also, another way to ruin it: use the Minecraft engine for LBA 3. Seriously, for all I love Minecraft, I have to admit its engine is coded badly, and Java makes it even worse.
__________________
Join #doki-doki on irc.ringoflightning.net for some nice chit-chat about anime, manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture now!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2013-04-08, 19:50
Double-J's Avatar
Double-J Double-J is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,979
On the graphics point, I wouldn't mind if LBA went in the direction of cel-shading artstyles. I think it would fit the bright, cartoonish world of LBA perfectly.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2013-04-08, 20:43
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Or TellTale's game engine.
I love their work, but for what it is their game engines are stupidly heavy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
I think that speaks to the exploration element of LBA. There were a number of islands, but all of them (well, most anyway) felt like they had their own personality and secrets to explore. As you went further in the game, you had new tools or abilities or knowledge that helped you find more secrets on those islands as well (ex. protopack on Desert Island to get the pearl). That element of exploration and a diverse world is key to getting the atmosphere of LBA correct.
I like to think of exploration coming in two flavors.
You got the geographical exploration element, visiting the islands, seeing new sites.
But you also got the exploration of your abilities, finding out new things you can do or interact with.

My favorite games, naturally, blend both of these.
Recently I have been playing AntiChamber , which while it has a very sterile empty world, it does masterfully get both these two things across. Theres great moments when you go "wow I can do this" without being explicitly told.

The worst a Lba game could be would be a linear set of environmental "reskins" where you do the same actions over and over.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2013-04-08, 20:57
SpaceGuitarist's Avatar
SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
strange dreamer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 7,059
On-topic: I'd hate if they'd change the composer of the game's soundtrack - imho that'd be the most important aspect, I can't find/think of any other composer that even remotely matches Vachey's superior work. Even someone else remixing the original soundtracks would hardly have a good outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-J View Post
Please don't derail this thread. Thanks.
I was actually testing you and your level of commitment to your new proposal. Seems legit, then.
__________________
Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2013-04-08, 21:53
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
How about voice-acting changes?

Can you imagine Twinsen as a gruff american hero?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
On-topic: I'd hate if they'd change the composer of the game's soundtrack - imho that'd be the most important aspect, I can't find/think of any other composer that even remotely matches Vachey's superior work.
Agreed.
The music provides a lot of the atmosphere. Theres lots of great game composers out there, but none would match the feel.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2013-04-09, 04:16
Necdilzor's Avatar
Necdilzor Necdilzor is offline
New efforts! :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tiliar Island
Posts: 1,068
A personal experience for ruining a bit of LBA is making the world characters have an unpeaceful nature. At the LID demo I got this by making most characters of the island no-lbaish. If the atmosphere of our traditional LBA is "corrputed" it will definitely stop "feeling" like LBA. I believe that emulating this feel is the most difficult thing to achieve and if not done well could easily ruin the game. I also believe that the original designers of the game could achieve this very well .

Graphic wise... realistic graphics would be out of place.

And gameplay wise... "Hey listen!".
__________________

Take a look at the blog!

LBA:LID Demo v1.0 HERE
Report bugs here! Thanks Alexfont!
----------------------------------------
Take a look at Vindish's mod!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2013-04-09, 10:47
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,671
Oh no, don't even talk about a change in voice-actors, that would be horrible

I believe a good way to ruin it would be to be too obvious about what you should do next.
Like, when you escape the citadel for the first time, there are roadworks everywhere, and when you come out of your house, big signs with "THE PORT IS THIS WAY" written in bright red
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2013-04-10, 03:35
CS2x's Avatar
CS2x CS2x is offline
inharmonic explorer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Oh no, don't even talk about a change in voice-actors, that would be horrible

I believe a good way to ruin it would be to be too obvious about what you should do next.
Like, when you escape the citadel for the first time, there are roadworks everywhere, and when you come out of your house, big signs with "THE PORT IS THIS WAY" written in bright red
Right. That would be awful. Sadly, most new games are like this, one way or another (either deliberately, with directives, or just as a result of lack and a design that doesn't give the illusion of freedom/exploration at all.)

They could also ruin LBA by making it combat-heavy or too relentless (har har) and packed-in with its actioney/gamey elements. The first two games had lovely breathing space. The newest Zelda, on the other hand, suffered because of its very claustrophobic feel.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2013-04-10, 18:14
SpaceGuitarist's Avatar
SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
strange dreamer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 7,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex_Hollywood View Post
About a month before the release, a LBA version of this "trailer" is uploaded to YouTube.
LBA is finally released, but no one can connect to the servers to start playing a singleplayer campaign.
After Adeline finally sorts out these issues, you begin the game and start learning the game's mechanics: Each mood needs to be leveled up, and you gain experience only by using the mood, so you spend a lot of time just pointlessly walking in discreet mode.
If at any point you don't walk in the linear path planned for you, a supergro appears and kills you instantly.
You reach the pharmacy, only to discover that you need to invite 5 facebook friends to help you in taking out the pharmacist.
In the Citadel Island port you discover you need to buy kashes with real life money, and only then you'll be able to pay for a ferry ticket.
In Principal Island you need to perform a painfully long and delicate series of QTE in order to spill the syrup in the water. Every 2-3 tries the game offers you to buy a DLC that just gives you an item to make this section easier.
You get disconnected from the game.
Get back.
A new patch was automatically downloaded, and now your save is useless.
You start over.
You kill a clone in order to be allowed to meet with Bob Vortix. This is when you're reminded once again that every kill is followed by a slow motion replay with a 360 degrees cam spin.
You realize your magicball wasn't very effective, so you go to a store and discover there are like 50 types of magicballs, each with its own weaknesses and strengths.
During the hamalayi rebel invasion, you need to finish some escorting mission with the worst NPC AI ever made.
The game goes on...
After you drop Funfrock in the first part of the final fight, the screen fades to black and the credits start to roll. In order to actually finish the game, you need to buy a DLC called "The Missing Link".
Bravo! You really nailed it.
Exposes in a perfect blend of sarcasm and humour the reasons for my disliking of modern games and consequently enhance my love and nostalgia for old games. <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex_Hollywood View Post
Oh, and there's only an autosave at the beginning of each scene, and you get hurt if you run into walls.
Hehe, classic.

Though new games often have checkpoints every 2 mins, which is imho far more annoying. Ah, you forgot to mention those "Achievement Unlocked" pieces of shit, and collecting different "Hats".
__________________
Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2013-04-10, 23:53
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 22,496
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Genius. Fantastic list

Love the idea of a bunch of QTEs just for emptying the syrup.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2013-04-11, 00:09
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,671
I actually find the hat phenomenon interesting, for something that no-one cares about in real life, it is weirdly popular in video games.
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2013-04-11, 01:11
Pimmin's Avatar
Pimmin Pimmin is offline
Pim! Pim!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LDN
Posts: 247
hahaha great posts, especially rex's
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2013-04-11, 05:13
Necdilzor's Avatar
Necdilzor Necdilzor is offline
New efforts! :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tiliar Island
Posts: 1,068
Rex_Hollywood, your description was perfect, and the ending was great xD
__________________

Take a look at the blog!

LBA:LID Demo v1.0 HERE
Report bugs here! Thanks Alexfont!
----------------------------------------
Take a look at Vindish's mod!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:42.


News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, the Magicball Network