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  #26  
Old 2003-08-16, 20:34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lightwing

Darkflame: My last post was general and not directed personaly at you. Though emulators are a good thing, some games are really best played with a joystick. Although, I suppose you can always buy one for PC as well.
Wasnt it? Im the only one complain about the Xbox here....

I agree, emulators are normaly never as good as the original. (try playing Tempest on anything other then the original spin controll...it just dosnt work)
But thats mostly a controller issue...and..eer...the Xbox controller...come on

Theres quite a few decent PC controll pads however
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  #27  
Old 2003-08-16, 20:38
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Why is it that all of you hate sony so much?
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  #28  
Old 2003-08-17, 00:39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball
Why is it that all of you hate sony so much?
Read through the thread. Darkflame writes these lovely posts so that stupid questions like this don't need to be asked.
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  #29  
Old 2003-08-17, 02:02
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Without Nintendo we hadnt had the gaming we have today, probably. Cause when Famicom arrived the whole industry was wrecked, gaming was dying out.. But Nintendo saved the day!

Microsoft placed computers and internet in "every" home (not really, no, but in nearly every western unpoor home at least). I am not sure (tho we will never know)what would have happened without Microsoft and Windows 3.x and 95. But Microsoft didnt have any loser mentality! The browser issue is, in my opinion, bullshit though. Microsoft stole that market from Netscape evily.

You are right about few of the Nintendo evilness things, but I still think it's wrong to make that SP gameboy, even though the light components were to expensive back then. Why not wait one or two years instead and make a new, better console? Instead they want (hence I dont write make ) people to buy two consoles of the same thing. And surely that is more expensive than including the backligt in the first place .

Yes, they earned their place pretty much. But they are using their monopoly by not making enough good new games and instead just make those ports of nice games. They need some pressure, everyone does.

I dont think that Microsoft will get a monopoly over the gaming market, actually. In my opinion Sega and Nintendo could easily crush Microsoft if they just put their asses together and make a good console with effort in(note I dont mean that Sega and Nintendo shall make a console together, and not that Sega shall make one either, since they cant. But theoretically in Sega's case). I mean, wtf, connecting a GBA to a Gamecube. Wtf is the use?? And they have no online gaming (!), THAT is stuff that will make them lose. Also it would be good if they buy Sega or something (I dont know if its possible) and let them do more grown-up games (although the recent restructuring in Sega points in the direction of more childish games) while Nintendo tries to make a bit more grownup games, but keep the very good all-age games too.

X-Box Live seems to kick ass. Sony's online stuff seems to be halfgood, while Nintendo's is pretty wretched. Microsoft Games has a good strategy for online gaming, so perhaps you are right, they might get a monopoly in the future, but since sucking Sony playstation2 still is more popular it wont happen right now. Although I think and hope that people will soon find out that the PS2 actually isnt very much of a good console. So therefor imo the battle will be between Nintendo and Microsoft, and therefor Nintendo needs to DO STUFF! ffs. (OK IM WRITING REALLY MESSY NOW but ok, I hope you get some parts of it, and this is just my theories). Another theory is that the Microsoft hate will win, X-Box Live turn out to be not so good, while EA and other important companies in Sony's online crew will manage to make good multiplayer services in combination with decent games. (The key might be the sports games, will the sports games of X-Box Live manage to beat EASports?). Also remember that Microsoft doesnt earn money at the X-Box, and that the real battle therefor will come later, with X-Box 2 and PS3 (and some Nintendo console, hopefully). If Microsoft wins there you might be right, yes. When they start earning money on their consoles the monopoly might be captured. Bla bla.

This is just my fucking thoughts that popped up in my mind.

Also I think that in the future there will be one console (remember there is only one Disc format (CD) for example. I mean wont people soon realize that they cant play all games, what if people couldnt listen to all music because of different CD formats... I think it was Ken Kutargi that said that they and Microsoft wanted to make one console, but Nintendo wouldnt. Personally, I am glad they didnt want to, cause probably the power in that type of console had been in the hands of Sony and MS. Nintendo are like underdogs now, and they must show something to keep their position. Ok
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  #30  
Old 2003-08-17, 11:44
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GS> Would you please not use the words grown-up and childish with games. I have a hard time taking people serious when they do that.
BTW. ever played with the GBA-NGC? Coz then you know it's actually quite fun.

About the SP. This is one of the most stupidest decisions Nintendo ever made. There was nothing wrong with the "light" of the GBA, still they made the SP. That would be good if only the SP would be good. I once played some games on it and I hated the design, I think the GBA is way better. Also, a lot of their handheld games are ports, and that freaking annoys me. Can't wait for Mario & Luigi, finally a not-port, but brand new Mario-game.

Also, their online gaming could be much better, but I don't really care about that. I still got REAL friends to play games with.

AND WHY THE F**K IS AUSTRALIA MORE IMPORTANT THAN EUROPE?????!!!!!!???
Why do they get Animal Crossing, and europe not (yet?). It's f**king unfair.
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  #31  
Old 2003-08-17, 12:16
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What I mean with "grownup" games and such is the target age for the games. Using the term grownup is a bit wrong though, teen would be better. Most of the games for Gamecube by Nintendo have a "family" target like. Therefor people buy Sony's or even microsoft's consoles instead.

Australia? Austria is in Europe
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  #32  
Old 2003-08-17, 12:35
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Hmm...The GB-SP was 25 euros more expensive than the GBA.
That made me mad.
From what i understand the only differences are:
*a back light (yeah, that's kinda cool)
*internal battery....i'm not sure if that's so great.
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  #33  
Old 2003-08-17, 14:39
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Gustav, you twat, Gamecube does have online gaming. Do your research.

I bet you've never played one ;D
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  #34  
Old 2003-08-17, 14:47
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Gustav: probably there will never be a single console, perhaps a single media format. CDs are all the same, but CD-players are different, aren't they?
Some older CD-ROM drivers can't read CDs burned with more recent techniques.
I think there are too many things involved to such an unified game system exist.
Darkflame: Linux can be ran with (modded) X-Box already. A group of hackers say that they developed a way to run Linux with not modded X-Box, and are menacing Microsoft (stupid hackers, they should just publish the source and contribute with the community, instead of making it look bad. ^^; ), but it's not known if they're telling the truth.
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  #35  
Old 2003-08-17, 14:47
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It has no online gaming to talk about. Compared to X-Box Live it's shit...
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  #36  
Old 2003-08-17, 16:11
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ok...lots of points, in reverse order of posts

Quote:
It has no online gaming to talk about. Compared to X-Box Live it's shit...
Compared to the Dreamcast Xbox live is shit.

You ~Got to~ have a broadband PC connection already, and you ~got to~ use Microsofts ISP (£50 a year no?) ...and only Games microsoft approve of will go online.
(because there controlling the whole network...)

oh, and the Network is closed, so that Xbox gamers cant play with anyone else but Xbox gamers.

So, in short, its only for rich people, in broadband areas, that only want to play in the small Xbox live community.

Oh, and you see what I mean by Microsoft being a controll-freak company.

Compared to the Dreamcast:

Any PC ISP, all games and usage free except for MMORPGs (because they are constantly updated)

So, I think if you want an online console, DC is still by far and away the best.

Besides, Gamecube isnt as far behind as you think.

Theres still only 2 or 3 Xbox live games here VS 1 GC online game (which was online first).

The problem is Nintendo arnt doing online games themselfs, but the network support is there. (theres only 4 online games planed by 3rd partys so far)
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  #37  
Old 2003-08-17, 16:27
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Quote:
Gustav: probably there will never be a single console, perhaps a single media format. CDs are all the same, but CD-players are different, aren't they?
Some older CD-ROM drivers can't read CDs burned with more recent techniques.
I think there are too many things involved to such an unified game system exist.
Thank god for that, a unified system would stop inovation.
Perhapes, just perhapes, when we have holodecks...then maybe a unified format would be good
But untill then, no way.


Quote:
Linux can be ran with (modded) X-Box already. A group of hackers say that they developed a way to run Linux with not modded X-Box, and are menacing Microsoft (stupid hackers, they should just publish the source and contribute with the community, instead of making it look bad. ^^; ), but it's not known if they're telling the truth
Yes, your quite correct
I should have made it clear that its a non-modded Xbox the challenge is for.
According to the current EDGE the people that found the hack, have demanded to microsoft that they make a "legit" way for users to use Linux, or else they will release the hack over the net for people.






Quote:
Hmm...The GB-SP was 25 euros more expensive than the GBA.
That made me mad.
From what i understand the only differences are:
*a back light (yeah, that's kinda cool)
*internal battery....i'm not sure if that's so great
Yes, but since the GBA was released its gone down in price more then 25 euros
So, effectively, you have the "cheap" old version, and the "SP" version for a bit more. (which is about the price the GBA was when it was first released)
Both are still being manufactored.

The internal battary is great because it allows the back light to be possible
15 hours with the light on, or 20 hours with it off......thats a hell of a lot of game time.
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  #38  
Old 2003-08-17, 16:34
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Quote:
GS> Would you please not use the words grown-up and childish with games. I have a hard time taking people serious when they do that.
I soooo agree with that.
Nintendo dont target there games at anyone, there one of the very few publishers that dont use "targated demographics" to decided what games they are going to fund.


Quote:
About the SP. This is one of the most stupidest decisions Nintendo ever made. There was nothing wrong with the "light" of the GBA, still they made the SP. That would be good if only the SP would be good. I once played some games on it and I hated the design, I think the GBA is way better. Also, a lot of their handheld games are ports, and that freaking annoys me. Can't wait for Mario & Luigi, finally a not-port, but brand new Mario-game.
They made it because there were so many people complaing about the GBAs screen.

Dont ask me, either, I never understod what the problem was....there was never these complaints about the GBs, or GBCs screens was there?
But when the GBA came out everyone started complaining....perhapes people have been eating less carrots
----
Nintendo arnt investing enouhg in making GBA games themselfs...unfortunatly they dont need too, the third part support for the GB is very good.
Its set to look up though, Mario & Luigi is supposed to be more like Mario RPG then a platform game, and the (final) mario port Mario 3 is going to have downloadble new levels using the e-card reader thingy.
Oh, and Capcom are doing a GBA Zelda

Advanced Wars 2, Golden sun 2 ect ect...lots of good release's are soon.
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  #39  
Old 2003-08-17, 16:41
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Quote:
You are right about few of the Nintendo evilness things, but I still think it's wrong to make that SP gameboy, even though the light components were to expensive back then. Why not wait one or two years instead and make a new, better console? Instead they want (hence I dont write make ) people to buy two consoles of the same thing. And surely that is more expensive than including the backligt in the first place .

Not really, the Gameboy was just too outdated too have suvived if they waited 2 more years.
Neo Geo, Wonder Swan, GP32...pathetic compitition now, but if they went up against the GBC instead of the GBA they would have easily won.

But, really, I dont see what the problem is.
I would get your arguement if the games where different...I would be pissed of indeed for my GBA to have a "life" of just a few years.
But there not...they are the same.

I mean, thees plenty of places that will do a part-trade in on my GBA for money of a GBA-SP, I I really wanted the upgrade.

If your going to complain about any Gameboy, you should look at japans releases
(they did a GB, a GB pocket, GB pocket with light ect ect....they went a bit "sega" )
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  #40  
Old 2003-08-17, 16:42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
ok...lots of points, in reverse order of posts



Compared to the Dreamcast Xbox live is shit.

You ~Got to~ have a broadband PC connection already, and you ~got to~ use Microsofts ISP (£50 a year no?) ...and only Games microsoft approve of will go online.
(because there controlling the whole network...)

oh, and the Network is closed, so that Xbox gamers cant play with anyone else but Xbox gamers.

So, in short, its only for rich people, in broadband areas, that only want to play in the small Xbox live community.

Oh, and you see what I mean by Microsoft being a controll-freak company.

Compared to the Dreamcast:

Any PC ISP, all games and usage free except for MMORPGs (because they are constantly updated)

So, I think if you want an online console, DC is still by far and away the best.

Besides, Gamecube isnt as far behind as you think.

Theres still only 2 or 3 Xbox live games here VS 1 GC online game (which was online first).

The problem is Nintendo arnt doing online games themselfs, but the network support is there. (theres only 4 online games planed by 3rd partys so far)
But, Darkflame, you can't play any other game than Phantasy Star on SEGA Online... They closed the servers a while ago.

X-Box Live is best because it only allows ADSL, there will be no lag, and fast and hitech gaming and communicating. Also, I dont wanna play a MMORPG, then Gamecube Online isnt anything for me, Im not gonna pay for 56k hours either. So X-Box Live is again the best. X-Box Live will offer several good sports games, and also Midtown Madness 3, and since there is no really good online services for sports or racing games (the genres I like most, I think, except the rare LBA/Outcast style and platform and RTS of course) at the PC X-Box Live is a good one. Ed Fries, I think it was, said that a soccer game will come too for X-Box Live, since that is what they lack. You can't compare Nintendo's online shit with Microsoft's, X-Box Live seems SO much better..
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  #41  
Old 2003-08-17, 17:00
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Quote:
Yes, they earned their place pretty much. But they are using their monopoly by not making enough good new games and instead just make those ports of nice games. They need some pressure, everyone does.
Dont confuse hardware with software.

Nintendo has plenty of compition on the software side, theres a hell of a lot of good GBA games comming out.
They have limited resources, so they decided to do more GC games at that time.

Please, try to remember sony DOSNT MAKE ANY games, so you cant fairly compare the companys.

As I said, I would be glade of compition for the GBA, to improve the next generation of hardware.
Your quite correct, pressure is good.
Just not Sony...they dont make games, they dont invent.


Quote:
I dont think that Microsoft will get a monopoly over the gaming market, actually.
They wont if we dont buy Xboxs.
If we do, they will.
Its as simply as that.


Quote:
In my opinion Sega and Nintendo could easily crush Microsoft if they just put their asses together and make a good console with effort in(note I dont mean that Sega and Nintendo shall make a console together, and not that Sega shall make one either, since they cant. But theoretically in Sega's case).
so..err...what did you mean then?
Sega is making a profit for the first time in almost a decade thanks to going multiformat, I dont think they will tie themselfs down with Nintendo.
Allthough their AV division seems to be nintendo only.
Super Monkey Ball, F-Zero......Sega works well with Nintendo.



Quote:
I mean, wtf, connecting a GBA to a Gamecube. Wtf is the use?? And they have no online gaming (!), THAT is stuff that will make them lose.
Says someone who has clearly never played it in his life.

The use is it gives you a private screen, allow many unique gameplay opitunitys.
Some games dont use it correctly, but Rayman and Zelda use it excelently. (and so does Final Fantasy:CC apparently)

oh, and then theres downloadable GBA games.
In Animal Crossing you can get NES games and "download" them onto your GBA.
Come on dude! that is cool!
Its an invention, an idea...a bloodly cool one at that.

Sega give out reward GBA games in Phatasy Star Online.
Like a Gameboy version of "NiGHTs", once download it can be played on the GBA where ever.
You have to live the GBA on, to keep the game in RAM, but the GBA has a "Standby Mode", that works much like a PCs.

Another example is Namco's (future) Pac Man game.
Upto 3 people can controll the ghosts on GC (split screen), but they cant see the whole maze, only the bit near them, so they dont know where pac man is.

One person plays Pac Man on the GBA, seeing the whole map.

Do you get it?

THERE IS NO WAY A GAME LIKE THAT COULD BE PLAYED WITHOUT THE GBA/GC LINK.

Its a complete new concept, developers have only just started exploring the limits of what can be done with "personal screens".

You could view it as a super-hyper-dreamcast VMU system.


As for online gameing.....no one has made a profit from it yet,
NO ONE.
Not Microsoft, Not Sony, Not even Sega. (who had by far the best system)

So you really think Nintendo are going to "lose" because they deciced to let 3rd partys pay for there own networks?

Quote:
Also it would be good if they buy Sega or something (I dont know if its possible) and let them do more grown-up games (although the recent restructuring in Sega points in the direction of more childish games) while Nintendo tries to make a bit more grownup games, but keep the very good all-age games too.
Oh, "grown up games"...like blasting everyones heads of with loads of blood and gore...realllllllyyy mature
I wont even start to comment on that stupid statement.

Nintendo already make some of the most mature games on the planet. Hopefully the rest of the world will catch up with them soon. (probably when the playstation generation are in their 30's.)


As for Nintendo buying companys....its just not something they do.
Nintendo very rarely buys anyone, or anything, they just form 2nd party contracts occasionaly.
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  #42  
Old 2003-08-17, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav Sweden
But, Darkflame, you can't play any other game than Phantasy Star on SEGA Online... They closed the servers a while ago.

X-Box Live is best because it only allows ADSL, there will be no lag, and fast and hitech gaming and communicating. Also, I dont wanna play a MMORPG, then Gamecube Online isnt anything for me, Im not gonna pay for 56k hours either. So X-Box Live is again the best. X-Box Live will offer several good sports games, and also Midtown Madness 3, and since there is no really good online services for sports or racing games (the genres I like most, I think, except the rare LBA/Outcast style and platform and RTS of course) at the PC X-Box Live is a good one. Ed Fries, I think it was, said that a soccer game will come too for X-Box Live, since that is what they lack. You can't compare Nintendo's online shit with Microsoft's, X-Box Live seems SO much better..
a) Wrong...sega closed their severs,true, but you can still play direct connect games using PC Isps (like Freeserve)

Look around, theres still a lot of Dreamcast QUAKE players going up against PC players.

As for the rest, I dont even know where to start. You sound like an Advert for Microsoft.

"X-Box Live is best because it only allows ADSL, "

YES ITS THE BEST BECAUSE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO USE IT HORRAY!!!!!



And as for "no lag" "hi tech", in Bill Gates dreams maybe.
Theres always lag, even on broadband systems.
When too many people are on a sever it will slow down.

Thats why racing games are so rare too, they dont work very well.
Even broadband works in "bursts", packets, and unfortunatly racing games need a continous stream of date.
There are some, sure, but they are very glitchy...wait till you try some.

Maybe in a few years we will have much more effient packet sending techiques. (theres a way to improve dial-up internet by 300% according to the New Scientist a few months back)

Quote:
Im not gonna pay for 56k hours either.
WTF?
You can ~choose~ Broadband or Modem with the GC.
ITS YOUR CHOICE.

And you can use a NORMAL pc isp, that will give you unlimited access for a set fee a month. (BT, Freeserve ect)
You CAN CHOSE ANY ISP YOU LIKE!.

So you dont pay per hour at all. (Unless you want too)

If you live in an area with Broadband you can have it, if you dont, you can use a modem.

Its called CHOICE, its something Microsoft likes people not to have.



The ~only~ Problem with GC's system is lack of game choice.
The system itself is, like the Dreamcasts, far suppiour.

*Any developer can make an online game without Nintendo apointing them too and "approving" the game.

*You dont have to pay Nintendo ANY fee.

*You can use Broadband or Modem

*Any ISP you like

*You can, in thoery, play an online game against a player on the PS2, DC or PC. (even though its unlikely a developer will design a cross-platform game that way).
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  #43  
Old 2003-08-17, 20:30
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I agree competition will be a good thing for the GBA (allthough I know some really good GBA-games coming), but there might be a problem.

Playstation(2) has in a certain way become the face of consoles. It's the most known one, and parents buy it sooner becoz they recognize the name (that's no bullshit). Also, the people working in the store mostly don't give good advice (ngc for kids, ps2 for teens, xbox for adults, like that) A lot of people have or will have it becoz of that. And becoz Sony was so damn jealous, they decided to go connectivity too. So, if they have a choice, most people will buy a PSP for their PS2, and I don't know if that's a good thing.

BTW. is it true PSP uses discs? don't you need savecards then?
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Old 2003-08-17, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twinsal
I agree competition will be a good thing for the GBA (allthough I know some really good GBA-games coming), but there might be a problem.

Playstation(2) has in a certain way become the face of consoles. It's the most known one, and parents buy it sooner becoz they recognize the name (that's no bullshit). Also, the people working in the store mostly don't give good advice (ngc for kids, ps2 for teens, xbox for adults, like that) A lot of people have or will have it becoz of that. And becoz Sony was so damn jealous, they decided to go connectivity too. So, if they have a choice, most people will buy a PSP for their PS2, and I don't know if that's a good thing.

BTW. is it true PSP uses discs? don't you need savecards then?
By connectivity do you mean online gaming?
I'm no expert on the subject, but, didn't the ps2 come first, therefore the online gaming started with ps2.
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Old 2003-08-17, 21:21
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Twinsal: Sony was jealous? Come on, be more serious ^^;
The portable video games market is interesting for any video game company, it's very natural that Sony would release something like PSP sooner or later. As they also have a video game called Playstation, and have the technology, it's also natural that connectivity between both would happen. This isn't the greatest "no one would ever think of it" idea of all times, you know. Portable video games and connectivity between them is quite obvious. If you have a PS2, of course you're going to buy a PSP if you like the titles, because it'd give you more advantages than buying a GBA (the same goes for NGC, if you have it, you'd rather buy a GBA than a PSP).
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BTW, I believe online gaming in the new generation began with DreamCast.
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  #46  
Old 2003-08-17, 22:22
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I'm dropping out of this discussion.
I don't know why I always get so involved in these stupid arguments, I should've learned my lesson by now...
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  #47  
Old 2003-08-18, 01:12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
By connectivity do you mean online gaming?
I'm no expert on the subject, but, didn't the ps2 come first, therefore the online gaming started with ps2.
SNES, actually XD
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  #48  
Old 2003-08-18, 01:44
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The first thing remotely relacted to online console gaming was with a NES, I think. I remember Shigeru Miyamoto mentioned something about old NES modems.
The first for-real online console gaming was Seganet, though. (or so I think)
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Old 2003-08-18, 02:25
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i realise this is a little closed-minded, but... i feel i have to side against microsoft at all times...

anyone who thinks that's unreasonable obviously hasn't heard of "trusted computing" (i.e. the forthcoming generation of pc and os)

those people should probably go here: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
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Old 2003-08-18, 02:48
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Yes. Check my post in the 1st page.
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