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  #1  
Old 2004-02-07, 05:45
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Evolution (off topic from pretty names thread)

Homo Sapien roughly means "Wise Man"

I often thought a more approperate name would be "Arrogant Man"
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  #2  
Old 2004-02-07, 15:17
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Homo Sapiens are humans, in BG&E they are still humans and thus Homo Sapiens.

Atresica was refering to when we evolve into something else.
We done yet know what they will be because the evolutionary factors at the moment are quite small.
If in a few thousand years we start to leave the planet, the new enviroment of space will probably have an effect on our evolution.
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  #3  
Old 2004-02-07, 18:35
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If "Sapiens" means "wise" then I don't think Grobos should be called "Elphas Sapiens".
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  #4  
Old 2004-02-07, 18:55
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Dont you usually put the latin names like this:
<Kin (is this the rightenglish word?)> <Specie> <Race>
as in Homo Sapiens Sapiens. But that doesnt make sense since that would mean that there is a race of homo sapiens called sapiens. What race would that be? Would that be us? What is the neanderthals called in latin?
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  #5  
Old 2004-02-07, 20:28
prone2accidents prone2accidents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
If in a few thousand years we start to leave the planet, the new enviroment of space will probably have an effect on our evolution.
By that time I doubt that our evolution will still be determined by nature with the rate of technological progression and all.


Latin name of Neanderthals: Homo neanderthalensis (or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis)

The name refers to where the first neanderthal was found so it means something along the lines of 'man from the neander valley'.

So I think you might as well call them whatever you like e.g Quetch - Homo caesariesei crinis
which hopefully (my knowledge of latain is virtually non exsisstant) means something like 'Man with a bad pony tail"
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Last edited by prone2accidents; 2004-02-07 at 21:58.
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  #6  
Old 2004-02-07, 20:36
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Evolution is about to get a revolution IMO. Now that they cracked the DNA code, genetic engineering is very close. Evolution will never be the same for us humans again.
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  #7  
Old 2004-02-07, 23:40
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Evolution, is by diffinition really determained by nature.
If we mess about with genetics, which we probably will do, thats something else.

Also, the very fact of living in space will probably cause generation1 mutations, but they will be mearly artfacts of the enivorment rather then a perminate change in the genes.

ie.
I once saw a diagram of that a baby would look like growing in space.
Due to near zero graphity its limbs were elongated, and its face thinner.

There would be numberious health problems too, mainly brital bones.

However, we are incredably lucky that there isnt anything in the human body that fudimentaly stops us living in zero g
Amazing if you think of millions of years of evolution and we only have a passing need for gravity.
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Old 2004-02-08, 01:14
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I thought we could only live in zero G for like 6 months to a year, excersing daily, and still come out the worse for it, anything longer than that would probably seriously start to affect us.
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As her body lay askew and lifeless on the floor I did not weep
As freinds and relatives spoke so fondly of her I did not shed a tear
But as I saw her body lowered beaneth the ground I realised that it was over and she was gone.
I cried until I could cry no more.

Last edited by prone2accidents; 2004-02-08 at 01:29.
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  #9  
Old 2004-02-08, 01:25
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But those "6 months" are not due to any fundimental limit, its more just loads of little things that add up.
I can picture that perhapes we might have to do certain things each day to servive in space....like we brush our teeth each morning, maybe we will need to take calcium pills or something.
Human expirence in space has been extreamly limited so far...im sure most of the problems now will be solved fairly easily.

IMO, its amazing that nothing in our body needs gravity....i mean, even eating for goodness sake! That could so easy have evolved to require gravity.
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  #10  
Old 2004-02-08, 01:39
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it's splitting hairs but living in space is different to living in zero G because you could easily create a centrifugal gravity equivilant to, say, the lunar/martian gravity in a spaceship and live quite comfortably.

If you were to live in zero G then you'd have to spend a few hours excersing which is slighty longer than the time it takes to brush your teeth.

Eating soley reliant on gravity? how would that work when our ancestors spent half the time upside down and all around in differnet posistions in trees? Peristalsis is a safer way by far.
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As her body lay askew and lifeless on the floor I did not weep
As freinds and relatives spoke so fondly of her I did not shed a tear
But as I saw her body lowered beaneth the ground I realised that it was over and she was gone.
I cried until I could cry no more.
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  #11  
Old 2004-02-08, 09:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Evolution, is by diffinition really determained by nature.
If we mess about with genetics, which we probably will do, thats something else.

Also, the very fact of living in space will probably cause generation1 mutations, but they will be mearly artfacts of the enivorment rather then a perminate change in the genes.

ie.
I once saw a diagram of that a baby would look like growing in space.
Due to near zero graphity its limbs were elongated, and its face thinner.

There would be numberious health problems too, mainly brital bones.

However, we are incredably lucky that there isnt anything in the human body that fudimentaly stops us living in zero g
Amazing if you think of millions of years of evolution and we only have a passing need for gravity.
====
P2A~

Very good!
Sounds logical, in the future we have spaceshuttles with its own (earth like)G-force instead of using the G-force from space.

Maybe when we live in 25st century with PA1 like thinges, and we can survive with those devices a sabre attack wich normally cut or head off!
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  #12  
Old 2004-02-08, 15:02
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  #13  
Old 2004-02-08, 16:31
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Haha, the major religions say evolution is a hoax.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #14  
Old 2004-02-08, 16:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prone2accidents
it's splitting hairs but living in space is different to living in zero G because you could easily create a centrifugal gravity equivilant to, say, the lunar/martian gravity in a spaceship and live quite comfortably.
Yes it is splitting hairs.
Im sure we could form long term space habitats with gravity,but we first need to explore without that luxary.
Keeping stuff rotating stable really needs a constant energy source...at present that makes space travel too hard as we already have energy troubles when traveling far with probes.
(well, actualy, the problem is mater...we can get the energy no problem...but we need mater to chuck behind us...every action equals ect ect.
Ion drives and fusion helps, but we still need the mater)

It seems to me centrifugal style habitats will be most usefull as long term space stations....huge...long term spacestations that arnt designed to move much.


[QUOTE=
If you were to live in zero G then you'd have to spend a few hours excersing which is slighty longer than the time it takes to brush your teeth.
[/QUOTE]
Hours now, yes, but thats because theres been little research into it.
In relation to, say, earth health.
Im sure this could be reduce if more precise excerise's techiques were developed, perhapes in combinations with specific medicines or diets.

We may have to spend hours excercising, but we may also get time back because of things we dont have to do.
Ultra-clean enviroments might mean we have to wash less, for instance.
(as well as the need to conserve water).

Its more of a slight change in enviroment, rather then any fundimental limits.

Quote:
Eating soley reliant on gravity? how would that work when our ancestors spent half the time upside down and all around in differnet posistions in trees? Peristalsis is a safer way by far.
My point was we could have evolved so we needed to eat standing upright, with a vertical force doing down.
And its pretty safe to say no mater how far back you go in evolution terms, humans did speed the majoity of their lives one way up.
I believe many species of birds evolved like this, if i remember correctly.
They have to lift their heads to eat and let gravity do the work.

Numberious other parts of the body could have relied apon a downwards force, but they dont.
Take out ears, that balance fluid we have in them.
Without gravity that fluid just forms a nice little sphere of surface tension.
This could easily have messed our minds up if our body was less tolerent.

But they dont, somehow the little blob of fluid hovering in a sphere dosnt send us into a fit.
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Old 2004-02-08, 18:14
prone2accidents prone2accidents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Im sure we could form long term space habitats with gravity,but we first need to explore without that luxary.
Keeping stuff rotating stable really needs a constant energy source...at present that makes space travel too hard as we already have energy troubles when traveling far with probes.
(well, actualy, the problem is mater...we can get the energy no problem...but we need mater to chuck behind us...every action equals ect ect.
Ion drives and fusion helps, but we still need the mater)

It seems to me centrifugal style habitats will be most usefull as long term space stations....huge...long term spacestations that arnt designed to move much.
Well... you were talking about a few thousand years from now by which time things like fusion reactors and ion drives will probably seem ludicrously crude when we could just warp space faster than light or open a wormhole to the other side of the universe or whatever.

However if you're talking in the more day after tomorrow sense then feul is a problem. I read somewhere about using fision reactor to super heat water for feul. Mars (probably) and the Jovian system (namely Europa) both contain supplies of water which might possibly allow us to use this method. Then a ship would only have take enough water to make a single trip and could refeul when they arrive at the destination. Of course if fusion drives are around at the time you could do a similar thing except that you would only have to extract the hydrogen from the water.
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As her body lay askew and lifeless on the floor I did not weep
As freinds and relatives spoke so fondly of her I did not shed a tear
But as I saw her body lowered beaneth the ground I realised that it was over and she was gone.
I cried until I could cry no more.
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  #16  
Old 2004-02-08, 19:13
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A few thousand years, yes, easily.
I was thinking more near-term space travel though.
The steps needed to get to that stage, though, would require multiple centurys of less comfortable space travel without gravity.

If your interested in "generation ships", I designed one ages ago:
http://www.darkflame.co.uk/BOJ/Desig...n_Mollusc.html


As for using fusion, water could be usefull in a dual function:
http://www.darkflame.co.uk/BOJ/Desig...loCrusier.html
(another design i made many years ago)
==
The most likely form of fuel effient travel is likely to happen in the next century might be anti-mater fusion hybred engines.
You only need a tiny amount of antimater to give fusion engines a huge boast in thrust.
Of course, we would need to hugely scale up production of the stuff, and better storage would have to be developed.
However, its well withen our technology reach using existing materials and methods

(unlike warp drive, which would probably require stuff with negative mass, quantom singularitys and all many of strange things )
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  #17  
Old 2004-02-08, 22:16
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Originally Posted by Anakin
Haha, the major religions say evolution is a hoax.
No they don't. Mainline/Catholic/liberal Christians believe in it. So do many Muslims. And Buddists.
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  #18  
Old 2004-02-08, 22:44
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Well, most religions allow their followers to believe it or not these days.

Its like:
"God created the world!!"
And then they try to keep their mouth shut over the specific method he used
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
Well, most religions allow their followers to believe it or not these days.

Its like:
"God created the world!!"
And then they try to keep their mouth shut over the specific method he used
Yes, because some see evolution as a process created by God, and since God knows his processes inside out, he knew what would come of evolution. I find it more amazing to think a creator would have set this all out from an initial big bang then to think he did it in 7 days.
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Old 2004-02-09, 07:50
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No,

Christianity believes in the Story of Creation, which means they believe Adam and Eve just popped out of the ground like daisies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #21  
Old 2004-02-09, 07:54
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Originally Posted by Anakin
No,

Christianity believes in the Story of Creation, which means they believe Adam and Eve just popped out of the ground like daisies.
*sigh*...yes, and like many stories in the Old Testement, Christians look at the POINT behind the story, what it is trying to tell us, and don't take it as literal truth on how the world was created. And you can throw as many fundi sites as you want at me, but the point remains that the majority of Christians (mainly Catholics) accept evolution.
And the Islamic story of creation is the same, except God didn't rest on the 7th day.
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Old 2004-02-09, 10:11
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Quote:
majority of Christians (mainly Catholics) accept evolution.
Better insert, except in America there.
The majoity over there belief its a "literal truth" still.
At least, last time i saw a survay...which was quite awhile ago.
I think they still believe its a literal truth because the alternative, evolution, is sometimes badly miss-represented or understod.
(ie, i have heard the argument "If we came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys? it makes no sense!" )
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Old 2004-02-09, 14:42
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Quote:
If we came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys? it makes no sense!
roflmfao
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Old 2004-02-09, 16:54
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I've heard that argument too actually


----
CS2X --> So, what is the Story of Creation REALLY trying to tell us then?
(btw, also judism has an entire proffesion of finding out the secret meaning in these stories, that doesn't mean I believe in what they're saying either)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #25  
Old 2004-02-09, 17:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
I've heard that argument too actually


----
CS2X --> So, what is the Story of Creation REALLY trying to tell us then?
(btw, also judism has an entire proffesion of finding out the secret meaning in these stories, that doesn't mean I believe in what they're saying either)
The Creation story tell us God created the world. By what means, is not relevant, and the primitive tribes back then would not understand evolution, would they? It tells us we slowly are abandoning/abandoned God and his moral laws. Just like the story of Noah's ark is simply an early explination of what the Messiah would represent-an ark to rescue us from death IF we merely choose to accept it. It's not meant to be taken literally.
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