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  #1  
Old 2004-03-11, 16:57
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Mini OS

A neat little OS I found:
http://www.menuetos.org/

Some might already have heard of this, but for the rest heres a brief discription.

Fits on a floopy, boats straight from it, dosnt have to put anything on your HD.
Opensource,very fast, and a supprisely good interface.

Id recomend everyone get a copy of this NOW, so that next time windows fucks up you gota a tempory way to access your data

Also, future versions of the software will include a Web Browsers, MP3 player and IRC client.


Personaly i found it worked excelently on my first test.
Only a few settings to pick before loading up, all pretty obvious.

I couldnt actualy manage to access my HD on it first time, butI simply didnt have the settings correct.
(Note, it only rads Fat32 at the moment)
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  #2  
Old 2004-03-11, 18:12
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Cool - sounds sweet - will have to go get a copy for when Windows inevitably next destroys my PC
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  #3  
Old 2004-03-11, 18:43
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That's cool, but nothing outstanding, really... it's not hard to do the same with Linux or another suitable OS.
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  #4  
Old 2004-03-11, 19:16
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Nice, but for example a Linux-distro-on-a-floppy isn't really new. To add a GUI with it must have been pretty hard though.

Knoppix (Linux distro on bootable cd) appears to be really good, with great hardware auto-detection. I believe there's also a special 'recovery' edition with a lot of tools to fix stuff (viruses, crashed hdd, stupid Windows). The standard edition comes with tools that makes it possible to crack someone's Windows 2000/XP password, which is cool if you want to r00t the box with physical access to the pc without taking the hdd out

Mandrake has a special edition of their Linux distribution for sale which also boots from a cd, but they've added a USB memorystick with it for your personal files and settings.

I think I would perfer a really extended OS on a CD than a just-enough weird distro from a floppy. Still pretty interesting though.

Oh yeah, and someone once succeeded in making a bootable Win98 cd. (Not just the setup, but it loaded the OS in realtime.)
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  #5  
Old 2004-03-11, 20:09
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Its *not* Unix based so, thats the cool thing.

Totaly assembly, as such, its faster then just about anything else

Knoppix, is, of course, excelent.
But a CD is a lot of space.
1.4MB isnt
Especialy as it has lots of pointless tech demos.
Im sure they could have a lot more features.
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  #6  
Old 2004-03-11, 20:24
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Yeah, I saw it's not *nix based, but that only makes it even less usable I think. I don't think it supports much hardware (it has PPP and 'ethernet cards' (which ones?) support appearently though). Not to mention the inability to use some very powerful basic Linux tools.

The demo scene is one very different branch of nerd hobbies
I once had a ton of those 64 KB demo's for some contests, it's really amazing what visuals and audio they can put into that.
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  #7  
Old 2004-03-11, 21:47
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Yeah, what wacko said. Being Linux based is a huge advantage, needless to say why; Linux is a mature kernel with great hardware support, etc, etc.

The LiveCD scene is extremely developed and more and more astonishing every day. If you think a CD is too big, take a look at distros like Damn Small Linux, which brings an excellently usable Linux system in a business-card CD.

Here is a list with small distros (usually Mini-CD and business-card CD), and here is another with floppy-sized distros.
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  #8  
Old 2004-03-11, 22:28
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Linux is based on C, however.
Because of that it, like Windows, is slow compared to this.

You shouldnt critise it mearly for not being Unix based.

Heck, thats as JUST as bad as saying "Linux isnt as good as windows because its not as compatble"

Menuetos compatibility will improve, as far as i tell its still really being pushed by one person.

For me at least, it worked 100% fine with my moniter in full colour and resolution, worked fine with my mouse and accessed my Fat32 drive ok.
It supported multiple layers and transparent windows, and successfully accessed and played a Wav file.
(and opened text files)

Now,I havnt seen anything on a disk that can do anywhere near this much stuff.

It remains to be seen just how compatble it is with modems, networks cards ect.
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Last edited by Darkflame; 2004-03-11 at 22:34.
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  #9  
Old 2004-03-11, 22:51
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Being based on C won't really make a difference in a system with this size. MenuetOS must be like 10% faster than a standard Linux distro of that kind. 10% slower, considering the amount of benefits you have with a Linux system, is nothing.

I can criticize it for not being Unix based because Unix is something that has been going on for more than 20 years. The amount of applications written for is enormous, and so is the user-base. What if you wanted to play an OGG file with MenuetOS? Or do anything that the system does not support? You would have to write your own software for that. By using a POSIX implementation (*nix), you could use any compatible program.

In those lists I posted, you can find simmilar examples. Look, I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it seems very cool and it's admirable that one person created it. It also seems very suitable for studying and analyzing the proccess of creating an OS, in the same way that Minix is. I'm just stating that Linux can do all of that, that it's not new, using the opportunity to do some Linux propaganda.
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  #10  
Old 2004-03-12, 04:08
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I looked at the list, and there are some impressive things.
But i have yet to find something equal to this.

And yes, your pro-linux arguments are very much like pro-windows ones.
Why changes when we got an established well supported system? ect ect.

You change when its fundimentaly better.
10% really is quite a lot. (allthough i suspect it has the potiental for a much more signifanct increase).

Too really test the systems proformance i would really need a lower spec system
I highly suspect this OS, if encoraged and properly developed could actualy evolved into something important.
Would it revil windows or linux? no.

But you might just find it, or something like it completely replaces the BIOS system.
I mean, imagine boating straight into this withen split seconds.
Fully possible if they put this code direct on a chip.

The computer could then autoboot to a full Operating system, or you could chose to use this to edit settings, possible check email and other basic functions.

I dont know about you, but i frequently boot my computer up, check email, shut it down. The boot up and shutdown sequences take many times longer then the useage, which, imo is just stupid.


Heck, maybe you could have this OS running WHILE your booting your main OS

(especialy as i read IBM is developing chips capable of actualy multitasking 2 OS's....)
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  #11  
Old 2004-03-12, 16:34
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I won't search for examples in that list, but I'm sure you'll find something that can do every single thing MinuetOS does.

My pro-linux arguments are different; this is too different to compare. I'm talking about the benefits of having a mature operational system over this one, in a floppy disk. You still don't seem to get my point. In a floppy disk, you'd never be able to get a fully working Windows system, but you are capable of getting a fully working Linux system. With that, let's say, you would be able to access your Linux partition and run any programs from it. I.E., the number of things you can do is limited by the amount of programs developed for *NIX. Needless to say that's better than being limited by the amount of programs developed for MenuetOS. You change when it's fundamentally better. Linux is fundamentally better than MenuetOS in every possible way. I doubt anyone but you would rather have a 10% extra of speed in an obscure and usupported OS than having Linux but being 10% slower.

Also, MenuetOS is not the only alternative OS around. ReactOS is something that may become extremely important in the future, SkyOS and RiscOS are also admirable, and there're others.

The BIOS replacing idea you mentioned has been implemented by some people, and I have read about experiences of people doing that with Linux. It is very possible and ass-kicking, of course.

Having two OSs running at the same time is not hard, as there is VMWare, but I'm not very sure of what you meant..
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  #12  
Old 2004-03-12, 19:01
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Quote:
My pro-linux arguments are different; this is too different to compare.
hmz..

Quote:
I can criticize it for not being Unix based because Unix is something that has been going on for more than 20 years. The amount of applications written for is enormous, and so is the user-base. What if you wanted to play an OGG file with MenuetOS? .
No, sorry. They are not too different to compare, they are practicaly identical.

Its just a question of scale.
MenuetOS is to Linux as Linux is to Windows.

The ammount of applications written for Windows is enormous when compared to Linux. What if you wanted to play a WMA file in Linux?
ect. ect.

Quote:
You change when it's fundamentally better. Linux is fundamentally better than MenuetOS in every possible way.]
why is it fundemantally better?

"Its better supported" is not an argument, and its especialy not an argument that should be comming out of a Linux user!

No,its the other way around.
MenuetOS *is* fundimentaly better due to it being written in the lowest level possible of coding. This 10% you plucked out of the air is very significant because it effects EVERYTHING done on the machine.

Linux may be better because it been around longer,developed further, but that dosnt make it fundimentaly better.

Quote:
The BIOS replacing idea you mentioned has been implemented by some people, and I have read about experiences of people doing that with Linux. It is very possible and ass-kicking, of course.
Links please?

I will be very impressed indeed if they managed to get the C based Linux encoded onto a computer chip and to have it load as fast as a Bios does.

Sure they didnt write it as some sort of software overlay?
That runs very fast at boot-up?
Still impressive, of course, but that would be something a bit different.


Quote:
Also, MenuetOS is not the only alternative OS around.
Never said it was.
Mearly that its the most impressive i have seen as far as codeing,speed, and FileSize/Support goes.

SkyOS ill look into.
RiscOS, well, to be honest i never found the OS that impressive.
Seemed quite slow at file operations. Wasnt it designed for AM7 chips or such? Might see it return for Mobile phones are starting to use those chips.



Quote:
Having two OSs running at the same time is not hard, as there is VMWare, but I'm not very sure of what you meant..
Task switching between *real* OS's in real time.
Correct me if am wrong but isnt WMWare mearly an emulation layer to keep stuff seperate?

IBM's chip they were developing could handel 2 different OS's running at the same time.
So you could, say, Run Linux and Switch to windows in real time when you need to use a certain bit of unsupported software.
Neither of the OS's would need to know of the others existance, and they wouldnt have to be designed for dual use either.

Of course, it remains to be seen if Microsoft will bribe IBM to stop developing it.
I mean, all the "anti-trust" shit microsoft wants in LongHorn will be very easy to get around by switching to Linux whenever you need too.
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  #13  
Old 2004-03-12, 19:05
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Miniature BIOS systems that only points to the OS which handles the rest do exist, it's called OpenFirmware, used for years in alternative architectures (IBM RISC and I think Macs have a similar system), and might make a comeback in current mainstream computers.
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  #14  
Old 2004-03-12, 19:36
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Quote:
No, sorry. They are not too different to compare, they are practicaly identical.

Its just a question of scale.
MenuetOS is to Linux as Linux is to Windows.
Not really. MenuetOS is er, to a DOS bootdisk (or vice-versa) as a DOS bootdisk is to a GNU/Linux bootdisk. It is not a reliable or complete operational system. You can't dream of comparing it to Linux. That's bullshit. The difference between the kernels' features is insanely huge.

Quote:
The ammount of applications written for Windows is enormous when compared to Linux. What if you wanted to play a WMA file in Linux?
ect. ect.
I can do that easily by using Xine or Mplayer. Be more specific about the 'ect. ect', please? You seem to be ignorant about what I can or can not do with Linux.

Quote:
why is it fundemantally better?

"Its better supported" is not an argument, and its especialy not an argument that should be comming out of a Linux user!
Why not?

Quote:
No,its the other way around.
MenuetOS *is* fundimentaly better due to it being written in the lowest level possible of coding. This 10% you plucked out of the air is very significant because it effects EVERYTHING done on the machine.

Linux may be better because it been around longer,developed further, but that dosnt make it fundimentaly better.
Indeed, I plucked it out of the air. I was too generous with ASM. You seem to underestimate the speed of C. From a /. quote: "C is a language with the flexibility and speed of assembly combined with the ease of use of assembly". There's a difference between having a <1MB kernel written in ASM and a 40MB kernel written in ASM. 40MB being a size big enough to support everything today's kernels do. I think it'd be stratospheric work, actually it would never work out. As far as I understand, MenuetOS does not have the purpose to compete with Windows or Linux, I think you're giving it a purpose it doesn't want.

VMware creates a Virtual Machine where the OS of choice can be installed. Using an OS through VMWare is using a *real* OS for that matter, in real time. Check the website if you have doubts. IBM's thing sounds nice, let's wait and see.
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