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  #26  
Old 2004-09-16, 21:59
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
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Quote:
IMO that's the same as shutting down the company and keeping the licenses.
The point was that skill isnt rewarded anymore.
The whole benifits of compeition vanish as soon as you allow companys from one field to buy their way into another.

Whether Sony has movie-makeing skills is irrelivent.
The point is they dont nesscerly have it.
The point you keep missing is the general one: If you are good at one thing, it dosnt mean your good at something else.

Successfull companys get to the top because they make a killer product.
Sony Walkmen, probably was the most important factor in their rise and i wouldnt argue at all they deserved success because of it.
It was a successfull product because it filled a gap in the market.

But why should makeing the Walkmen put them at the top of completely different industarys?

Quote:
Well, you'd rather have that - the company itself wouldn't. I couldn't care less.
Company itself wouldnt?
Oh, sure, thousands of people out of work are going to be VERY happy arnt they?
People that have worked their the majoity of their lifes are going to be oh-so-happy.

The shareholders will be happy, sure.

Sony just want the liesences, they dont care about anything else.
James Bond will become an exclusive playstation brand, which allthough i personaly dont care about, will non-the-less help sale more consoles to casual brand-buying gamers.
And more consoles sold=more cash=buy more companys.
And so on, And so on.

Quote:
That's all your personal opinion.
In my opinion Sony has good-quality products. I can't complain about the Sony products I have - they were all worth the money. My Playstation was cheaper than the rival product (N64), and I definitely don't regret buying it (I like one N64 game, but 30+ PS games. Also, PS games are much cheaper than N64 games).
I didn't buy the Playstation because of marketing (Sony marketing is, by the way, nonexistent here, unlike Nintendo marketing). I bought it because it's a great console. For me, it got to the top because it was the superior product. I honestly believe it's much better than the N64.
My love of many N64 games is a personal view, yes, Ocarina of time, Mario, ect. Sure.
But the hardware is a little less subjective.

And also, what of all the others?
Saturn, Jaguar, 3DO ect.

There was shitloads of machines at that time.
The Playstation was sucessfull because of marketing.

Sure it has killer games, but they came after it was successfull.
Publishers just go for the most successfull machine, so naturely it got loads of games.
You cant say the ps1 was successfull because of the games, because thats a circlar arguments.

"(Sony marketing is, by the way, nonexistent here, unlike Nintendo marketing). "

Well, you live in a freakish place because Sony spend many factors more on marketing.

Also, dont confuse why you personaly got the system with why it was successfull.
For the majoirty, it was marketing, it was "cool", sony convienced people that it was somehow "mature".
(even though all games consoles are just Toys)

From a hardware point of view, the Playstation offered nothing new.
Everyone else at the time was trying stuff, Nintendos controlls, Segas weird but mostly pointless add-ons.
Heck, if the Jagaur was a success we would have been online and with virtual headsets a long time ago.

If you think the playstation had better games, fine, thats subjective so i wont argue.
But i am puzzled if you think the hardware was suppiour
I strongly support inovation, but i saw none contribute to Sonys success in the games market.

Quote:
They have the right to apply this technique, if they're allowed to.
umm...thats a rather non-meaningfull statement.
My argument is that the attitudes and actions of these companys will lead to huge consumer problems in the future.
"they have the right to if they are allowed to" is like, duh.

Im talking about what should be allowed, not what is.


Also, stop all this "Economics has no morals,".
Im talking about the benifits to society, and society has morals.
Im talking about what should be done to insure economic health and technological advancement in the future.
I mean, come on. "Economics has no morals" ?
What is that supposed to mean?
How does it counter my points?
Is everything all fine just because "Economics has no morals" ?
wow...ill sleep safer tonight now i know that, thank you


Quote:
Yes, so?
Please, dont post stuff like "yeah, so"...i like to have decent discusions and that sort of thing is just a waste of time
You well know what my point is.


Quote:
In my opinion it probably won't happen, so I won't try to prevent it.
I asked for a reason why
In all of this people have yet to explain why they think this is nonsense.
What process will ensure that the merging and takeovers will stop?

You at least have given a decent counter-argument to me, rather then dissmissing with a meaningless name. But I would appricate the reasons why you are comfident this wont happen.


Also, If you probably think something wont happen, so you wont try to prevent it, dosnt that make it more likely to happen?

Quote:
They'll step in when those companies are no longer making benefits for them.
Indeed.
But Govements arnt normaly the best at seeing whats going to happen.
They will step in when they see problems to their cash flow....but by then it will be hard to recover easily.

Quote:
I buy whatever is good for me. If a "convergence" product happens to fit in that rule, then I'll surely buy it.
But what is "good for you"?
A product might look attractive from a list of specs,but have you heard the saying:
"dont put all your eggs in one basket".
Short term consumer benifits that will be had with convergance devices are basicaly "looks nice and fits a smaller space"
Trust me, convergance devices benifit the companys much more then the consumer which is precisely why its more likely to happen.
But that dosnt make it a good thing.

Quote:
If I don't like a company, it's because I think the company has shitty products, not because I find their market moves immoral. Economics has no morals, the sole purpose is to make money. I don't dislike Microsoft because Microsoft has a monopoly, I dislike Microsoft because I think MS Windows is a sorry excuse for an OS, because MSIE is the worst browser ever and because I think their programmers are mostly fucking clueless.
So you will be happy when they have a monopoly over loads of other industarys too will you?
This is my point. Clueless companys makeing inferiour products can be successfull.

I cant believe you can say something like that, and then repeat that you are happy to see them take over other markets.
Microsoft is a success now, not because they make the best product, but because they have a standerd format.

Heck, I hate windows, and i well know its programed horribly and i should switch to something else.
But I use it because the software I need runs on it.
This is, the same reason most people use it. (as you know)

And its the same reason why Microsoft is a very dangerous company that should not be allowed to use its vaste wealth to buy up other industarys.
Microsoft can afford for the Xbox's 2,3,4,5 ect too all flop.
But maybe when they release the 6th one they would have bought up all the other games companys so people will be forced to get it, or else have nothing to play.

Same could go for movies, or just about anything else.
Megacompanys limits consumer choice, and will in the logn run result if explotive prices due to the reduced compition.

So, sure, dont care, now. Be happy that your films, games, phone,and music are all comeing from the same company.

One day you might see the problems with it.
=======
Quote:
If I had money, I would spend it.
Its not the spending money, its what they are spending it ON.
If Sony spent that 6 billion on research and development to make some kick-arse game, or some amazing new hardware device i would be very happy.
Inovation, invention.
Those are what companys should spend their money on, not spreading.
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  #27  
Old 2004-09-16, 22:11
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Panda Panda is offline
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I understand how you feel, but put yourself in Sony's position. They want to make as much money as possible. By buying MGM, they have ultimately increased profits. If I were the President of Sony (Sony... ShinRa... same first letter ) I know I would try to expand as much as possible. Most Sony products are pretty decent, also. Only thing I moan about is the shitty design of the first PS2s which were a load of wank. Otherwise, Sony is a top notch company, with many decent ideas. Give it a chance. They can't be doing such a bad job if people buy their products and give them money.
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  #28  
Old 2004-09-16, 23:40
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But they could always try to make what they are already good at better, instead of expanding into other areas.

Info: When I was a kid my dream work was business empire builder, btw, I wanted my logo to be on all kinds of products, toothpaste, TVs, computers, raisins, etc. Got inspiration from Donald Duck comics, which I was a frequent reader of.

Now, I have better morals. (I think)

(I didnt write that to try to make a point or anything)
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  #29  
Old 2004-09-17, 00:04
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Wow...okay, let's look to the deeper point.

Sony and Microsoft are taking over the world.

We'd better go hide under our beds now.

[/sarcasm]

Again, I side with Medur. I really don't see Sony taking over MGM as something bad - MGM was for sale, and Sony has the money to buy it. I don't think Sony puts out inferior products, though you say so. If that is true...how come the Sony DVD player I just bought for $89 USD, in comparison to a Panasonic model for $89 USD, has more features than any other comperable model? How come it has a better warranty? Why does it have a 12-bit graphics processor, as opposed to the industry standard of 10?

Again, we can look to game consoles and compare if you want. Sony released the PS2. So it's the weakest of the three consoles...big whoop. Sony's console has reverse compatability, something GCN and X-Box (for obvious reasons, though maybe they could have modded it to play PC games?) don't have. Sony has the option to play online, yet GCN hasn't really gotten their online off the ground (unless I'm mistaken?).

Somehow, I just can't agree with your idea that Sony, because they are purchasing a film company that was for sale anyways (it's not as if they just came along and said "We'd like to buy MGM today," the company has been for sale a few times since the 70's).

I think I'll go hug a Sony now.
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  #30  
Old 2004-09-17, 01:06
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Medur Medur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame
The point was that skill isnt rewarded anymore.
The whole benifits of compeition vanish as soon as you allow companys from one field to buy their way into another.

Whether Sony has movie-makeing skills is irrelivent.
The point is they dont nesscerly have it.
The point you keep missing is the general one: If you are good at one thing, it dosnt mean your good at something else.
But what if you are good at something else? Why can't there be a company that's able to have high quality standards in everything?

Quote:
Successfull companys get to the top because they make a killer product.
Sony Walkmen, probably was the most important factor in their rise and i wouldnt argue at all they deserved success because of it.
It was a successfull product because it filled a gap in the market.

But why should makeing the Walkmen put them at the top of completely different industarys?
Well, I read some other guy patented an invention simmilar to the walkman before Sony did, so they weren't all that creative. Hohoho.
Anyhow, why should it? Because they got money from it, and money allows them to do that.

Quote:
Company itself wouldnt?
Oh, sure, thousands of people out of work are going to be VERY happy arnt they?
People that have worked their the majoity of their lifes are going to be oh-so-happy.

The shareholders will be happy, sure.
Yeah, the shareholders will be happy. But THEY are doing this, not Sony. The villain here, by your argumentation, would be MGM, not Sony.

Quote:
Sony just want the liesences, they dont care about anything else.
James Bond will become an exclusive playstation brand, which allthough i personaly dont care about, will non-the-less help sale more consoles to casual brand-buying gamers.
And more consoles sold=more cash=buy more companys.
And so on, And so on.
Yes.

Quote:
My love of many N64 games is a personal view, yes, Ocarina of time, Mario, ect. Sure.
But the hardware is a little less subjective.
Hardware doesn't matter for me. My computer is a K6-2 350 Mhz. I care about games.

Quote:
And also, what of all the others?
Saturn, Jaguar, 3DO ect.

There was shitloads of machines at that time.
The Playstation was sucessfull because of marketing.
The Saturn games didn't use the console's full potential, the Jaguar wasn't a good console (did you ever look at its controller?), and Panasonic didn't know how to make their console survive. In my opinion there were 2 major competitors, Nintendo and Sony.

Quote:
Sure it has killer games, but they came after it was successfull.
Publishers just go for the most successfull machine, so naturely it got loads of games.
You cant say the ps1 was successfull because of the games, because thats a circlar arguments.
Actually, no. From what I've read, the Playstation had a quite obscure and slow start - it exploded after Namco released Ridge Racer, which was like the killer racing game for its time. Only then the Playstation became really popular.

Quote:
"(Sony marketing is, by the way, nonexistent here, unlike Nintendo marketing). "

Well, you live in a freakish place because Sony spend many factors more on marketing.
Doesn't happen in here. Actually, the Playstation was never officially released in South America, you can only import it.

Quote:
Also, dont confuse why you personaly got the system with why it was successfull.
For the majoirty, it was marketing, it was "cool", sony convienced people that it was somehow "mature".
(even though all games consoles are just Toys)
Well, I wouldn't know. What matters to me is my own personal view.

Quote:
From a hardware point of view, the Playstation offered nothing new.
Everyone else at the time was trying stuff, Nintendos controlls, Segas weird but mostly pointless add-ons.
Heck, if the Jagaur was a success we would have been online and with virtual headsets a long time ago.
If, if, if. You can never know.

Quote:
If you think the playstation had better games, fine, thats subjective so i wont argue.
But i am puzzled if you think the hardware was suppiour
I strongly support inovation, but i saw none contribute to Sonys success in the games market.
As I said, the hardware doesn't matter for me.

Quote:
umm...thats a rather non-meaningfull statement.
My argument is that the attitudes and actions of these companys will lead to huge consumer problems in the future.
"they have the right to if they are allowed to" is like, duh.

Im talking about what should be allowed, not what is.
My point is that I don't believe in what "should" be allowed. I don't believe in moral attachments in economy.

Quote:
Also, stop all this "Economics has no morals,".
Im talking about the benifits to society, and society has morals.
Im talking about what should be done to insure economic health and technological advancement in the future.
I mean, come on. "Economics has no morals" ?
What is that supposed to mean?
How does it counter my points?
Is everything all fine just because "Economics has no morals" ?
wow...ill sleep safer tonight now i know that, thank you
You're welcome.
I'm an immoral son of a bitch, and I don't care about society or anything else. That seems to happen with 100% of people involved in economics. The truth is that our morality doesn't matter in economy, and you just refuse to accept that. That's fine, it's your choice, but please don't act as if my arguments have no value because of it.

Quote:
Please, dont post stuff like "yeah, so"...i like to have decent discusions and that sort of thing is just a waste of time
You well know what my point is.
This discussion is a waste of time. I'm only discussing because I have way too much free time.

Quote:
I asked for a reason why
In all of this people have yet to explain why they think this is nonsense.
What process will ensure that the merging and takeovers will stop?

You at least have given a decent counter-argument to me, rather then dissmissing with a meaningless name. But I would appricate the reasons why you are comfident this wont happen.
Honestly? I don't know if it's gonna happen, and I personally don't care. I'm this disilluded. But you can say that for the same reason why I'm confident the sky won't fall over my head.

Quote:
Also, If you probably think something wont happen, so you wont try to prevent it, dosnt that make it more likely to happen?
The fact is that I wouldn't care if it happened with Sony. I like Sony.

Quote:
Indeed.
But Govements arnt normaly the best at seeing whats going to happen.
They will step in when they see problems to their cash flow....but by then it will be hard to recover easily.
Yes.

Quote:
But what is "good for you"?
A product might look attractive from a list of specs,but have you heard the saying:
"dont put all your eggs in one basket".
Short term consumer benifits that will be had with convergance devices are basicaly "looks nice and fits a smaller space"
Trust me, convergance devices benifit the companys much more then the consumer which is precisely why its more likely to happen.
But that dosnt make it a good thing.
Well, I'll have to get back to you on that, as I haven't yet bought a convergence product and I don't know.

Quote:
So you will be happy when they have a monopoly over loads of other industarys too will you?
This is my point. Clueless companys makeing inferiour products can be successfull.

I cant believe you can say something like that, and then repeat that you are happy to see them take over other markets.
Microsoft is a success now, not because they make the best product, but because they have a standerd format.
My point is that I hate Microsoft for a reason, but that doesn't happen with Sony, because I happen to like Sony's products. The day I find their products crappy will be the day I'll stop buying them.

Quote:
Heck, I hate windows, and i well know its programed horribly and i should switch to something else.
But I use it because the software I need runs on it.
This is, the same reason most people use it. (as you know)
Yes, and I don't need to use it, so I don't.

Quote:
And its the same reason why Microsoft is a very dangerous company that should not be allowed to use its vaste wealth to buy up other industarys.
Microsoft can afford for the Xbox's 2,3,4,5 ect too all flop.
But maybe when they release the 6th one they would have bought up all the other games companys so people will be forced to get it, or else have nothing to play.

Same could go for movies, or just about anything else.
Megacompanys limits consumer choice, and will in the logn run result if explotive prices due to the reduced compition.

So, sure, dont care, now. Be happy that your films, games, phone,and music are all comeing from the same company.

One day you might see the problems with it.
These are all assumptions. They are as valuable as Nostradamus predictions or any predictions for that matter.

Quote:
Its not the spending money, its what they are spending it ON.
If Sony spent that 6 billion on research and development to make some kick-arse game, or some amazing new hardware device i would be very happy.
Inovation, invention.
Those are what companys should spend their money on, not spreading.
Utopically, yes. Unfortunately, we're greedy humans.
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  #31  
Old 2004-09-18, 17:20
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
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Quote:
But what if you are good at something else? Why can't there be a company that's able to have high quality standards in everything?
In that case they should start from stratch.
Let their inventive/high quality product reach the top of the market naturely, rather then using existing money.
With megacompanys there is no chance for an inventive small company to reach the top, money speaks more then invention.

Quote:
Well, I read some other guy patented an invention simmilar to the walkman before Sony did, so they weren't all that creative. Hohoho.
Anyhow, why should it? Because they got money from it, and money allows them to do that
Thanks for another point against sony then.
--
Just because they are allowed too dosnt make it good for the consumer.
I have said this many times now, and wont repeat it.

You keep getting mixed up with "is" and "should".
And im sorry, but not everything that goes on in this world is ok mearly because it DOES go on.
That isnt an argument.

Quote:
Yeah, the shareholders will be happy. But THEY are doing this, not Sony. The villain here, by your argumentation, would be MGM, not Sony.
Bad choices by MGM ensured they had to be put up for sale.
But that dosnt mean they wanted to be closed down.

Sony is dangerous because they are controlling too much,they are the "villian" for being makeing money the easy way.
(liesence flogging and takeovers)
instead of the hard way.
(invention and progress)

Quote:
Hardware doesn't matter for me. My computer is a K6-2 350 Mhz. I care about games.
So you dont use a Dual Shock Pad then?
Hardware is way more then just specs.
In fact, specs is probably the least import part of hardware design,imo. I would agree with that.
Hardware in my mind is more physical.

Quote:
The Saturn games didn't use the console's full potential, the Jaguar wasn't a good console (did you ever look at its controller?), and Panasonic didn't know how to make their console survive. In my opinion there were 2 major competitors, Nintendo and Sony.
None of those reached their full pontiel precisely because they wernt successfull.
If more people got them, then support would have been better.
At the start, they were equaly supported.
Marketing made the playstation rise and thus it "got its full potential".

Quote:
Actually, no. From what I've read, the Playstation had a quite obscure and slow start - it exploded after Namco released Ridge Racer, which was like the killer racing game for its time. Only then the Playstation became really popular.
Nope, PS1 sold shitloads from day 1, it had a many month head start on the N64 which they used to their advantage.
Ridge Racer certainly helped, but the other consoles all had their own awsume games.
Jag had Tempest2000, Alien VS Preditor and (for the time) a nice version of Doom.

Playstation was a success because of its image, nothing more.

Quote:
As I said, the hardware doesn't matter for me.
I repeat, do you still use a digital pad then?
Or one with some analogue sticks.
How about force-feedback?
Of course, your still stuck with only 2 controll ports and no decent wireless pad anyway.
Hardware maters more then you realise.
The only hardware inovation i have seen from Sony is the eye-toy, which is pretty cool. But it came wayyyy after then are successfull, and is still far too little given how powerfull they are.

Quote:
Doesn't happen in here. Actually, the Playstation was never officially released in South America, you can only import it.
Well, that explains it
Still, dont they advertise other stuff?
We get all sorts of sony adverts.

Quote:
My point is that I don't believe in what "should" be allowed. I don't believe in moral attachments in economy.
So you dont believe companys should be controlled in any way?
You believe its ok for them to do anything because they dont have "moral attachments" ?

Quote:
Well, I wouldn't know. What matters to me is my own personal view.
Then you should open your eyes.
Take a larger look at the world.

Quote:
The truth is that our morality doesn't matter in economy, and you just refuse to accept that.


Morals mater everywhere.
Im sorry if you refuse to accept that.

Companys are made from people, people have morals.
Companys effect people, and people should be treated well.
Companys determain our future, our health as a society, and morals or no morals, megacompanys are unhealthy for everyone but the company in question.


Quote:
This discussion is a waste of time. I'm only discussing because I have way too much free time.
Then purhapes if we stop doing tit-for-tat remarks it might "waste" less of your time?

Quote:
Honestly? I don't know if it's gonna happen, and I personally don't care. I'm this disilluded. But you can say that for the same reason why I'm confident the sky won't fall over my head.
Theres no process that shows a sign of the sky falling down.
But there is a process i see that companys are merging and more, and i see no counter-process.
I admit it does sound far-fetched, but im just extrapolateing out the evidence i see at the moment.

At the moment it seems to be thus argument:

I think we are in danger of a mono-company society given long enough, due to the self-substaining spreading of large companys.

You think im wrong "because its far fetched".

I hope you can define your reasons better, because nothing is giving me comfidence that i could be wrong
In fact, seeing as the only anti-argument thus put forward is "govements will stop it", i am even more worried now then at the start of this thread


Quote:
The fact is that I wouldn't care if it happened with Sony. I like Sony.
So you wouldnt care that their would be NO 2D GAMES EVER AGAIN ?
Sony refuses to publish them at all these days.
If sony was that one company, then none would be published at all.

One company = One set of views = Less choice.
Its as simple as that.

Quote:
Well, I'll have to get back to you on that, as I haven't yet bought a convergence product and I don't know.
Come back to me when it breaks.
Convergance devices never work as well as seperate items.
Sometimes design requirements are mutaly exclusive.
(like a phone and a handheld games machine, as Nokia found out..allthough the SD is an improvement).

Theres many convigence devices at the moment..but they are mostly gimicks.
Camera phones, for instance.
They dont give you 1/100th the quality of a £5 disposible, or even a nice quality digital. There mostly just for "hay look, i took a photo of you on my phones isnt that sooo cool" ?
Its not just the magapixal count ever..the lens are too small, and of a lower standard.

Wireless modulisation, thats the key to usefull stuff ^_^
Eg, a high quality digital camera that wirelessly can connect and upload to your phone, or download to a printer.

This could be used not just for fun, but professionaly too. (currently profesional photographers set down with a laptop connect their camera and hope theres a wi-fi spot nearby)

If your camera breaks, replace it, same goes for the phone.
You wont have to chuck both away when they break.

Devices should work together for consumer benifit.
There should be standards. (SD Cards/DVDs, supported universaly)
Not formats just for one company (Memory/UDFs sticks, just for sony)

Quote:
My point is that I hate Microsoft for a reason, but that doesn't happen with Sony, because I happen to like Sony's products. The day I find their products crappy will be the day I'll stop buying them.
But then you might find you cant use what you like with your non-sony product.
You might find half the stuff you own incompatible, or theres no games on the new machine you got because sony has 99.9999% market share.

Quote:
Yes, and I don't need to use it, so I don't.
Lucky you.
Dont you ever feel bad then X Y or Z games or software arnt released on your format?
I know i do.
I love my gamecubes features (wavebird mainly) and first-party software.
But I would sure as hell like some of those nice 3rd party PS2 games.

A balanced market gives more choice for everyone.
If Microsoft didnt have such a huge market share, there would be far more stuff released on other/all OS's.

Quote:
These are all assumptions. They are as valuable as Nostradamus predictions or any predictions for that matter.
They are predictions based on trends i have seen.
Since no one has either dispute the trends, or come up with counter-factors, then it is logical to assume the trends will continue to their conclusion.

Predictions based on logic and observation are more likely to come true the other sorts.
All predictions are not all the same.
They predicted Pluto's existance, Half the elements in the periodic table, and numberious other things.
Look for paturns, see where they lead.

If you dispute the paturn, say so, if you think im missing some vital bit of evidence, tell me it!
But not dismise my predictions as useless without telling me the fault with my logic.

Quote:
Utopically, yes. Unfortunately, we're greedy humans.
Some companys are less gready the others.
Somy companys work WITH other industarys, rather then trying to take them other.

Its nice and easy to say "every company is just as bad as eachover"
That makes buying stuf easy for you, but im affried it is a huge oversimplification.
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Old 2004-09-18, 17:39
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Again, we can look to game consoles and compare if you want. Sony released the PS2. So it's the weakest of the three consoles...big whoop. Sony's console has reverse compatability, something GCN and X-Box (for obvious reasons, though maybe they could have modded it to play PC games?) don't have. Sony has the option to play online, yet GCN hasn't really gotten their online off the ground (unless I'm mistaken?).
Nintendos Gameboys had all have reverse compatibility, the Gamecube didnt because it was disc-based for the first time. (having a disk and a cart slot would made it more expensive...besides, they have given away the "main" N64 games free on disks)

Xbox could easily have played PC games.
In fact, there is a special coded chip to ensure it cant
Naturely, hakers are still working on that ^_^

The Nintendo Gamecube is just as online as the PS2.
Dont laugh
Let me explain.
The system set up, the network method ect is all identical.
They both allow developers to use their own networks.
A system i approve of, incidently.

However, due to the Gamecube haveing a 1/5th the sales of the ps2, Companys dont see it worthwhile makeing a special network for the Gamecube.
Sega is the only company strongly supporting the gamecube online. (as well as , www.warppipe.com )

So the reason the ps2 has more online stuff.
The ps2 has sold more, simple as that.
Sony didnt "invent" the only for the ps2.

Sega had the best online set-up with the dreamcast way before anyone else, it worked great. You could play against PC owners too.

I stick with what i said, as a bit of hardware, the ps2 is uninventive and in some areas a bit backwards. (how much would 2 more controll ports cost them, really? )

Sony is a powerfull megacompany, they spend 6 billion on a film company.

What amazing thing would they invent if they spent that 6 billion on R&D?
Something that might justify their positon.

Nintendo, btw, is only worth 6 billion total.
Yet they come up with a new controller device each generation.
L&R buttons, Analogue sticks, Wireless Controllers that actualy works.
And yes, the much cirtised connectivity has some cool ideas too.
(downloadable free games from Sega's Phatasy Star Online.)

Sony Eye Toy is the only invention i have seen Sony come up with for games.
It is a great idea, i admit it. (I could say i saw something very simerlar in GameON exhitibiton a few yeas before it came out, but i think that was a co-incidence...i hope.
If not i feel sorry for that company that was riped off)

1 invention in two consoles and complete market dominance?
Sorry that isnt good enough for me

If theres something truely original on the ps2, it will be by a third-party compand


I praise invention, Consoles havnt yet reached their peak in terms of ideas and potential.
Processing power is no longer going to make a difference to gameplay. We need new stuff.
And yet all sony hypes about its PS3 is its magic "cell" chip thats supposed to be oh -so-powerfull.
And yet, I bet they still have the same controll pad
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Old 2004-09-18, 17:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav Sweden
But they could always try to make what they are already good at better, instead of expanding into other areas.

Info: When I was a kid my dream work was business empire builder, btw, I wanted my logo to be on all kinds of products, toothpaste, TVs, computers, raisins, etc. Got inspiration from Donald Duck comics, which I was a frequent reader of.

Now, I have better morals. (I think)
That is, precisely the point

Rather then stick your brand on allready existing devices, invent new ones.

6 billion? I'm sure with that money i could develop my argumented reality geoscopic GPS glass's/headset.
Hope someone company that understands that is listening, because im sure it would be a kick-arse product that would be usefull as well as fun for games.
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Old 2004-09-18, 21:27
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It's a damn good control pad though. They should keep it, or make improvements.
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Old 2004-09-18, 22:39
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Its shape/comfort is a mater of opinion. I dont think its very ergonomical, better then the Xboxs though.
But the hardware on the pad isnt. (analogue stick, R&L buttons ect..none invented by sony).

Personaly i think the Wavebird is the best pad on any format at the moment.
Its sad its taken this long for a decent wireless pad, in fact.
Should have happened much sooner.
But nevertheless, it was Nintendo that applied the (bluetouth-based) technology to a controll pad.
Nintendo, with a tiny fraction of sonys wealth and research abilitys.
If Sony spent the same about of effort on controll pads Nintendo did, we might have full VR suits

As for Next-Gen?
Well, the least Sony can do is build the eyetoy into the system.

I am betting their controller is mostly the same though.

Nintendo meanwhile will have some new feature on theirs.
Maybe a gyroscopic tilt sensor, or something
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Old 2004-09-19, 04:30
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I prefer Sony's controller over all of them. I can't really comment on the X-Box, though it's probably safe to say it is the "worst" of the three (although I dispised the Dreamcast controller, and it's better than that hunk of plastic ).

The PS2 controller is nice for people with big hands...the N64's wasn't. The Wavebird is nice technology, but let's be fair, while Sony didn't invent rumble or pressure sensitive controls (actually, besides the analog stick, wasn't Sony's controller the first pressure-sensitive with buttons and such?), but Nintendo didn't invent wireless technology either (though, yes, I had the NES "satellite" for my 8-bit system, it allowed you to connect 4 controllers to a battery-operated optical unit that shot the signal to a receptor on the NES...had a turbo button and everything!)

The Wavebird is a nice controller, no doubt. While I guess I can sacrifice a rumble for the lack of a cord, it's definitely a drawback. The C-Stick is also small, sometimes awkward. I used to prefer the GCN controller, but it still just feels too "small" in my hand, at least the Wavebird give me a bit more area to work with. Shoulder buttons are nice though.

The PS2 controller has it's own drawbacks - R3 and L3 buttons...the pressing down is inaccurate and can make your player move or something, an unwanted affect, and sometimes I press the wrong shoulder button. But for sports games, and games in general (especially GTA), I think that the PS2 controller is superiour to the GCN. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 2004-09-19, 12:07
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Am I the only one who thinks Wavebirds are stupid? Seriously, "lack of wires" it not a good enough reason to have to replace expensive batteries :|
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Old 2004-09-19, 13:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarmanDX
Am I the only one who thinks Wavebirds are stupid? Seriously, "lack of wires" it not a good enough reason to have to replace expensive batteries :|
Well I think that the Wavebird is pretty nifty, although the lack of a rumble makes it a no-no for me.
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Old 2004-09-19, 13:46
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I've never seen a wavebird, but I agree with Double-J on the PS2-control. It is very good.
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Old 2004-09-19, 14:52
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Well, I don't buy batteries. I bought a Charger and 4 rechargables 2 years ago at Christmas. I'm still surprised they work actually. I can get about 30 hours out of them on my walkman, and about 10 on a GBA. Best money I ever spent. £20 for the set, as opposed to £5 for a pack of 10 batteries. Well worth the money.

I actually quite liked the N64 Pad, especially the trigger like button. I did however HATE the PS1 controller (default dualshockless one.) It was way too thin and felt quite cheap. All was solved with the introduction of the dual shock, which is the best pad ever imo. (Dual Shock 2, that is. Although DS1 isn't bad.)The pressure sensitivity is brilliant. It really makes all the difference in games like metal gear solid. I got so pissed off on the Gamecube version because of lack of sensitivity, I gave up. It goes to show how £5 more can go a long way.

PS2 pad gets my £20.
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Old 2004-09-19, 15:53
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I actually just had to replace a PS2 controller because somebody (*cough*littlebrother*cough*) got a little to rough with the Triangle button, and it wouldn't work correctly.

I was willing to pay a little more ($25 USD) for a Sony Dualshock 2 than for a crappy 3rd-party thing that won't work anyways (although I understand the new 3rd party wireless controller for PS2 works fairly well).

Third-Party pads are notoriously sucky. My N64 Superpad from Interact really...really...sucked. Pieces fell off, and the shape was too contorted from the original design.

---

As far as the Wavebird batteries, I've only replaced them twice so far, and I've had the thing since last Christmas. Two AA batteries isn't that much to sacrifice, especially if you have rechargebles like Pandy...the Wavebird is surprisingly efficient with regards to battery life, in a time when other wireless products are notoriously harsh on battery life.
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Old 2004-09-19, 16:00
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It is after all only a signal the Wavebird sends out... like a remote control for a TV. Had the same batteries in that for over a year and a half.
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Old 2004-09-19, 17:17
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(I have only read half of this thread)
------------------------------------
If this one company thingy did happen, I think that little groups of rebels will form, then try and overthrow the company, claiming it for themselves. We could see a world like Deus Ex, or look at it this way, The machines in the matrix could be the big company, and the rebels, the rebels. I have to agree with Darkflame here, what he says seems very likely (in my eyes anyway)
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  #44  
Old 2004-09-19, 18:55
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Aren't recharagable batteries filled with shit? Like bad for the environment or so? Perhaps I should buy some, I waste ~4 AA-batteries/week in my Discman during my travels.
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Old 2004-09-19, 18:59
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I dunno about the content of rechargebles.

---

As far as the Wavebird...yeah, if it had a rumble function, you're probably gonna get 5 hours max on battery life
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  #46  
Old 2004-09-19, 19:02
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I have a 3rd-party PS2 control plugged to my PC (with USB port). It works well, I think and it was much cheaper than the "real" one.
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Old 2004-09-19, 19:21
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If you already have a PS2, its cheaper to buy a convertor and use that on the PC.
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Old 2004-09-19, 19:55
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I dont.
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Old 2004-09-19, 20:42
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I know, I didn't mean you personally, I meant you in the other sense.
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Old 2004-09-19, 21:06
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I know, because if you had meant me you had spelled you with a Y like this: You
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