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General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

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  #51  
Old 2016-05-22, 13:30
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My point is if you cant make a big LBA, you have to make a small one. So thats why I think breaking it up into chunks is one of the most plausible ways to do it.
The sense of exploration (and specifically the non-linear nature) would have to come from within the Islands, rather then between them. I certainly get not wanting the linearness, but I think it can be avoided (or well, reduced a lot):

Possibly the game structure would mean that when a new Island is released and you visit it (new mini-mission, new characters, new environment) all the dialogues on the created Islands get updated (so a new "chapter"). Combine this with some areas deliberately sealed of until you get X/Y or Z item and I think you can get the feeling "there's always something new around the corner". - even if (geography wise) its a corner you already turned before.

Playing though the WiiU game XenobladeX a lot of my enjoyment actually comes from just re-visiting the main city and chating to characters. There's a lot of satisfaction from that when their lifes have been changed a bit by my actions elsewhere. (and updating dialogue often shouldn't be too expensive budget wise).
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  #52  
Old 2016-05-22, 14:55
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Let's use this thread as a means for everyone to chime in with their ideas and then we can group similar ones together and make a poll (which is what asked for in the stream) so we can see where some of the fanbase stands in terms of expectations.

Personally, I would like the following things:

- Non linearity
- Voice acting
- Colorful
- 3D outdoor (lba2 style), w/ isometric indoors
- New vehicles (submarine for the underwater level?)
- Avoid point and click interface
- No DLC content
- Philippe Vachey's music
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  #53  
Old 2016-05-22, 16:46
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i want :

-Open world

-All in 3D (indoors/outdoors) Look's like Skies of arcadia => Spoiler:
( but view on 3D iso )

-A travel with dinofly totaly playable, not a cinematic as like LBA1,2. A real liberty look's like Zelda Wind Waker !

-Gameplay simplified when we can't get out of situations in battle.

-Storyline immersiv with a lot of turnaround in story.

-Twisen always naive

-Univers/ambiance/OST always magic

- NOT PROJECT IN AAA. A little / Medium budget does not mean that lower ambitions !! With Graphics look's like "lara croft and the temple of osiris" it's good for me
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  #54  
Old 2016-05-22, 18:04
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Why do you continue to post your LBA-related fantasies for over 20 years? I am sure Fred and co do not read this, and even if they do, they only laugh sliently, but in the public they are like: "Oh, LBA3, yes yes, we want to make it" because they don't want to hurt your feelings. So it all doesn't matter.
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  #55  
Old 2016-05-22, 18:18
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Originally Posted by ras maxim View Post
Why do you continue to post your LBA-related fantasies for over 20 years? I am sure Fred and co do not read this, and even if they do, they only laugh sliently, but in the public they are like: "Oh, LBA3, yes yes, we want to make it" because they don't want to hurt your feelings. So it all doesn't matter.
that is kinda cynical?

I know the chances for a lba 3 are slim, but I think they never considered making it a smaller game first.
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  #56  
Old 2016-05-22, 18:18
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You.. you are horrible and hurt my feelings
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  #57  
Old 2016-05-22, 19:47
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Originally Posted by Archas View Post
- NOT PROJECT IN AAA. A little / Medium budget does not mean that lower ambitions !! With Graphics look's like "lara croft and the temple of osiris" it's good for me

Minimum budget for nice open world adventure game is 15-20 millions. Small budget = bad content and bad quality of product. Little budget not for a LBA series. LBA 2 in 1997 was amazing game like Withcher 3 now.
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  #58  
Old 2016-05-22, 21:26
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Originally Posted by NickZah View Post
Minimum budget for nice open world adventure game is 15-20 millions. Small budget = bad content and bad quality of product. Little budget not for a LBA series. LBA 2 in 1997 was amazing game like Withcher 3 now.
With 3D look's like lara croft and the temple of osiris. The openworld It's not a budget of a game AAA.


Sorry again for my english :

LBA2 it's not a amazing good graphics in 1997, just good, a excellent 3D. 1 Years after half life is done, and 2 years after Shenmue is output in japan.... A world of difference graphics.

LBA1 is the one of the most beautiful game in 1994. But not LBA2 in 1997

today in 2016, developper a game in open world with graphics look's like lara crost and the temple of osiris, it's not a budget of a game AAA. The planet twinsun it's not a very large planet. The islands is very small and not lot of islands.

LBA3 with middle budget is possible. Without ambition downgrade. Just graphics not look's like the witcher 3. But it's not a problem. I want a colors universe, with magic atmosphere. I don't want a graphic ultra realistic.

Last edited by Archas; 2016-05-22 at 21:40.
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  #59  
Old 2016-05-22, 21:41
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LBA2 it's not a amazing good graphics in 1997, just good, not excellent the 3D.
I always thought the graphics of lba2 was pretty revolutionary for 1997. But I was 5 so what did I know

Also, does anyone actually know how much lba2 (or 1) cost in the context of that time?
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  #60  
Old 2016-05-22, 23:16
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Tomb raider 2 is out on the same years

And the graphics is better. ( for the 3D )
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  #61  
Old 2016-05-22, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Styx View Post

Also, does anyone actually know how much lba2 (or 1) cost in the context of that time?
A good bugdet today. Not the AAA of 1997, but a nice good budget today. ( FF7 , Tomb raider 2, age of empire etc.... have a supérior budget in this years 1997 )



Why Sega they bought Adeline :'(((
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  #62  
Old 2016-05-23, 01:25
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Uuuh I don't know about that. Feels like dangerous territory, especially if the main objective is to retain the original lba atmosphere.

I also think that with an episode style the game would lose its open-worldedness... Imagine if in lba2 you couldn't go to the francos island before completing otringal. Part of the immersive experience of lba is precisely the fact that you feel 'free' when you are trying to solve a puzzle, since you can go to all the islands even when the next clue is on a specific one. I don't think you can capture that 'exploration' experience with a modular game.
I first thought so ,too… but thinking about LBA2 again, it is quite "episodic" i it's own.
There are some points of no return on the journey:
Twinsun raining -> Twinsun with Esmers -> Zeelich as a tourist -> Twinsun under "attack" -> Emerald Moon -> Zeelich

Each "episode" gives you some amount of freedom, some more, some less but none of us would complain that you can't travel Zeelich and Twinsun back and forth whenever you like.

On the other hand, there's still a problem as we already know that LBA3's story will only include Twinsun, so that might indeed be a little more difficult than the episodic "planet-hopping"
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  #63  
Old 2016-05-23, 05:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgoïd View Post
Hello ! I come here to thank you Freeman !

I almost never come because I 'm not very good in English but this time i wanted to say thank you , it was a great time in your company + Didier and Fred ! This idea of ​​LBA 3 and Tomb Raider and the Temple of Osiris is very good! Personally , i we say "LBA3" I want two things: open world + 3D iso and for the rest I trust in the dev team !

Sorry for this horrible english...
Thanks man it's been a pleasure to deliver this stream to the community. It's also been a pleasure to see the amount of people and love that was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archas View Post
-A travel with dinofly totaly playable, not a cinematic as like LBA1,2. A real liberty look's like Zelda Wind Waker !
These kind of new stuff would cost a lot to be worth it. Chances that it end up in shit are high. I also like the way your limited in LBA. But yes if the map was giant and the Dino limited to a certain height it could be nice. But in s not too big map it would just be OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archas View Post
With 3D look's like lara croft and the temple of osiris. The openworld It's not a budget of a game AAA.


Sorry again for my english :

LBA2 it's not a amazing good graphics in 1997, just good, a excellent 3D. 1 Years after half life is done, and 2 years after Shenmue is output in japan.... A world of difference graphics.

LBA1 is the one of the most beautiful game in 1994. But not LBA2 in 1997

today in 2016, developper a game in open world with graphics look's like lara crost and the temple of osiris, it's not a budget of a game AAA. The planet twinsun it's not a very large planet. The islands is very small and not lot of islands.

LBA3 with middle budget is possible. Without ambition downgrade. Just graphics not look's like the witcher 3. But it's not a problem. I want a colors universe, with magic atmosphere. I don't want a graphic ultra realistic.
This is totally true. LBA 2 was a nice graphical game but not the best out there. Like Fred said a lot, they were working on a platform that was already obsolete. It's the case for lots of developers between 1990 and 2000. Things were updating and changing so quickly by the time you finish developing a game there was a new technology. Engines started later on...

Knowing that if they enter in this kind of big technology stuff nowadays it'll sure cost millions and millions. It would be beautiful but after 20 years we've all played and replayed LBA again and again in isometric what would it be?

It would be different and people would not recognize the style of the game. In my case lots of nice titles have become crap when they released a 64 version in 3d. I don't like Mario 64 and other 64 games like so. Some are awesome yes but they had the load of cash to do it.

...I stopped playing Worms when it got 3D, I stopped listening to Metallica when it became commercial, I had to break up with my girlfriends when they changed, I stopped seeing friends because they have changed...

If you bring up a big changes in the manner how a game work and how people have played it in the last 20 years, you must give something awesome and be sure of your shot. You must have money. You must bring something like GTA, Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc. These games have changed a lot through the years but they did greatly and I think it's because they did it in the good timestamp. For lots of people when 3D was new, a known title was welcomed by the gamers because it was release close to the last one with a not too much different technology. It's far different for LBA 3 that have waited 20 years and still haven't released.

That's why budget-wise and all-other-considerations-wise, I vote for a Tomb Raider Temple Of Osiris graphic like game. It looks awesome, it's effective and we keep the LBA atmosphere.
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  #64  
Old 2016-05-23, 05:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archas View Post
But not LBA2 in 1997

today in 2016, developper a game in open world with graphics look's like lara crost and the temple of osiris, it's not a budget of a game AAA. The planet twinsun it's not a very large planet. The islands is very small and not lot of islands.

LBA3 with middle budget is possible.
15-20 millions is budget for middle game. Not AAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archas View Post
Tomb raider 2 is out on the same years

And the graphics is better. ( for the 3D )
Tomb raider 2 graphics worse than LBA2. Ugly textures and 3d models, bad design.
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  #65  
Old 2016-05-23, 08:46
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The AAA terminology is utterly stupid anyway. Its a marketing thing that has somehow tricked the world into thinking that budget somehow relates to quality and now everyone just accepts it.
Even graphical quality isn't tied to budget strongly. Graphical detail sure. But thats not the same thing.

For reference, heres a Wikipedia list of the worlds most expensive games;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mes_to_develop

If you include marketing the most expensive ever releases are $250million.
But these the exceptions. These are the worlds most expensive things - and some of which are flops.

Plenty of things are still made for vastly vastly less budgets (and often more profitable)

You can also look to kickstarters for lower budget stuff that still looks nice visually;

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...mer-rare-vival

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-the-overworld

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...lite-dangerous

(now, feel free to double or even tripple to KS funds for a more realistic cost estimate as many KS have self-funding as well. They are still very much made on tight budgets though)


That said, its not that LBA3 wouldn't need about $10million+ - I think it would.
I don't however, think that nice looking graphics are that tied to those big budgets. When your going for a more simple style, you can make stuff look nicer a lot more cheaply. No need for the armys of rent-a-modelers that the big publishers biggest releases use.
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  #66  
Old 2016-05-23, 09:55
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Agreed lba should not change dramatically.
The last pc version had dramatic controls on gamepad and a buggy magicball trajectory...

It's already broken, so easy to ruin the game
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  #67  
Old 2016-05-23, 10:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZah View Post
15-20 millions is budget for middle game. Not AAA.



Tomb raider 2 graphics worse than LBA2. Ugly textures and 3d models, bad design.
Yes and for a little budget is ok to make lba3 for me.

Tomb raider 2 the 3D is superior than the 3D of LBA2 Don't play tomb raider 2 on ps1 , play it on PC

And i don't talk to level design, just the pure 3D. The textures is better in tomb raider2, the modele too.

Last edited by Archas; 2016-05-23 at 11:01.
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  #68  
Old 2016-05-23, 11:22
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thanks man it's been a pleasure to deliver this stream to the community. It's also been a pleasure to see the amount of people and love that was there.



These kind of new stuff would cost a lot to be worth it. Chances that it end up in shit are high. I also like the way your limited in lba. But yes if the map was giant and the dino limited to a certain height it could be nice. But in s not too big map it would just be op.



This is totally true. Lba 2 was a nice graphical game but not the best out there. Like fred said a lot, they were working on a platform that was already obsolete. It's the case for lots of developers between 1990 and 2000. Things were updating and changing so quickly by the time you finish developing a game there was a new technology. Engines started later on...

Knowing that if they enter in this kind of big technology stuff nowadays it'll sure cost millions and millions. It would be beautiful but after 20 years we've all played and replayed lba again and again in isometric what would it be?

It would be different and people would not recognize the style of the game. In my case lots of nice titles have become crap when they released a 64 version in 3d. I don't like mario 64 and other 64 games like so. Some are awesome yes but they had the load of cash to do it.

...i stopped playing worms when it got 3d, i stopped listening to metallica when it became commercial, i had to break up with my girlfriends when they changed, i stopped seeing friends because they have changed...

If you bring up a big changes in the manner how a game work and how people have played it in the last 20 years, you must give something awesome and be sure of your shot. You must have money. You must bring something like gta, zelda, final fantasy, etc. These games have changed a lot through the years but they did greatly and i think it's because they did it in the good timestamp. For lots of people when 3d was new, a known title was welcomed by the gamers because it was release close to the last one with a not too much different technology. It's far different for lba 3 that have waited 20 years and still haven't released.

That's why budget-wise and all-other-considerations-wise, i vote for a tomb raider temple of osiris graphic like game. It looks awesome, it's effective and we keep the lba atmosphere.
+1000000000000000


ps: i don't like Mario 64 too
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  #69  
Old 2016-05-23, 16:03
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Quote:
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ps: i don't like Mario 64 too
This is Mario :

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  #70  
Old 2016-05-23, 16:08
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What's wrong with mario 64? Admittedly i would HATE lba to be in that style but some of my favorite games are those 3d platformers with a 'level selection' area: Mario 64, Spyro, Pac man world, Gex to name a few (all on ps1)

Again to clarify: Having an lba game concept with levels and stupid bullshit to collect like coins, gems, pac dots and mobile phones would make me have a stroke.
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Last edited by Styx; 2016-05-23 at 18:26.
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  #71  
Old 2016-05-23, 16:16
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I just read this KS campaign DF, and come on! Did these guys really raise close to 3 fucking million euros for some 3D platformer?? Who has ever heard of yooka-doodle-dee or whatever What makes lba not able to achieve this?

Who are these punks rolling in their crowd funded cash while we're here struggling to figure out how to afford a cure to treat our injured Dino-Flys?!
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  #72  
Old 2016-05-23, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Styx View Post
Again to clarify: Having an lba game concept with levels and stupid bullshit to collect like coins, gems, pac dots and mobile phones would make me have a stroke.
I totally agree with this, and Spyro on PS1 is a killer game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styx View Post
I just read this KS campaign DF, and come on! Did these guys really raise close to 3 fucking million euros for some 3D platformer?? Who has ever heard of yooka-doodle-dee or whatever What makes lba not able to achieve this?

Who are these punks rolling in their crowd funded cash while we're here struggling to figure out how to afford a cure to treat our injured Dino-Flys?!
OFMG, this makes me think that a kickstarter could be better than we think.
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  #73  
Old 2016-05-23, 21:34
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anyone know the game oceanhorn? it's a game for iPad and Pc.
I like the way they handled 3D in this game, it's more isometric.

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  #74  
Old 2016-05-23, 22:02
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Oooo I like this! It's like a hybrid between the graphics of lba1 and 2; keeping the isometric lba1 style but making it open world so you can see in the distance. I really dig it. I may be wrong but it reminds be of Angelus' lba1 remake style.

If the camera was further away from the character it would be better.

Whether this style translates to reduced costs & resource requirements is beyond my knowledge of game development though...
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  #75  
Old 2016-05-24, 12:45
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Twingirl => I don't like this graphics, it's too simplified.
Lack of detail and depth
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