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  #1  
Old 2009-07-26, 14:04
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EU=1 Microsoft=0

Yeah, they forced Microsoft in EU to add Firefox and Opera to Windows7

Take that shitsoft. A happy day indeed.
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  #2  
Old 2009-07-26, 14:08
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As far as I know the E-Version of Windows 7 won't contain any browser at all.
There is no browser previously installed although the manufacturers can give a CD with any browsers with it.
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  #3  
Old 2009-07-26, 14:15
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The EU has already forced Microsoft to play a lot of money (by EU standards)/almost nothing (by Microsoft standards) for including Windows Media Player with their system.
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  #4  
Old 2009-07-26, 14:23
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Leoboe, the latest info is that the EU commission did not agree to that idea, and just now forced microsoft to add other browsers. Your info is from may.


http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/24/m...-users-browse/
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  #5  
Old 2009-07-26, 15:01
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I'm a bit perplexed. How is this...legal...to force a company to include certain products or software in an OS? Was Microsoft forcing IE and only IE to run on their systems?

Incidentally, I enjoyed the article pointing out that Apple is doing the same thing, but not catching any issue for it. Apparently, elitist hippies are immune.
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  #6  
Old 2009-07-26, 15:32
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First of all the market of Apple is minuscule. And the charge is that microsoft is using it's position as a monopolist to further addict the market to it's products. Second of all it's legal because ie doesn't keep to the internet standards. With microsoft having a huge monopoly on home OS' this makes the web developers write sites for ie alone, making it's hold even greater as other browsers can't handle those sites "as good", which makes the developers of these browsers waste time making their apps "compatible" with sites crippled to work with ie.

The UE Commission wanted microsoft to either straighten it's issues with internet standards, or provide it's users with alternative browsers.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2009-07-26 at 18:21.
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  #7  
Old 2009-07-26, 16:12
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I can visualize it right now...

Welcome to Windows 7 Setup!

Please choose a default internet web browser:

( ) Microsoft(R) Internet Explorer 8 (Strongly Recommended)
(*) Mozilla Firefox

[!] Warning! Danger! Mozilla Firefox browser is not supported by Microsoft(R) and could severely harm your system and engender your personal safety! It is strongly recommended to use Microsoft(R) Internet Explorer 8 for optimal browsing experience and maximum security. Are you sure you wish to proceed?

[Yes] [No]

Last edited by ChaosFish; 2009-07-26 at 16:18.
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  #8  
Old 2009-07-26, 16:31
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@CF:
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  #9  
Old 2009-07-26, 18:31
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CF - Yeah, Ive seen other posts like that, its almost certainly how its going to be presented.

This is good.
I was worrying because some of the storys Ive read say it will be at the shops/retailers discretion to chose the starting browser
Microsoft has been known to pressurise stores in the past, so that might not end up making a blind bit of difference.
--
Double-J - The problem is one company using their "earnt" monopoly to get another monopoly for free. This is a flaw with the captalistic system, so we "patch" the system to remove anti-compedative practices. Which is what IE has been demmed as.
Because of IE's free bundling and default usage, competition has been stiffled and thus innovation on the web has ground to a crawl.
As a web developer this is very obvious; SVG should have long ago become the standard for non-photographic graphics on the web. Inline SVG rather then GIFs would have saved websevers around the world millions, possibly billions, of requests daily. Not to mention easy scaleing to all resolutions. The only browser not support SVG is IE. Even IE8 dosnt touch it.
And thats just one case.

Healthy competition is a great thing that leads to improvements for all. This ruling should help that happen.

That said, frankly I do think that exact same thing should apply to Safari / Macs
Even though its a much more standard supporting browser and the effects of lack of competition are less obvious, that dosnt rule out the possibility it will happen in future.

========

I'm also very interested to see where this leaves Chrome OS.
I love just about everything Google, and having a quick-booting browser-based OS sounds to me very usefull for most people. Especialy with Google Gears removing the old arguments about wanting a local copy of data and offline access.
But despite my Google love, I cant easily see how they cant also fall under the same laws.
They too are bundleing a browser with an OS....making it the OS itself, in fact.
Surely if they then get their OS installed with PCs as a boot-option, some of the same arguments will apply to them

Then again, maybe as the whole thing is free, they will be excluded.
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  #10  
Old 2009-07-26, 18:33
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Oh, btw, slightly offtopic, but has anyone else noticed the "Ultimate" edition of Windows 7 contains only two things more then the professional?

* All languages.
* A file encrypter.

Thats it. Thats actualy it O_o
Why do they bother? Are people that stupid as to pay over the odds for next to nothing? Is the black box that appealing ^_-
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  #11  
Old 2009-07-26, 18:36
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wtf ??? u serious ?
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  #12  
Old 2009-07-26, 18:44
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Darkflame, the ruling does state however that people putting PC's together will have the ability to choose the browser. Which sucks actually...
Although I only met a handful of people using IE these days, I think that retailers might actually install it with Firefox or Opera.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2009-07-26 at 18:54.
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  #13  
Old 2009-07-26, 19:25
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You are all looking at this from the wrong angle.
This isn't about market competition or technological innovation.
It's about human dignity. Human rights.
Have you ever had to make a large and complex website cross-browser compliant?
Oh good god - the pain.
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  #14  
Old 2009-07-26, 20:44
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True.
Ever ever so true.
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  #15  
Old 2009-07-26, 22:12
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Microsoft isn't good for their customers, unless enforced.
Apple is terrible for their customers in markets where they don't have a high share (i.e. iPod/iTunes). And try to be good for markets where they have a minority share. But you sure as hell can't trust them.
OpenSource community... doesn't really give a shit, they just try to solve problems they have.
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  #16  
Old 2009-07-27, 04:33
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I'm confuzzled though in the sense that...it's not like Windows blocks you from installing a browser (or any other software) on the PC and disabling IE from being the primary browser. Granted, I see Microsoft having a monopolistic market share, but why aren't they complaining about, for example, Outlook Express or something like Windows Movie Maker?
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Old 2009-07-27, 11:52
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Id guess because those things dont dominate their fields enough to hold everyone else back.
Everyone has to cater for IE when makeing websites, or else lose almost all the marker of viewers.
Windows Movie Maker dosnt influence anything in that same way.
I guess because its a creation program rather then a viewing program.

Outlook Express could, in theory, hold back development of email protocalls, but purhapes its not obvious enough, or no one cares enough to complain.
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  #18  
Old 2009-08-05, 15:31
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Actually, Outlook Express & Windows Movie Maker were removed from Windows 7. You have to download them if you want them.
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  #19  
Old 2009-08-05, 17:41
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Outlook Express is still there and it's irremovable, it's just renamed to "Windows Mail". And Windows Movie Maker is renamed to Windows DVD Maker.

Btw, how ridicules is that: Windows 7 version number is 6.1. Windows XP was 5.1, Windows Vista was 6.0, and Windows 7 (7!!!) is 6.1. Stuuuupid.
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Old 2009-08-05, 19:47
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Just goes to show you what 7 really is....

How much different it is from VIsta anyway? Looking at how fast they released it's probably heavily based on it anyway.
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  #21  
Old 2009-08-05, 21:18
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I thought the whole core was supposed to be re-written
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  #22  
Old 2009-08-06, 02:05
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From using the RC, 7 seems like the love child between XP and Vista. Very light, surprisingly.
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  #23  
Old 2009-08-06, 03:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
Everyone has to cater for IE when makeing websites, or else lose almost all the marker of viewers.
Yes, but not entirely...
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp states that Firefox owns almost 48% of the market share where IE owns 39.4% (that being IE 6, IE 7 and IE 8 combined).

But I agree with Chaos that they'll throw all measures to stop Firefox from being the default browser.
They'll hide FF away somewhere and have a secret registry switch hidden away so deep that will be almost impossible to make it the default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
How much different it is from VIsta anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame View Post
I thought the whole core was supposed to be re-written
I heard that it was based on the Vista core and only minor enhancements were made to the bulk of it and just got a new GUI.
Though that's just what I heard, doesn't mean it's true.
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Old 2009-08-06, 11:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SebZ View Post
Yes, but not entirely...
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp states that Firefox owns almost 48% of the market share where IE owns 39.4% (that being IE 6, IE 7 and IE 8 combined).
Omg When did that happen? According to these statistics, if it's true, by 2009 Firefox owns the browser war.
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  #25  
Old 2009-08-06, 12:58
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err...those stats arnt general websites visiters, thats stats for people that visit w3schools....which is likely to be webdevelopers....who are likely to be using better browsers then IE.

Quote:
These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users.
They do, however, accurately show the trend away from IE.
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