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  #1  
Old 2013-06-10, 08:53
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Zink Zink is offline
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Something really nice is coming...

I think it's a good time to announce this.

Recently I have been working on LBA2 support in LBArchitect. With help of alexfont I was able to research the scripts and make decompilation procedures that seem to be working fine now. I have got some problems with Scenes as they are more complicated than in LBA1 and have quite some amount of unknown data. I also have some troubles recognizing the existing objects data, like zones, which seem to have some information coded into the type field.

See the teaser screenshot attached. You can view the full size here:
http://kazekr.net/inne/Architect_lba2.png

As you can see, there is also a new object inspector, that should be more friendly now (it's resizeable and scrollable).

I did not try to compile the scripts yet, but this will not be an easy task. The biggest problem is the new switch construction, that has some quirks and varies in the structure among scenes.

Frédérick, I hope this will not interfere with your LBA developments, or disturb you in any way. If it may do, just let me know .
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Last edited by Zink; 2013-06-10 at 09:00. Reason: Mistake in the title
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  #2  
Old 2013-06-10, 09:28
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wow, impressive stuff!
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  #3  
Old 2013-06-10, 11:29
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Great news and very nice work! Will it support 3d scenes as well or only iso?
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  #4  
Old 2013-06-10, 11:30
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Great work you are doing here guys!

PS: there's a birthday thread for you, I'm not sure if you've seen it: http://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=17080
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  #5  
Old 2013-06-10, 19:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renesans View Post
Great news and very nice work! Will it support 3d scenes as well or only iso?
3D scenes seem to be in the same format, so I can open them with an isometric grid background (and this makes me think how to implement 3D exterior backgrounds display).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Link View Post
PS: there's a birthday thread for you, I'm not sure if you've seen it: http://forum.magicball.net/showthread.php?t=17080
Thanks, I haven't noticed it
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  #6  
Old 2013-06-10, 19:39
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Impressive ! Carry on
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  #7  
Old 2013-06-10, 21:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink View Post
3D scenes seem to be in the same format, so I can open them with an isometric grid background (and this makes me think how to implement 3D exterior backgrounds display).
You can try to get the source code of my LBA 2 Island Height Map Viewer and see how I did it there and possibly improve on it. I suggest though porting it to DirectX or something, because the direct 2D drawing I use, is very slow. Also, somewhere on this forum, some guys posted their source code for the LBA 2 island format specification.

Edit: You're misspelling comportement as comportment in your life scripts.
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  #8  
Old 2013-06-10, 21:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
You're misspelling comportement as comportment in your life scripts.
Actually, it's comportment in English. Comportement is French.
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  #9  
Old 2013-06-10, 21:51
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There is an island viewer I made in the past for LBAOnline, the source code is still online, if you are interested.
You can find the loader's code here: http://trac.assembla.com/live_on_twi...andLoaderDraft

You can find a detailed discussion about the format (and the reverse-engineering process to understand it) here and here.
I will try to synthesize this information on your wiki when I have some time.
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  #10  
Old 2013-06-11, 07:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Edit: You're misspelling comportement as comportment in your life scripts.
No, I have just realized "comportment" is the proper English form (as Renesans said)

Thanks Link, I will look into it some day.
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  #11  
Old 2013-06-11, 14:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink View Post
No, I have just realized "comportment" is the proper English form (as Renesans said)

Thanks Link, I will look into it some day.
The word in the LBA life scripts is supposed to be French, not English. So comportement is right. Plus, it was spelt like this in the command lists given from Adeline to alexfont.
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  #12  
Old 2013-06-11, 14:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renesans View Post
Actually, it's comportment in English. Comportement is French.
Adeline are French, I doubt they even knew that English word. Plus in all the information we have from yaz0r, etc., the commands have the spelling comportement.
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  #13  
Old 2013-06-11, 14:32
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Comportement is actually translated as behavior in game.
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  #14  
Old 2013-06-11, 14:34
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Zink released an awesome update to his awesome program. I have an idea, let's fight over semantics
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  #15  
Old 2013-06-11, 14:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link View Post
Comportement is actually translated as behavior in game.
I'm talking about the decompiled life scripts from yaz0r where the commands were clearly spelled comportement. And that most likely comes from the official Adeline code repository.
Plus, Occam's razor tells us it's more likely they simply didn't know the English word (behavior) and used the French instead, than that they somehow found out a pretty obscure English word.
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  #16  
Old 2013-06-12, 14:52
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Looks amazing.
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  #17  
Old 2013-06-12, 18:40
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Looks amazing indeed.
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Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
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" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
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  #18  
Old 2013-06-12, 20:13
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Wow Zink! Amazing! Thanks for keeping the development!
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Take a look at the blog!

LBA:LID Demo v1.0 HERE
Report bugs here! Thanks Alexfont!
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Take a look at Vindish's mod!
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  #19  
Old 2013-06-13, 07:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
The word in the LBA life scripts is supposed to be French, not English. So comportement is right. Plus, it was spelt like this in the command lists given from Adeline to alexfont.
The original script command list consists of both English and French words, and I have already changed some of them for LBA1 scripts to make them more user-friendly (e.g. "bulle" -> balloon, "l_track" -> current_track, "comportement_hero" -> behaviour). I don't see the reason why I should keep the original names for LBA2, especially when sometimes they will be confusing (there is a "REM" command, which would expand to "remove" in English, but in French it is probably an abbreviation of "remplace", which means "replace" in English). And in LBA2 scripts there are more French words that are not similar to any English word (like "pluie", which means "rain"), that would have no meaning for an average English user.
For the last, the program is in English, so everything inside should be in English too, to make the users not having to use it with a dictionary.

Also for LBA1 there is an alias for the COMPORTEMENT, so all the old scripts will compile without change.

Thanks for the support guys.
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  #20  
Old 2013-06-13, 20:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink
I don't see the reason why I should keep the original names for LBA2,
Because that's what Adeline called them and therefore, it's well, the standard.
Also, this is a programming language, so it's by definition not mean for an average English user.

Quote:
so everything inside should be in English too, to make the users not having to use it with a dictionary.
Again, it's a programming language. If we go by your logic, we should also change all confusing commands in C or C++ in order to make people able to program without knowledge or reference.
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  #21  
Old 2013-06-13, 20:43
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It's what they did with the programming language in the TI calculators. Took me some time to understand what the english tutorial was talking about.
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  #22  
Old 2013-06-13, 21:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Because that's what Adeline called them and therefore, it's well, the standard.
Also, this is a programming language, so it's by definition not mean for an average English user.


Again, it's a programming language. If we go by your logic, we should also change all confusing commands in C or C++ in order to make people able to program without knowledge or reference.
I agree that it's some sort of script language. However, the commands are stored in hex in the scene files, so I don't think it causes any harm to give them more meaningful names. Or do you think face_twinkel is better than face_hero? Some commands, like rem (as Zink said) are downright confusing. But you're right in some way that the original command names should also be available for compatibility purposes. I don't know if there are "new" commands which use the same name as another "original" command, however. In that case, there shouldn't be.
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  #23  
Old 2013-06-13, 22:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Because that's what Adeline called them and therefore, it's well, the standard.
Standards only make sense in the context of widely used and interoperable technology. Not to mention the LBA scripts are compiled to a bytecode form, I really don't see why we should limit ourselves to reimplement the exact original language, if we can come up with something better.
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  #24  
Old 2013-06-16, 12:42
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Yes, exactly, Adeline gave alexfont the list of commands, and I think we should stick to that.
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  #25  
Old 2013-06-16, 15:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Because that's what Adeline called them and therefore, it's well, the standard.
What still bugs me is why you don't complain about name changes in LBA1 scripts (which can be edited with other programs, making them incompatible), and you complain about changes in LBA2 scripts which are actually not used by any available program, so no incompatibility may ever occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Also, this is a programming language, so it's by definition not mean for an average English user.
But it's meant for a person who can think logically. So it should be as logical as possible to avoid creating unnecessary confusion and obstacles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Again, it's a programming language. If we go by your logic, we should also change all confusing commands in C or C++ in order to make people able to program without knowledge or reference.
Are there confusing commands in C? Which ones? Following your example, changing command names in C would be quite reasonable, if for example some of them were in English and some in French.

And I agree with Lupin. Keeping the command names 'standard' (I'm not sure if it is a standard) would be reasonable only if there was another widely available program that uses them (that it could create an incompatibility).
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