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General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

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  #1  
Old 2012-02-12, 19:59
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Well of Sendell in LBA 2!

So, I took a copy of LBA 2, and did this:
1. Copied CELEBRA2.ILE to SENDELL.ILE and CELEBRA2.OBL to SENDELL.OBL, and edited entry 1 in SENDELL.ILE to place the only slot in in a different location just for the heck of it.
2. Modified the Desert Island oasis scene to use "1 - Unused" as the text bank and the correct island area coordinates.
3. Just to make sure the game doesn't crash if I try to talk, I replaced the Unused entries in TEXT.HQR with copies of other entries.

Went in th egame, used the can-use-ferry-during-rain bug to go to Desert Island just to go there instantly, went to the close to the Desert Island oasis, saved the game (couldn't go to the area now referencing the Unused bank without at least a Proto-Pack) and used my LBA 2 Saved Game Editor to give myself the Proto-Pack and the Super Jet-Pack.
Back in the game, loaded it, pressed J and went ahead. Not only did SENDELL.ILE and SENDELL.OBL load, showing me basically a Celebration Island with water instead of lava and gas - when I pressed H, the game pointed me to the correct area of Twinsun, and said "Well of Sendell"!
Obviously when I go to the island close-up of this, I get a black screen, but I'll see what I can do that.

So yeah I'd say this confirms with absolute certainty that the Well of Sendell was planned to be in LBA 2 originally but cut pretty close to completion of the game, meaning the references to the island were left in the game.

I've also attached two screenshots to this post and I will see how to distribute the actual files once I'm done testing this.
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  #2  
Old 2012-02-12, 20:26
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So, I just found what in HOLOMAP.HQR to replace to change that ugly black screen on Holomap close-up to something nicer. I changed it to a complete map of the LBA 1 Well of Sendell Construction Site that I found somewhere here on the MBN.

I've attached a screenshot of how that looks in the game.
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Old 2012-02-12, 21:45
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OK, here (attached) is a screenshot of the place after retexturing.
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Old 2012-02-12, 22:41
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Wow! Nice work Battler, that's all I can say. Can you upload the modified files? On a side note, do you think Principal Island was to be included in LBA2 too?
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  #5  
Old 2012-02-12, 22:51
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Awesome!
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  #6  
Old 2012-02-12, 23:31
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Niiice
I wish it didn't get cut from the game, though. It looked a lot different from its LBA1 incarnation (judging from the final cutscene and the museum in Citadel Island)
The circle of mountains surrounding it is nowhere to be seen either, not sure if that was intentional or not, 'cause it's still there when twinsun is seen from space.
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Old 2012-02-13, 00:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renesans
On a side note, do you think Principal Island was to be included in LBA2 too?
It doesn't look like it. The only island that is referenced by the game but has no files or scenes included, is the Well of Sendell, with its files being named SENDELL.ILE and SENDELL.OBL. I noticed this one by chance one night years ago when I was hex-editing the executable file of the game and noticed SENDELL among the island strings.
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Old 2012-02-13, 09:40
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I wonder why the well of sendell was cut from the game? Was it because in the current plotline of final cutscene, it would make no sence to have Twinsen run through Polar Island just to get to the well or was there another plotline entirely origonally? Maybe another fight again funFrock some how, I really wouldn't put it past FunFrock to have a way of getting back to Twinsen in a hurry and we all know there is a chance we only ever killed his clones in lba1 and lba2.
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  #9  
Old 2012-02-13, 12:51
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- Twinsan: What strikes me as odd is, that in all the LBA 2 resource files, the Well of Sendell is placed in order between Citadel Island and Desert Island. Maybe you were originally meant to visit the Well of Sendell before Desert Island?
Maybe the game originally started before the storm, and you had to go to the Well of Sendell via Dino-Fly for who knows what reason, then maybe crashed in the storm with Dino-Fly after coming back.
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Old 2012-02-13, 16:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
- Twinsan: What strikes me as odd is, that in all the LBA 2 resource files, the Well of Sendell is placed in order between Citadel Island and Desert Island. Maybe you were originally meant to visit the Well of Sendell before Desert Island?
Maybe the game originally started before the storm, and you had to go to the Well of Sendell via Dino-Fly for who knows what reason, then maybe crashed in the storm with Dino-Fly after coming back.
Maybe the ball of Sendell wasn't origonally on Citadel Island, maybe Sendell summoned Twinsen to alert him of the danger that is yet to come.
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  #11  
Old 2012-02-14, 19:44
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Wait, is it looking like Celebration island because those are the files you replaced, or is it looking that way because that's what are in the files ?

Maaan, that's awesome, it's beautiful ! Do you think you could even make the first LBA2 mod out of that ? Like restored Zeelich or visitable Well of Sendell or something...
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Old 2012-02-15, 03:09
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- Polaris: Well I obviously copied the Celebration Island files as the original SENDELL.ILE and SENDELL.OBL aren't even present in the game all.

And visitable Well of Sendell is exactly what I'm trying to do. Based on Celebration Island as it's the closest thing to it that exists the game.
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Old 2012-02-15, 16:03
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Oh sorry, I misread, I thought you replaced celebration by sendell to access it.
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Old 2012-02-15, 17:06
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pretty cool idea Obras

Does the modding community have an LBA2 map editor?
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Old 2012-02-15, 20:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echomote View Post
pretty cool idea Obras

Does the modding community have an LBA2 map editor?
Sadly not, as the people who have the full specifications for the LBA 2 Island format, namely Link and his Team, for some reason refuse to release said specifications, leaving most of us to guess how most things are done (the scheme of all entries in the .ILE is easy to figure out, same for the height maps, but the rest is just difficult).
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Old 2012-02-25, 01:33
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I'm really impressed with what you can do Battler. You've done amazing things here and know a lot.

I think the missing Sendell scene in LBA2 was a hasteful change done either because of a deadline, like the robot on the island in LBA1, or, there is always the chance it was a really late plotchange, but I don't think so. If the references to the files are still in game, but the game doesn't bring you there, it must've been something changed in a very late stadium.

I always thought the cutscene with Sendell was rather short and not much revealing, but was indeed at the end of a very long fight to get there (the journey across multiple planets). Maybe it was a working scene previously, that just didn't catch on, and was removed because fixing it would have taken too much time.
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Old 2012-03-03, 07:26
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That's a great find... a mod to visit the well of sendell would be great... but knowing what the original developers had in mind would be even greater...
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Old 2012-03-03, 21:26
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Maybe Fred or someone have the files somewhere, someone could ask him.
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  #19  
Old 2012-03-03, 23:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_matrox View Post
Maybe Fred or someone have the files somewhere, someone could ask him.
I asked yaz0r who has the source code for both games, and he told me that in the output folder of his source code, he has both SENDELL.ILE and SENDELL.OBL but they're both 0 bytes.
Now I'm not sure if Frédérick Raynal or anyone from Adeline might still have the full versions of the files.

Anyway, my LBA 2 mod that adds visitable Well of Sendell (based on Celebration Island) is stuck at the moment at one problem: I added the change scene zone to the Desert Island harbor scene to make me go to Well of Sendell when going into one of the boxes of the shooting Esmer but the game refuses to acknowledge that zone's existence.
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Old 2012-03-04, 00:23
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What do you mean into one of the boxes? Do zones work on touch or on enter? If it is the latter, I don't think adding zones to boxes will work. Twinsen can't enter a box.
Is the zone present but not working, or the object of the zone itself rather not loaded at all?

Maybe you should put the zone next to the end of the pier, in case it's not allowed to overlap an object or something (the pier itself is also a case of its own, remember the car cannot be on it either).
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Last edited by J McKalling; 2012-03-04 at 00:29.
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Old 2012-03-04, 01:27
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Quote:
Is the zone present but not working, or the object of the zone itself rather not loaded at all?
Object of the zone? What? Zones have no objects. They're just invisible cubes that do something such as drop an item on ACTION press or teleport you to another scene when you walk into them. This one just refuses to do its job.

Quote:
Maybe you should put the zone next to the end of the pier, in case it's not allowed to overlap an object or something (the pier itself is also a case of its own, remember the car cannot be on it either).
I want it to make sense. With it being at the box, the box could then become interpreed as a secret teleporter. But an invisible teleporter in the end of the pier? Much less logical.

Quote:
I don't think adding zones to boxes will work. Twinsen can't enter a box.
Houses, in their 3D object forms as shown on outside island areas, are solid objects too. But with appropriate zones, Twinsen can enter them.
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Old 2012-03-04, 10:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
I asked yaz0r who has the source code for both games, and he told me that in the output folder of his source code, he has both SENDELL.ILE and SENDELL.OBL but they're both 0 bytes.
Just for curiosity's sake, why does he have the source code of both games? That's pretty badass.
The next question, I'm gonna answer myself: no, he can't share it because he's not allowed, am I right?
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Old 2012-03-04, 11:44
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I don't know what zones are technically, Battler. I just call everything an object if it is active ingame, but maybe "instance" is better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
...
I want it to make sense. With it being at the box, the box could then become interpreed as a secret teleporter. But an invisible teleporter in the end of the pier? Much less logical.
...
Of cource, I don't get how zones work yet. I just thought for the purpose of testing this hack, as you didn't seem to get it to work. All quircks aside, putting a zone in a free area might pose less conflict if at all.

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Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Houses, in their 3D object forms as shown on outside island areas, are solid objects too. But with appropriate zones, Twinsen can enter them.
That's why I need to know how zones work. I don't understand, does the game trigger a zone's function on Twinsen touching it, like in case of collision, or rather upon first entering, like after initial collision? Without knowing if it is overlapping or collision, you may never get one to work. For instance, if a zone triggers when Twinsen is at least partially within its borders, putting it at the same size at the same position of a box will never allow Twinsen to get in it as the box itself prevents collision.

*Edit:
On assumption the games collision system gives "solid" objects that don't allow movement higher priority than non-solids that do. If a solid box does not allow passthrough, adding a(n in)visible layer to it should't cause the box suddenly to become passable.
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Last edited by J McKalling; 2012-03-04 at 11:51.
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  #24  
Old 2012-03-04, 18:20
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Well of course I made sure that the zone in question also has a part in the few pixels of land before the box so you can actually walk into it. Otherwise it'd be unusable from the start.
However, you've made me think. What if I put it slightly too high above the ground making Twinsen never walk into it, thus it not working? I'll see if I move one part of it slightly lower.
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Old 2012-03-04, 18:29
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Looks like I missed something interesting. Supreme knowledge of the LBA 2 files for the win! Can you make a screenshot showing the visibility from the Oasis? I didn't know there was an unused space in desert island - it sure must be accessible in the regular game as well? Just with nothing there.
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