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  #1  
Old 2019-03-07, 04:38
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Getting your name out there

Right, so I know you guys will come with great advice on this. And I hope this will be one of those legendary threads that is worth reading again in the future (when I actually put plans into practice... soon).

So, in nowadays socially connected world, where people can show their love in the form of likes and followers, where fame is no longer held by and/or controlled by mainstream media, what would be some great advice to get your work to be recognised by a growing audience of legit people who are interested, and be recognised as a public figure / celebrity / famous artist?

To be quite sincere, I am the kind of person who is too involved with the guts of my work to be bothered with "promoting" it; but I do realise that if I ever want to "make it" I am going to have to stop neglecting this aspect. I do follow a series of indie artists - music, webcomics, youtube channels, etc. who achieved an integrity and consistent quality with their work and have a considerable presence online. And that's what I'd be aiming for. Just don't quite know how.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #2  
Old 2019-03-07, 10:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Right, so I know you guys will come with great advice on this. And I hope this will be one of those legendary threads that is worth reading again in the future (when I actually put plans into practice... soon).

So, in nowadays socially connected world, where people can show their love in the form of likes and followers, where fame is no longer held by and/or controlled by mainstream media, what would be some great advice to get your work to be recognised by a growing audience of legit people who are interested, and be recognised as a public figure / celebrity / famous artist?

To be quite sincere, I am the kind of person who is too involved with the guts of my work to be bothered with "promoting" it; but I do realise that if I ever want to "make it" I am going to have to stop neglecting this aspect. I do follow a series of indie artists - music, webcomics, youtube channels, etc. who achieved an integrity and consistent quality with their work and have a considerable presence online. And that's what I'd be aiming for. Just don't quite know how.
I think a combination of things, but since I am not there either, take it with a grainloads of salt.

1. first all, put up quality content. I do see a difference between one tune and the other. Wings of time got considerably more listens than other piano works. If listeners listen to one great tune and the next tune is shit, they go away.

This is the reason i want to focus my music into two categories: pure piano content under jesse gorter, and chill lofi beats under the name neko. my current channel will probably use doctor jesse or something, to not confuse the listeners and that will just be there for the old stuff.

2. have a clear brand, like i said above
3. post regulary
4. i guess you have to put marketing and money into it to reach your initial target audience, but not sure
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  #3  
Old 2019-03-08, 05:05
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
3. post regulary
Where do you usually post? just the usual social networks?

That's some really good advice you got there and all, but I feel I (or at least honestly try to) reach that already. The confusion starts when it comes to the general public reaction, and in actually cultivating a niche of my own, with consistent fans (who actually appreciate the work in itself and by itself, not because they happen to like me as a person). I am really not sure how to grow that audience, as you mention on item 4. Is money the solution?
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2019-03-08 at 05:14.
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  #4  
Old 2019-03-08, 07:22
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Do you often post music?

Cause i rarely see it if i am not mistaken..also a bit confused what style or audience you are going for. Kinda like me :')
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  #5  
Old 2019-03-09, 04:58
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Not often; I want people who heard me in the past to look for more or stumble accidentally and find out "wow this guy actually has a lot more cool tunes that I never knew of".
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #6  
Old 2019-03-09, 12:40
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what would be your bio?
Roy Rajabally is an artist who.....
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  #7  
Old 2019-03-09, 14:58
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
what would be your bio?
Roy Rajabally is an artist who.....
To be honest, I prefer writing album descriptions (as seen in my bandcamp) than bios. 'Who am I?' maybe not as interesting as 'What did I create?'.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #8  
Old 2019-03-09, 17:55
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
To be honest, I prefer writing album descriptions (as seen in my bandcamp) than bios. 'Who am I?' maybe not as interesting as 'What did I create?'.

ok cool but as you stated: "public figure / celebrity / famous artist" -- I do think you can only achieve that when you have an answer to the previous question. Unless you are like mike oldfield who does everything
but who else achieved that...
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  #9  
Old 2019-03-13, 17:22
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Hello! It's been a long time since I posted here, but this is a topic that greatly interests me. In fact, it can be area of great frustration and sometimes hopelessness, but recently I've come to greater peace about it all (I think...maybe!) Hope I've not missed the boat in joining the discussion... :P

Really interesting points raised by you two I think! Neko, you mentioned quality. No doubt the quality of something has a profound effect within its own dedicated sphere, but it's amazing to me how different music-heads can regard things from outside their world in such a disparaging way (though that doesn't always happen; I've also been positively surprising by how people of one musical tradition are open to music a million miles from their sonic world. But such instances in the mainstream are much rarer.) I've seen quite a lot that the 'right' circle isn't hearing the right music. In my own case, most or many of my friends are supportive, but don't actually really like the music I love to make; getting it out to those who might actually like it is the complex business we're all talking about (unless you are handed an unusually fortuitous set of circumstances!) Incidentally, I can improvise 'pretty' stuff to those same friends on the piano, and they might say, "why don't you just put that stuff out instead of that crazy other stuff!?"That's a journey still being navigated.
Somehow, miraculously, I financially live off my composing activities, but it seems there is no correlation in my own limited case (so far) between 'quality' and 'public success' (of course, these are subjective and problematic terms anyway, but whatever...) Sometimes the most flippantly made stuff will take off more, and other times that which you and the few who have heard it find more powerful gains no obvious traction. If the quality of the work has limited influence on gaining new outside listenership - because I've seen lots of quality music made by others 'flop' - maybe accessibility is the key? For me, as I alluded to above, the stuff that took a very long time to make and has the deepest musical / sound design explorations (and satisfy me the most) is also the work that has the least attention. The one track I’ve made that has got quite a bit more attention is something I banged out quickly in two afternoons with very little thought, but that’s because it has FKA Twigs on it, who went on to be famous.
The other pieces that has gained some traction is something from a film and has an obviously clear melody. The film provides a platform, or the 'way in' for many people. ‘Catchy’ melodies actually come easily to me, so I tend to avoid them in my own work because I want to delve into some less-obvious clustered territories that melt my brain. But of course it’s useful being able to write more traditionally/classically and so on for other work than your own personal projects (and I do value that side of things.) I probably couldn't be living off music if that wasn't a tool in the belt. But ultimately if one's tastes don't generally tally with the majority of what people want, it will probably make you miserable trying to force yourself to do that exclusively. Some people I know genuinely love writing 'pop' - it's their honest expression - and in that instance some more conventional marketing principles might apply (although even then I've seen 'good quality' pop-sounding releases appear and disappear without a trace.) But in so many areas this big question seems to be an unknown.

I mentioned a film above. One sure factor in all of this could be placement. If good quality content is placed in something with high visibility, then that can greatly help. But even then, it guarantees nothing. For example, a friend of mine wrote a song for a huge YouTube channel that has millions of subscribers (in Korea) as he was friends with the video makers. Did that help him? Well, the one song he made that was placed on their channel got millions of hits, but those same people showed no interest in his other music. He said it made barely a scratch on what he had already put out and what he was to put out after. Of course, sometimes a famous band can simply namedrop a smaller artist and that artist explodes as a result, but I'm just pointing out so many factors are at play, and people seem generally not to be generally interested in things outside of what they immediately know. Those millions of folk loved what my friend did on that channel, but seemed to have no inclination to explore the rest of his work. Perhaps the genres didn't match in the wider sense; his song for that channel was a one off joke ditty. It was beautiful for what it was, but it's kind of funny that the one 'silly' song he does for a comedy video has a million more hearers than all this other seriously great and deeper music he spends ages on and puts out.

Finally, you can have some cool associations, but that doesn't mean anything if other aspects of visibility don't happen. I don't say this in a name-droppy way (I hate all that nonsense...some of the most amazing musicians I have heard, nobody has heard of. Some of them are 18 year olds who make amazing music that only their mum, dad, dog, and 3 friends have heard! Me luckily being one of them) - but anyway, I happened to produce a track for Lana Del Rey many years ago. She liked it I think, but management rejected it. It sat on my SoundCloud for like 2 years with hardly any listens. Then, ONE person leaked it onto an obscure Lana Del Rey forum, and within a day it got hundred times more listens then it had had in two years! That incident was very interesting and sums this whole thing up for me.

So basically, I have no real answers other than hope for the miraculous, but want to keep discussing. :P And, in seriousness, I'm sure there's things we can do to help our cause in all of this. But some outside help and mysterious occurrences sure do make the most significant difference...Or us putting in a lot of consistent hard work for marketing makes a huge difference? I wouldn't know, as I've never done it. It takes up too much time away from music making! :P
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Last edited by CS2x; 2019-03-14 at 00:22.
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  #10  
Old 2019-03-13, 20:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS2x View Post
Hello! It's been a long time since I posted here, but this is a topic that greatly interests me. In fact, it can be area of great frustration and sometimes hopelessness, but recently I've come to greater peace about it all (I think...maybe!) Hope I've not missed the boat in joining the discussion... :P

Really interesting points raised by you two I think! Neko, you mentioned quality. No doubt the quality of something has a profound effect within its own dedicated sphere, but it's amazing to me how different music-heads can regard things from outside their world in such a disparaging way (thought that doesn't always happen; I've also been positively shocked by how people of one musical tradition are open to music a million miles from their sonic world. But such instances in the mainstream are much rarer.) I've seen quite a lot that the 'right' circle isn't hearing the right music. In my own case, most or many of my friends are supportive, but don't actually really like the music I love to make; getting it out to those who might actually like it is the complex business we're all talking about (unless you are handed an unusually fortuitous set of circumstances!) Incidentally, I can improvise 'pretty' stuff to those same friends on the piano, and they might say, "why don't you just put that stuff out instead of that crazy other stuff!?" Good question! That's a journey I'm still navigating...
Somehow, miraculously, I financially live off my composing activities, but it seems there is no correlation in my own limited case (so far) between 'quality' and 'public success' (of course, these are subjective and problematic terms anyway, but whatever...) Sometimes the most flippantly made stuff will take off more, and other times that which you and the few who have heard it find more powerful gains no obvious traction. If the quality of the work has limited influence on gaining new outside listenership - because I've seen lots of quality music made by others 'flop' - maybe accessibility is the key? For me, as I alluded to above, the stuff that took a very long time to make and has the deepest musical / sound design explorations (and satisfy me the most) is also the work that has the least attention. The one track I’ve made that has got quite a bit more attention is something I banged out quickly in two afternoons with very little thought, but that’s because it has FKA Twigs on it, who went on to be famous.
The other pieces that has gained some traction is something from a film and has an obviously clear melody. The film provides a platform, or the 'way in' for many people. ‘Catchy’ melodies actually come easily to me, so I tend to avoid them in my own work because I want to delve into some less-obvious clustered territories that melt my brain. But of course it’s useful being able to write more traditionally/classically and so on for other work than your own personal projects (and I do value that side of things.) I probably couldn't be living off music if that wasn't a tool in the belt. But ultimately if one's tastes don't generally tally with the majority of what people want, it will probably make you miserable trying to force yourself to do that exclusively. Some people I know genuinely love writing 'pop' - it's their honest expression - and in that instance some more conventional marketing principles might apply (although even then I've seen 'good quality' pop-sounding releases appear and disappear without a trace.) But in so many areas this is a big question.

But, I mentioned a film above. One sure factor in all of this could be placement. If good quality content is placed in something with high visibility, then that can greatly help. But even then, it guarantees nothing. For example, a friend of mine wrote a song for a huge YouTube channel that has millions of subscribers (in Korea) as he was friends with the video makers. Did that help him? Well, the one song he made that was placed on their channel got millions of hits, but those same people showed no interest in his other music. He said it made barely a scratch on what he had already put out and what he was to put out after. Of course, sometimes a famous band can simply namedrop a smaller artist and that artist explodes as a result, but I'm just pointing out so many factors are at play, and people seem generally not to be generally interested in things outside of what they immediately know. Those millions of folk loved what my friend did on that channel, but seemed to have no inclination to explore the rest of his work. Perhaps the genres didn't match in the wider sense; his song for that channel was a one off joke ditty. It was beautiful for what it was, but it's kind of funny that the one 'silly' song he does for a comedy video has a million more hearers than all this other seriously great and deeper music he spends ages on and puts out.

Finally, you can have some cool associations, but that doesn't mean anything if other aspects of visibility don't happen. I don't say this in a name-droppy way (I hate all that nonsense...some of the most amazing musicians I have heard, nobody has heard of. Some of them are 18 year olds who make amazing music that only their mum, dad, dog, and 3 friends have heard! Me luckily being one of them) - but anyway, I happened to produce a track for Lana Del Rey many years ago. She liked it I think, but management rejected it. It sat on my SoundCloud for like 2 years with hardly any listens. Then, ONE person leaked it onto an obscure Lana Del Rey forum, and within a day it got hundred times more listens then it had had in two years! That incident was very interesting and sums this whole thing up for me.

So basically, I have no real answers other than hope for the miraculous, but want to keep discussing. :P And, in seriousness, I'm sure there's things we can do to help our cause in all of this. But some outside help and mysterious occurrences sure do make the most significant difference...Or us putting in hard work for marketing makes a huge difference? I wouldn't know, as I've never done it. It takes up too much time away from music making!
I just don't think there is a big market for complex sounddesign music stuff? I love clear melodies, be interested in those pieces of you actually ^^

Cool that you live off music and produced for such a big artist. You are doing great man

I do think there is a line between quality and succes, but not a predictable one. Ofc quality itself is part subjective and part objective, so hard to judge. But I do think it all comes down to: does your work hit the right snare for your audience? So, try an find an audience for your work. Should be easier if you have a clear style i think.
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  #11  
Old 2019-03-15, 11:53
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Regular content is a must have, it can make your work be shared more often which can led into more people following you.

Another important one its consistency, and have a unique style. If your style is in constant change and you haven't found your ground, it's hard to attract people. I am pretty sure you have seen/listen a lot of content that you recognise instantly. For me that will be a key to grow a community.
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  #12  
Old 2019-03-18, 18:44
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Originally Posted by CS2x View Post
Some of them are 18 year olds who make amazing music that only their mum, dad, dog, and 3 friends have heard! Me luckily being one of them
This one sentence touched me deeply, and speaks to me on so many levels.

I'll tell you a story; it was one such teens (mbn member Alchemist) who indirectly brought me to this forum and INTO MUSIC; my brother used to listen some of his tunes he posted here and I was always so fond of them, then one day I asked "what is this music you keep listening to?" and I was amazed to find out it was music made not by some unknown guy far away and out of reach, but rather an unknown guy far away who I could reach out to and befriend, as my bro told me "if you like his songs so much why don't you join magicball and say something to him? it's really easy!". At the time the realization that with computers + internet I could escape my small and closed social circle of friends to be able to meet people who made cool music all over the world AS WELL AS becoming one myself creating my own music for others to listen was one of the major changes of my life, perhaps even a boyhood to adulthood passage, since my interest in music and sounds grew IMMENSELY after that, and are to remain ever growing and evolving until perhaps the end of my life.

P.S.: on a deeper note, what actually brought me into music was the music of and the amazingness of LBA since, without which, my bro wouldn't have come here, as well as Alchemist, and all of us in this cozy little forum.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2019-03-18 at 19:05.
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  #13  
Old 2019-03-23, 06:46
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
I do think there is a line between quality and succes, but not a predictable one. Ofc quality itself is part subjective and part objective, so hard to judge. But I do think it all comes down to: does your work hit the right snare for your audience? So, try an find an audience for your work. Should be easier if you have a clear style i think.
I think CS2x pinned down some way more important and deeper points than that, Jesse.

In a nutshell; even if you did "hit the right snare", is that going to reach the right people, or die into oblivion save for a few select weirdos who happened to have found that one obscure track of yours --- which happens to be, by your own opinion, your very best gem? and, do people really want gems, or they'd rather have 10 filler songs which are predictable and easily digestible targeted for a certain already established audience?
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Last edited by SpaceGuitarist; 2019-03-23 at 06:52.
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  #14  
Old 2019-03-28, 15:02
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SGK: you have a brother that used to come here? what is his nick?
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there's no room for subtleties, which are so important in personalities such as mine.
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Old 2019-03-28, 20:52
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You have a brother ?!


(Also, hi Reek)
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Old 2019-03-29, 00:56
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lol @ your amusement, guys

yes I do and his nick is... a secret. hah!
ok you are really curious eh?
here's a little riddle for you to find out who he was:

a magician he was,
but didn't hang out at the school in Desert Island
his magic was most useful
over our lovely Citadel Island!


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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #17  
Old 2019-03-29, 07:39
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Do we have a weather wizard avatar user?

^^
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  #18  
Old 2019-03-29, 12:35
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
I think CS2x pinned down some way more important and deeper points than that, Jesse.

In a nutshell; even if you did "hit the right snare", is that going to reach the right people, or die into oblivion save for a few select weirdos who happened to have found that one obscure track of yours --- which happens to be, by your own opinion, your very best gem? and, do people really want gems, or they'd rather have 10 filler songs which are predictable and easily digestible targeted for a certain already established audience?
Well you want to be an influencer, recognized artist yes? That was the question?

As I see it, and considering what you guys all said you have two ways:

1. the version where you commit to broadly one style, make consistent work that is recognizable, has a target audience and hits the right 'snare' (this is such a dutch expression i guess.....didn't realize it doesn't translate, lol) for that audience. This is the easy blue pill of the matrix. Still hard to be sucessfull as you got to be GOOD in the actual genre and there is competition.

2. go the mike oldfield way.
He got famous for creating something new. Tubular bells = his gem, his most personal and his favourite and most non compromising work (save amarok) which in fact created a whole new audience. He is the type of dude that can write a new album which may be pop, next his album is ambient and all sound totally different. Fans like him for him. He is his own style.

This is the hard version and difficult to achieve. You basically need to have an album or a song that somehow magically connects to people and stands out.

However, even then you get people who keep comparing your new work to that original break through. Mike always got fans complaining about his first 3 albums, and he even went back a zillion times to tubular bells in order to keep succes.
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  #19  
Old 2019-03-29, 12:54
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lol @ your amusement, guys

yes I do and his nick is... a secret. hah!
ok you are really curious eh?
here's a little riddle for you to find out who he was:

a magician he was,
but didn't hang out at the school in Desert Island
his magic was most useful
over our lovely Citadel Island!


soothsayer!
but what was his previous account?
middle-quetch?
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  #20  
Old 2019-03-29, 13:36
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soothsayer makes sense since he's from brazil, but how did you think of him? don't see what it has to do with sgk's riddle




edit: on a side note, i found a banned account called StephenMildred, and he seems to be one of the last visitors on many user profiles, such as this one: https://forum.magicball.net/member.php?u=1687


also i vaguely remember seeing this name here before, but i can't remember who it was or what he did, or if it just a bot
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  #21  
Old 2019-03-29, 13:45
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Polaris Polaris is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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I think we agreed he was a bot.
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  #22  
Old 2019-03-29, 14:01
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Neko Neko is offline
Neko
 
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magical search powers

don't see the link with the riddle either
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  #23  
Old 2019-03-29, 14:23
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Reek Reek is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko View Post
magical search powers

don't see the link with the riddle either

there's no link, it's right there in his post you quoted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
there's no room for subtleties, which are so important in personalities such as mine.
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  #24  
Old 2019-03-29, 14:23
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
the legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Brasil
Posts: 7,068
Quote:
2. go the mike oldfield way.
He got famous for creating something new. Tubular bells = his gem, his most personal and his favourite and most non compromising work (save amarok) which in fact created a whole new audience. He is the type of dude that can write a new album which may be pop, next his album is ambient and all sound totally different. Fans like him for him. He is his own style.

This is the hard version and difficult to achieve. You basically need to have an album or a song that somehow magically connects to people and stands out.
2 all the way, most definitely!
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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  #25  
Old 2019-03-29, 14:27
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
the legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Brasil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reek View Post
there's no link, it's right there in his post you quoted
I think he means there is no connection/relation to my riddle...

Aye, you guys got me. Neko, the creepy stalker did, that is. I dunno how did you find out it was Soothsayer but I am glad you did, I was 100% sure it was Bersimon because that's the nickname he used everywhere... Soothsayer dates to such a prehistoric era, I barely remember he used to go by this nick as well. Alas, its kind of a magician too so, not that much off.
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Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"
sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.
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