Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > Off topic
Buy LBA1/Relentless from GOG.com Buy LBA1/Relentless from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from GOG.com Buy Little big Adventure from GOG.com or DotEmu Buy Little big Adventure 2 from DotEmu or GOG.com

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Off topic General off-topic chat goes in here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2003-08-04, 20:48
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
Time Travel

Ok, can the people with the proper knowledge, please tell me what are the current theories and the current facts regarding time travel? please try to detail it as much as possible, I'm not physican, but i have good understanding capabilty.

DarkFlame --> I'd highly appreciate your contribution to this thread, since you seem to be quite knowladgeable in this

And anyone else who can help, please, i want to learn as much as i can.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2003-08-04, 21:34
ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
weee
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Viking Mothership, Living Quarters
Posts: 21,212
current theories and the current facts regarding time travel:
IMPOSSIBLE.

Maybe possible going to the future or going to the "past" in anohter "dimension" or something though.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2003-08-04, 21:36
Bomba!'s Avatar
Bomba! Bomba! is offline
The Prince of all Saiyans
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Unfortunately - Earth.
Posts: 2,353
Send a message via ICQ to Bomba!
http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.preston/Time.html
__________________
"All men dream, but not equally.Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." ~Thomas Edward Lawrence

"When you were born, the world rejoiced and you cried. Live your life, so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry." ~ Indian Saying
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2003-08-04, 21:37
morshem's Avatar
morshem morshem is offline
Magic level: Ice Ball
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Beʼer Sheva, Israel
Posts: 20,093
Send a message via MSN to morshem
Fly from America to Australia ^_^.
__________________
Hlomap, my little LBA website.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2003-08-04, 21:44
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
ok, first a diffinition for convience:

Time Travel = Controlled time travel forwards or backwards relatively to the normal "rate" of time.
(that is, we move forward though time already at an amazingly fast speed of 60 seconds per minute....yet that dosnt count as time travel )

Dimension = a pure direction, all other directions are compossed of mixtures of these "pure" ones.

*NOT TO BE CONFUSED IN ANY WAY WITH THE SCI-FI NONSENSE VIEW OF DEMENSIONS MEANING OTHER WORLDS.
(They really mean other -sets- of demensions, or an alternative Phase to are matter)*

4th demension = The 4 demensional axis which is used to reprecent time. Theres no logical numbering of the demensions, but its generaly taken as follows:

1st,2nd,3rd = Length, Width, Height = X,Y,Z (co-ords)
4th = Time = W

Each demension is at 90 degrees to the others.
This is easy to imagine with the first 3, but a bit harder with the 4th.
Time is at 90 degrees to all spaciel demensions.
As our eyes can only see a 2D steroscoptic projection of a 3D world, we have never evolved a capacity to "visualise" 4D objects...at least, ot easily.

Speed = The ratio of any combination of the first 3 demensions compared to the 4th. (think about it....Mph = Mile/Hours = a ratio between space and time)


--------------
Time Travel
--------------

Forward time travel is easy; We have done it, and in effect everyone does it every day of there lives.

According to Einstine there isnt a big clock with "UNIVERSE TIME" on it, we each have are own different clocks....which in turn can only be messured relative to other clocks.

This is *exactly* like space, there is no absolute locations.
You can only messure one thing in comparison too another....common sense really

What determains the time/clock we are in?

Well, the difference between our "clock" and someone else's is totality determained by : the speed we are traveling at compared to them.

This has been proved using atomic clocks on airplanes.

The faster you travel, the slower you go

ok, that sounds stupid, but we are talking about different things here. The faster you move though space, the slower you move though time.
This is were the cliché of..
"Time slows down as you approch the speed of light".
appears


Forward time travel is possible, even using todays technology.
Just move quickly.
We could build a space ship now, make it solar powered (ion/fusion drive with a lot of fuel, or maybe a solar sail)
then let is accelerate.

When it returns to earth, the people inside could have traveled for 50 days, and earth time could have moved on by 50 years!

The crew of the craft went slower though time (or, from
their point of view the universe speeded up)

Thus, accelerated forward time travel is a fact

Now lets get a small point out the way here:
---------
There is no light speed limit, its nonsense.
For a light speed limit to exist, no objects in the universe could move. (because no two objects could either travel appart from eachover at C or above...the universe couldnt move).

However, that is my view....99.99% of the world disagree's with me, so as far as this discusion goes I am presuming they are correct

All that I have said is current scientific knowledge, later I will move onto the following topics:

*Why Paradoxs Are a Myth of Time Travel

*Current thorertical ways of *backward* Time Travel. (sorry Choasfish...the thoerys say its possible)

*Likelyhood of us ever achieving it, and the my person views of the limitations.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff

Last edited by Darkflame; 2003-08-04 at 21:51.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2003-08-04, 22:07
Morden279 Morden279 is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,678
Don't forget the Flux Capacitor!

Regards,
Morden
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2003-08-04, 22:11
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
First of all thanks, much appreicated.



Quote:
When it returns to earth, the people inside could have traveled for 50 days, and earth time could have moved on by 50 years!
Does mean, that everyone on earth would age 50 years, and the people inside will age a certain amount of time which is less than 50 years? (by age, i mean, the physical change that occurs as time passes)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2003-08-04, 22:38
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
yes
Exactly that.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2003-08-04, 23:28
Bushmeister's Avatar
Bushmeister Bushmeister is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,097
Argh, all this stuff gives me a headache. If I want to think about time travel I watch Back To The Future, which Morden very well referenced, and if I want to think about inter-dimensional travel, I just watch Sliders.
__________________
'But when push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love. Even if it's not a good idea.'
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2003-08-05, 11:37
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
But, alas, neither of those things are very accurate.

Doc's famous car seemed to use time-teleportation;
instant movement from one point in time to another.

This is impossible, or at least, has no scientific base's at present.
Traveling instantly from one point in time to another, is exactly like trying to move from one point in space to another.
In fact, as far as physics is concerned; Time is nothing special, its just another direction in space.
Hence the term; Spacetime.

Trying to get from Z to A without going backwards though the alphbeta just isnt in the laws of physics.


Sliders is mearly inaccurate in terminology.

You cant travel too another demension.
I mean, can you travel to Length or Height?

You can either travel through anougher demension (say, the 5th), which could take you too an alternative earth withen just a a few meters of travel. (it would really be another piece of a 5D world though, not a new world...but too you it would seem like a seperare; different place)

Or you could travel too a different *set* of demensions.
This would be like rotateing yourself in a weird ever-worldly way.
This is beyond my compression to imagine too at this point
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2003-08-05, 12:15
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
Ok, so we know, that the faster we move, the slower time effects us.
So, one day, we might be able to see what's 100 years from now, but we'd have to wiat 100 years

But, do scientists have any statistics to match the fact stated at the top of the post?
For example:
Every time the velocity of a certain object increases by X (in any one of the 3 dimensions), it's velocity in the 4th dimension will decrease by Y% ?
(by y%, i mean: 100% = aging 60 seconds per minute)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2003-08-05, 12:56
Bushmeister's Avatar
Bushmeister Bushmeister is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,097
I never said these two productions were accurate. But I do know for one thing that it is more possible "to travel to another dimension" than

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkflame
travel too another demension.
I watch them to spark my imagination and be entertained, the real concepts of what they talk of are, for now, too complicated for me.
__________________
'But when push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love. Even if it's not a good idea.'
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2003-08-05, 13:19
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
The thing is, if the programs used the correct terms to beging with, you would already understand most of it

Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
Ok, so we know, that the faster we move, the slower time effects us.
So, one day, we might be able to see what's 100 years from now, but we'd have to wiat 100 years

But, do scientists have any statistics to match the fact stated at the top of the post?
For example:
Every time the velocity of a certain object increases by X (in any one of the 3 dimensions), it's velocity in the 4th dimension will decrease by Y% ?
(by y%, i mean: 100% = aging 60 seconds per minute)
Yes, they do
You seem to understand this perfectly.

Basicaly, its all too do with the speed "C", lightspeed.
If your traveling at C, your speed though time is reduced too Zero....the universe around you would seem to be moving infintely fast. (you, personaly, would feel the same, and be able to interact normaly with other people on your craft)

so:
When Speed=C then y%=100%
Then Speed=0 then y%=0%

I am not sure of the precise formular offhand, it would be simple if it wasnt for the other factor that effects 4D speed:
Gravity.
Gravity pulls object though time as well as space
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2003-08-05, 13:37
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
Yeah, i figured the differences in speed would have to be significant to really effect your aging.. (difference between running and walking =not significant)

oh, and i was wondering:
1)Suppose i'm in a spacecraft, travelling at a velocity of 1\2 C.
For every minute that passes on earth, i will age 30 seconds, is that correct?

And, assuming that is correct:
2)while i am on the forementiond spacecraft, what would a mintue on earth seem like to me? 60 secons, or 30 seconds?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2003-08-05, 17:05
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
Yeah, i figured the differences in speed would have to be significant to really effect your aging.. (difference between running and walking =not significant)

oh, and i was wondering:
1)Suppose i'm in a spacecraft, travelling at a velocity of 1\2 C.
For every minute that passes on earth, i will age 30 seconds, is that correct?

And, assuming that is correct:
2)while i am on the forementiond spacecraft, what would a mintue on earth seem like to me? 60 secons, or 30 seconds?
1) Not that simple im affried
You see, that would only be true if the relationship was liner (that is, a stright line on the graph).
Its more likely to be an exponant of some kind.
(that is, a curved graph)

2) Time would seem 100% normal. 60 seconds a minute and all that

Spacetime is relative, you see.

Your already traveling at amazing speeds now...the earth spins, it goes around the sun ect ect.
We dont feel any of it.

We cant detect movement, only changes in movement. (acceleration).

In the same way, we cant detect what speed we are going though time...only compare it too other things.

For those on the craft the universe has speeded up, they are going at the same speed they always were

For the universe the craft and occupants have slowed down.

__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2003-08-05, 17:14
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
1) ok, got it.

2)Just making sure:
Suppose i'm travelling in a craft in a certain speed, that makes me age one year, for every 2 earth years (if it's possible for the realtion between earth time and my time to be constant). So, i fly in my craft for 4 years, i age 4 years, i feel 4 years go by.
Than i come back to earth, and 8 years have passed.
Correct?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2003-08-05, 17:41
Mannesh's Avatar
Mannesh Mannesh is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: u.k
Posts: 594
cool time travel

first i like to say i'm well interested in this time travel shit. As we all should know, none of us how still or fast we are, are in the same time, this is becuase everysingle molecule in us would never be the exact same speed as anyone elses, which was basicly einsteins theory of relativity. Second tests and proof have shown ensteins theroy is ture. To show it is true they did a test by sending 2 rockets around the world at different speeds. Both these rockets had 1 digital clock in set very accuratly, lets say at 12:00 (this did happen but can't remember the exact time). They sent one rocket at an extremely fast speed, and the other one at a slower speed. Once they both landed, the rocket at high speed, it's clock shew a lower time than the rocket sent at the slower speed. So the fast rockets time was 12:45, and the slow rockets time 12:50, and earths time, when setting the digital clocks 12:53. So it shows that time is always different, and that the faster you go the more different time is, which brings us to speed. Now the faster something goes, the slower time gets, now this may sound confusing but it's true. Now theory has it that when you goet to the speed of light, time stops. But on my point of view time wouldn't stop since light it self would stop. Now to acheive the speed of light you need to go 360,000 km/s, and to get enough energy to do that, you would need nuclear fushion, which is produced by stars. This is when atoms are heated up to a temperature so great, every single atom is used, and will last you and infinit amount of time. We cannot do this since we haven't got anything that can contain anything so hot. But to show how good nuclear fushion, if you had a stick of gum, and fushioned it, it would last you all the electricity in your house for a life time, or 14. Now once we've acheive this, we can acheive tiome travel, well thats to the past anyway, since i think (and there are theorys) that if you travel faster than the speed of light you will start to head back in time, and the faster you go, the more faster you will go back. Now time travel to the future i don't have a great knowledge on it, but i don't believe it's possible, there are theorys on wormholes(two way vortex) and shit, but that could just send you to an unkown dimension, and is not at all accurate, because you could go anywhere.

if you have read this, thnx it took a long time to type
__________________

Xchanger is there such a tool?

Or just the imagination of a boy...

amygdala

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2003-08-05, 17:55
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
That's exactly why i don't understand how can we travel at the speed of light. I mean, we can't NOT age.
So if we DO reach the speed of light, and time DOES stop moving..doesn't that mean we'll...freeze...or something like that?

And besides, if time stops moving for us, and the universe moves infinitly fast, that's...problematic to imagine, i mean, for example:

Suppose i travel in the speed of light for 1 second. then i slow down again. during that one second, an infinity of time past. "infinity" includes in it, one day, one year, one century. but which one of those will have passed?!
In other words, i just can't comprehend the idea of an infinity of time moving.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2003-08-05, 17:55
Mannesh's Avatar
Mannesh Mannesh is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: u.k
Posts: 594
to not get mixed up with darkflame, i was talking mainly about braking the speed of light which in result will send us back in time, but he is still talking about that if we travel fast very fast, even 1% before the speed of light it may seem a few days to them and according to there watches, but will be 100's and 1000's of years more for everything else.
__________________

Xchanger is there such a tool?

Or just the imagination of a boy...

amygdala

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2003-08-05, 18:09
Mannesh's Avatar
Mannesh Mannesh is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: u.k
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally posted by Anakin
That's exactly why i don't understand how can we travel at the speed of light. I mean, we can't NOT age.
So if we DO reach the speed of light, and time DOES stop moving..doesn't that mean we'll...freeze...or something like that?

And besides, if time stops moving for us, and the universe moves infinitly fast, that's...problematic to imagine, i mean, for example:

Suppose i travel in the speed of light for 1 second. then i slow down again. during that one second, an infinity of time past. "infinity" includes in it, one day, one year, one century. but which one of those will have passed?!
In other words, i just can't comprehend the idea of an infinity of time moving.
First of all there has been a large argument that when we travel at the speed of light, will it stop or not. I say no since light itself would be frozen, and also the speed of light can't escape black holes which shows black holes travel faster than the speed of light, and there not just stuck in one place. And yes if you had done that for one sec, the graduall build up to get there would have made an effect, but even if you went there instantly, and came back, i would say, to the earth, it would have been oh so many years like millions, and billions. And anything is possible, but i think once you hit the speed of light you can keep on going, you won't stop or freez. But something has just occured to me that i will reply with.
__________________

Xchanger is there such a tool?

Or just the imagination of a boy...

amygdala

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2003-08-05, 18:22
Mannesh's Avatar
Mannesh Mannesh is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: u.k
Posts: 594
Now what just hit me is that if things like the black hole travel faster than the speed of light, and still move, well either a black hole is sucking eveything backwards in time, or that the speed of light is not the speed point. Since scientists say you will freeze at the speed of light, yet light hasn't frozen, and neither has a black hole, unless that is the black hole is sucking everything up backwards. I think you need to go faster than the speed of light (since light isn't frozen), so instead of 360,000 km/s, but maybe 500,000 km/s, 600,000 km/s, or even 10,000,000 km/s, since if a black hole can pull in the speed of light, it must therefor be faster than the speed of light, because it has not forzen(and i don't think it is sucking up things backwards), so i do not reckon the speed of light is the speed point, for entering backwards into time, or into a different dimension. And now to think of it, they may never be a point, or if we do get to that point, we will freeze, "since to first go backwards, you need to stop going forwards". My new quote i made up, and like.
__________________

Xchanger is there such a tool?

Or just the imagination of a boy...

amygdala

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2003-08-05, 20:11
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Quote:
2)Just making sure:
Suppose i'm travelling in a craft in a certain speed, that makes me age one year, for every 2 earth years (if it's possible for the realtion between earth time and my time to be constant). So, i fly in my craft for 4 years, i age 4 years, i feel 4 years go by.
Than i come back to earth, and 8 years have passed.
Correct?
If 1 year of your "personal" time will pass for every 2 years of earth time.
Then yes, thats exactly it, you would have moved forward by 4 years, while earth has moved forward by 8.

Effectively, every second you live at that speed 2 pass's on earth.
It really is time traveling into the future really.

Quote:
That's exactly why i don't understand how can we travel at the speed of light. I mean, we can't NOT age.
So if we DO reach the speed of light, and time DOES stop moving..doesn't that mean we'll...freeze...or something like that?

And besides, if time stops moving for us, and the universe moves infinitly fast, that's...problematic to imagine, i mean, for example:

Suppose i travel in the speed of light for 1 second. then i slow down again. during that one second, an infinity of time past. "infinity" includes in it, one day, one year, one century. but which one of those will have passed?!
In other words, i just can't comprehend the idea of an infinity of time moving.
well, its very hard to explain...there will never be a point were you actualy expirence infinity of time passing.
Just more and more time would pass, it would approach infinity.
Thats *kinda* where the idea of nothing can travel faster then light comes in.
Its not that they cant, its just that time is frozen for anything that reachs that speed;
ie. Light itself.
Light is frozen...in time...NOT IN SPACE.

However, all of this completely ignores gravity.
Gravity has the power to move objects though time that are (relative to us, static)
Gravity, and bends in space allow time travel more easily (ill explain later)



Quote:
Now to acheive the speed of light you need to go 360,000 km/s, and to get enough energy to do that, you would need nuclear fushion, which is produced by stars. This is when atoms are heated up to a temperature so great, every single atom is used, and will last you and infinit amount of time. We cannot do this since we haven't got anything that can contain anything so hot. But to show how good nuclear fushion, if you had a stick of gum, and fushioned it, it would last you all the electricity in your house for a life time, or 14. Now once we've acheive this, we can acheive tiome travel, well thats to the past anyway, since i think (and there are theorys) that if you travel faster than the speed of light you will start to head back in time, and the faster you go, the more faster you will go back. Now time travel to the future i don't have a great knowledge on it, but i don't believe it's possible, there are theorys on wormholes(two way vortex) and shit, but that could just send you to an unkown dimension, and is not at all accurate, because you could go anywhere.
sorry dude
Up untill this point you were completely correct.

You dont need anything special to go at light speed, as long as you keep chucking stuff behind you, you will accelerate.
As space is near-frictionless, you can just keep doing this till your going as fast as you like.
(obviously, the quicker and more stuff you chuck behind you the faster you go )

Fussion is the process of combining elements together to make more (heavy) elements. As they combine a certain amount of mater is converted into energy...giving us a hell of a lot of power for very little mass destoryed.
It is not infinte though

Unfortunatly not.
We have actualy achieved Fusion on earth, a few times.
Hot fusion, like the sun.
We can do this both in the form of Bombs, and under controlled conditions.
Unfortunatly, due to ineffiencys we can not do it stably and continiously like with fission power stations
The energy needed to do a contiously fusion is actualy more then the power generated. (mainly due to trying to simulate the temperatute of the sun).
If it was infinte power generated we would be laughing...its a lot...but to do it takes even more power.

Hence the search for "cold fussion"....thoerticaly possible, but not achievable for awhile in practice.
This would give us a lot of power, without having to make a sun

Quote:
light can't escape black holes which shows black holes travel faster than the speed of light, and there not just stuck in one place. And yes if you had done that for one sec, the graduall build up to get there would have made an effect, but even if you went there instantly, and came back, i would say, to the earth, it would have been oh so many years like millions, and billions. And anything is possible, but i think once you hit the speed of light you can keep on going, you won't stop or freez. But something has just occured to me that i will reply with.
Ok, very important point here, and its fairly new too.
Light cant escape black holes, according to present thoery, indeed.

But that dosnt make the black hole "go" faster then light.
It means the black hole has enough mass to pull lights into it.

This *instantly* means light has mass....which in turn means occarding to thoerys, it cant go at the speed of light.....wait...hello? light cant go at light speed?
There is a problem with the thoery, which is being worked on now.
IMO,"real" light probably travels at 1/infintely less then C.
Giving it a small amount of mass, allowing it to get pulled into a black hole.

At no point however, is the black hole going faster then light.

Even the gravity of the black hole dosnt have to go at light speed.
(think about it, its not a race...the light will be heading mostly towards the BH already, it just has to bend it towards the centre)

In fact, a neat feature of a black hole is its "self-sealing".
Once the black hole is dense enough, even its own gravity is sucked into it .
This means theres a limit to how much gravity it can suck with.
Dont be mistaken, you will still be attracted the the black hole.
But it will be by the gravity that "escaped" its own pull seconds before it collapsed. (ie the gravity it has when it used to be a sun).


Quote:
"since to first go backwards, you need to stop going forwards".
Your presuming there is a "forwards" and a "backwards"....sometimes you can just turn in an arc..at no point do you stop

As I pointed out earlier, you can time travel without "moveing", but it will require diagrams, so im going to wait.
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2003-08-05, 21:09
Mannesh's Avatar
Mannesh Mannesh is offline
Magic Ball Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: u.k
Posts: 594
Quoting on everything, well almost everything darkflame said.

Thnx for clearing some things up, i'll stick to my old theory at the moment, but i forgot about you don't need fushion to reach lightspeed because like you said, space is almost frictionlist so it will go on forever, unless it hits something (einstein had talked about this by using a table and table polish as examples). And i did know that fushion did bind the atoms together, just didn't explain it, but i never knew they had made fushion work serveral times, i know that some scientist claimed to make cold fushion, but could never proove it, i did know energy of fushion would not be infinit, because nothing can contain an infinit amount of energy (not even the sun). So basicly i did now all of it, except we have suceeded in fushion a few times.

All the other shit about the speed point and the black hole, was a theory i made up today. And i think myself time has not got a backwards and forwards, since lets say you count up to 70, ...68 69 70 you would not then go straight to zero and go backwards, 0 -1 -2 ... I was just a bit hyped up with my theory.
__________________

Xchanger is there such a tool?

Or just the imagination of a boy...

amygdala

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2003-08-05, 21:20
Reek's Avatar
Reek Reek is offline
Party animal
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: israel
Posts: 9,487
Send a message via ICQ to Reek Send a message via MSN to Reek
OK, I know how black holes are created.
They're created every time a big star (really big, 9 times bigger than the sun i think) "dies".

As far as i know, the movement of starts is relatively insignificant.
So, do black holes move more (change location in a shorter period of time) than the stars they once were?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2003-08-06, 12:15
Darkflame's Avatar
Darkflame Darkflame is offline
Classic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sol, Earth, NL
Posts: 23,836
Send a message via ICQ to Darkflame Send a message via AIM to Darkflame Send a message via MSN to Darkflame
Mannesh ~ Thats ok, i have lots of crazy thoerys too....im am just sticking to the "knowen" science for now

Quote:
So, do black holes move more (change location in a shorter period of time) than the stars they once were?
I dont believe so, in fact they might move a lot less (because there not effected so much by other stars gravity.

I think Mannesh was talking about the "reaction speed" of the black hole....the speed of the gravity sucking stuff in....not the speed of its "movement".

We run into problems talking about the speed of gravity.
Its unproved as yet whether Einstine was right or not.
(he said that changes in gravity spread out at C...other scientists still think gravity is instantanoius).

Imagine the sun suddenly vanished.
Would the earth still orbit it for a few minutes?
Or would it start flying away from it straight away?

We dont know as yet which is true
__________________
http://fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
-
Phones & Tricorders & Blobs & Bombs & 3D Printers & TVIntros also;stuff
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
the uLTimate animal threaD!1!11 CS2x Off topic 4 2003-12-04 19:05
Kilo.. Mega.. Giga.. Tera..? ChaosFish Off topic 47 2003-08-05 11:59
The state of this forum is dreadful! CS2x Off topic 0 2003-07-20 05:04
Continuation Lightwing Fan Creations - General 15 2001-01-30 21:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:17.


News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, the Magicball Network