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Little Script Adventure An open-source 3D engine with assets and tools for all future LBA fan-games.

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  #3776  
Old 2012-07-26, 15:52
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Those numbers mean how many times each sample should loop. Depends on distance platform has to do, you play more or less times. So when platform start, I run a sequence just like a playlist, but I don't stop it. It stops by itself. The wait() thing is because I want engine to do the start sound sample before moving.
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  #3777  
Old 2012-07-26, 19:04
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I think that it`ll be more convenient to make the start/loop/end sounds, dependent from the waypoints. In fact, you could change these numbers to represent each waypoint number (i.e. tell the platform to play this sound, until it reaches waypoint 1, then play the next sound once or until reaching other waypoint) Such numbering like now will only desynchronize the animations and the sounds and it`ll make the syncing job harder.
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  #3778  
Old 2012-07-26, 19:33
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Looking at how much more code we'll be having for each object, maybe there could be a dropdown box to choose ready scripts in the script window?
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  #3779  
Old 2012-07-26, 19:37
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Yes I agree with you, the playlist thing complicates a lot things.
Is it annoying if end sample is played at any point of loop sample ?
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  #3780  
Old 2012-07-26, 19:43
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@Jasiek : OK, we could either use the code in the script box or selecting the code from a file list. Since nodes are independant of scripts, having a 2 position platform with short or long distance would be same script, specially with the Horadrim idea.
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  #3781  
Old 2012-07-26, 21:17
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Sort of like loading files with scropts I guess, but I'd rather it be that the text file with the scripts would have a NAME line that would naturally be the scripts name and a CONTENT line that would contain the script itself. Sort of like your map format! But all the scripts would be in one place.

Now when I'd choose from a roll down list I'd choose the name of the script instead of browsing for the damned file. Doing this would sstore the script for that object in the .map (as it is now), but loading a different script from the list for that object would overwrite what is stored in the .map.

Main idea is that if you make lets say a door script that is the same for a huge amount of objects, you will only have to select it from the list for new objects, and if you will want to change something en masse - like add sounds to the doors, you won't have to change each script by hand (I guess you could do this in a text editor really quick though...),
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  #3782  
Old 2012-07-26, 21:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Yes I agree with you, the playlist thing complicates a lot things.
Is it annoying if end sample is played at any point of loop sample ?
The thing I was talking about is that each sound sample could be played or stopped in dependence of the waypoints. We even could use the waypoints in more advanced way, not only sounds or animations, but with events, even cutscenes.

EDIT: What Jasiek proposes, brings back my suggestion about the node programming. All stuff are predefined and you only have to drag/drop them with very little modifications needed. David, I know it`ll make you do much work for it, but later it`ll be like a symphony. Did you took a look at the python thingy I posted few pages back? It`ll be a great starting point. It`s made for different purposes, but the good thing is that it saves all stuff in XML format. You could easily change it to save as LUA. The editor could load the predefined AI scripts later.

Last edited by Horadrim; 2012-07-26 at 21:28.
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  #3783  
Old 2012-07-27, 01:17
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I guess drag and drop is a good thing for the future of the editor, but at this point I think adding it might detract from development?

On the other hand a file for scripts and a dropdown list should be relatively fast to add and would speed and ease level making a lot?
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  #3784  
Old 2012-07-27, 02:43
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The drag and drop is just visualizing, which as function, could be taken from somewhere else - a small project would be absolutely perfect. The one I mentioned is one of the many. The other part is the same, no matter if you`ll make it as dropdown menu or drag & drop. Having in mind David`s abilities, I doubt it`ll take him more than 2 or 3 days to implement such thing if he has sample from other project.
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  #3785  
Old 2012-07-27, 03:19
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This thingy is for textures, but most of it`s source could be useful for such undertaking:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/neotextureedit/
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  #3786  
Old 2012-07-27, 10:44
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Can you explain me a bit more the idea with nodes ?
I don't see the link with the nodes we have, which are just coordinates
I can do a list of scripts just as the list of particles texture. All scripts would be in a single folder, and a list display all of them. If you externally update the script, it is applied everywhere since only the name of the script is written in the map file.
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  #3787  
Old 2012-07-27, 16:36
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Okay, currently, we`re dealing with the platform`s behavior. What I`m talking about is to make the platforms do everything, in dependence of their position, in other words - using the waypoints, which as you said - they`re coordinates. BUT, what if these coordinates have are a bit more materialized - I mean with the nodes. All waypoint nodes will be the predefined scripts, Jasiek talked about, but with this difference, that using the nodes as visual content, will be like the proxy objects in the map. Each scenegraph node will be limited to commands in dropdown list (again what Jasiek wants), with commands, which are usable and allowed to the platform for example. In fact, we could use one and the same waypoint, for different objects and all available functions for this entity could be predefined in list. This way, the direct LUA scripting will be almost dropped and the focus will move to the scene/map composition. Consider the scenegraph nodes as predefined modules for each object or waypoint. As an example, I could give you a real situation from the Bulletstorm game and one of the levels in the game. This is from one of the game designer`s blogpost:



Currently we`re dealing only with the platform, but at one point, we`ll have to make more complex stuff if we want to make a real playable game. Imagine if we have to code absolutely everything, all conditions and so on. With the node system, we`ll have the entire scene infront of us, we could visually track all connections, every condition. We won`t dig up into code, we won`t be forced to read lines of code, to determine where did we made a mistake or even trying to remember what we`ve done a month or year ago, by reading lines of code. It`s one time effort to make the entire AI system like LEGO blocks. The platforms are a good starting point IMO - simple enough and I believe - could be done quickly.

Here`s the rest of the blog post:
http://www.peoplecanfly.com/blog/201...-designer-pt-1
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  #3788  
Old 2012-07-27, 18:10
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So you want a node editor eh...?


Seems like getting bogged down to me at this point, since I'd really like to have a few playable levels working with proper gameplay.

Especially since first there has to be lua story coding, AI, a "life code", inventory and being able to pick up and equip objects and a node editor would just go on top of all that!

So when that's all done we could start having some working levels, while David polishes the editor and adds a node editor.

in short:

First have all the basic functions done, so you can make a working game (even with basic control over the process), then polish the editing tools (like add a node editore) that will come on top of all that.
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  #3789  
Old 2012-07-27, 18:13
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After googling it results this thing above is called "unreal kismet"
This is graphical coding, blocks are like my lua functions, arguments and return values of functions are the curves. This is a way to show graphically a lua script. (or any coding)
I propose when we have a level done we take a decision ?

http://www.unrealengine.com/features/kismet/
Unreal Kismet

  • Our visual scripting system gives artists and level designers virtually limitless control over how a level will play without touching a single line of code.
  • Allows for connecting together simple events and actions, created by programmers, to quickly assemble everything from simple behaviors to complete gameplay prototypes.
  • Has support for Math, Conditional Logic, Event handling and performing Actions.
  • Kismet visual scripting supports hierarchies of scripts for organizing very complex sequences into manageable units.
  • Lets programmers easily extend and create their own game-specific actions and events.
  • An intuitive user interface allows you to drop events and variables onto a canvas and control program flow by dragging connectors between objects. Comment boxes allow you to clearly group and organize bodies of code.
  • Web browser-style “Back” and “Forward” buttons and a streamlined Search feature allow you to easily navigate complex scripts with many sub-routines.
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Last edited by David; 2012-07-27 at 18:34.
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  #3790  
Old 2012-07-27, 18:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
So you want a node editor eh...?


Seems like getting bogged down to me at this point, since I'd really like to have a few playable levels working with proper gameplay.

Especially since first there has to be lua story coding, AI, a "life code", inventory and being able to pick up and equip objects and a node editor would just go on top of all that!

So when that's all done we could start having some working levels, while David polishes the editor and adds a node editor.

in short:

First have all the basic functions done, so you can make a working game (even with basic control over the process), then polish the editing tools (like add a node editore) that will come on top of all that.
What I`m proposing is not a caprice or just a fancy toy. Many game companies make such tools to increase their workflow speed. As David noticed himself this is a graphical way to show the LUA scripts. The scripting functionality is already implemented in the editor. What I`m proposing is that David could take the graphical part of a node editor from any open source project and implement it in our project. I`m even not talking big here, I`m proposing to try this with the platforms and the waypoints as a start. When you have to deal with the scripts, you don`t have to wonder how to compose it, like the situation with the doors. The nodes will solve such problems.
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  #3791  
Old 2012-07-27, 19:26
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I know it's not a fancy toy and appreciate it as a vast improvement that it is, and would also welcome the added experience in using such a tool...

What worries me though is that we'll keep on adding features to make work faster without doing that much actual work towards the completion of at least a chapter with a single island ready.

Speaking from experience from work here... slow and steady wins the race! I keep on noticing that people keep on thinking of ways to make things easier and quicker and while looking for those solutions they could've done what they set out to do a few times over..... So I'd like to have all the basics and just get on with making the game and ease of use be damned!

However if both of you think this is the right call at this stage and that the editor needs it to be fully functional then I guess I'm all for it!
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  #3792  
Old 2012-07-27, 20:10
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I know what your worries are, that`s why I proposed to use this only for the platforms and the waypoints at first. The reason for this is because:
1) it won`t need that much work to do, because David will limit his work only for these two stuff - platforms and waypoints.
2) he`ll have a starting point and he`ll be able to define how such system will evolve in the future.
3) he could write the rest of the code for LUA scripts handling, in such manner, that in later stages, as you said - when the editor is completed and just needs some polishing, he`ll be able to extend the basis he already would have, using the functionalities he made at the moment then. This means that he won`t need rewriting tons of code, just to implement the node system, like it happened, when we started using FLTK and FLUID.
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  #3793  
Old 2012-07-28, 16:42
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What you ask me is to create a visual scripting editor, that generates lua code. This is way too much work ! As you can see above, the software this guy is using is already existing. But I guess it's specific to another language (proper to unreal?) and specific API. As Jasiek said, the time needed to get such a tool would allow me to write thousands of bots and objects scripts. So unless you find an existing editor, I don't see the point to create one. I know coding is not your passion, just like mine is not modeling, but on this point I can't do miracles. It's wiser to put my efforts on doing pre-made codes, that we could pick up in a list, and update by mass. Finally, what limit us here is not the lua coding itself, but the tinyness of API.
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  #3794  
Old 2012-07-28, 16:50
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I know you`re not capable of doing miracles (who is?), that`s why I`m searching. Isn`t the Twine thingy not enough? I can`t program in python, that`s my problem. If I had any knowledge, I was going to try testing some stuff. Anyway. At least, would you make the thing with the waypoints and the platforms (I mean - to make the platforms play sounds at certain waypoints or to loop a sound, until reaching a waypoint)?
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  #3795  
Old 2012-07-28, 20:31
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yes, I will start/stop sounds with the nodes. No problems, I'm on it.
Would be nice to have the piece of code you want to be "standard" ready in some *.lua files, in a single folder.
Something like this :
platform 2 nodes prison.lua
platform 2 nodes sewer.lua
door citadel.lua
door prison.lua
camera.lua
etc...
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  #3796  
Old 2012-07-28, 23:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Would be nice to have the piece of code you want to be "standard" ready in some *.lua files, in a single folder.
Something like this :
platform 2 nodes prison.lua
platform 2 nodes sewer.lua
door citadel.lua
door prison.lua
camera.lua
etc...
That is what I was talking you about having all AI scripts in separate files, some time ago.

BTW, it just came to my mind, that the LUA field in the editor does not stretch horizontallt, when the borderline is pulled aside. It obscures most of the code and when I try modifying it with FLUID (by turning the "Resizable" flag on), the GUI just loses all rescaling capabilities. Any ideas why is like this?
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  #3797  
Old 2012-07-29, 00:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
yes, I will start/stop sounds with the nodes. No problems, I'm on it.
Would be nice to have the piece of code you want to be "standard" ready in some *.lua files, in a single folder.
Actually, why not just store them in separate files instead of embedding them into the map file? Let every scripted object have a link to a Lua file. This way many objects can use the same script without need to copy/paste everything numerous times.
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  #3798  
Old 2012-07-29, 00:18
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Add to all that I was thinking, can texture scrolling and turning glow on and off be handled through lua?

For instance I see you've added the sound to the elevator (loving the sounds btw!), and I was thinking that as it starts up, the parts in the engine could light up (by turning the glow one in the lua script) and start spinning (just a simple texture scroll, also handled in lua).

Other thing this could do is let me make lamps flicker and lights turn on and off properly.
Btw I'd still rather have a glow map - like the specular one!

The texture scrolling would be texture specific - not object specific, meaning every face with this material move at this speed in this direction.
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  #3799  
Old 2012-07-29, 02:50
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Horadrim, it seems to me scripting should be in a separate window, it's almost impossible to code in this property panel.
Ambient, both methods are needed. For example in the test map, cameras are activated when player enters a specific zone. Since zone have different names, each script is different. Thus there's no way to call a common script.
Jasiek, the prison platform use SMD animation for spinning, not APNG. The animation can be scripted. Could be the same for sewer platform. I didn't think yet how to change texture properties.
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  #3800  
Old 2012-07-29, 03:14
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Making a separate window for the LUA scripts, will raise the count to 3 in total. Isn`t it getting too much windows on the screen?
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