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  #176  
Old 2021-02-05, 02:38
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
That's the kind of thing he's been doing since the 2000s.
Exactly.
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  #177  
Old 2021-02-05, 02:44
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Trash bin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
SGK - I started writing a long reply to your essay/post a few days ago, spent way too much time on just the first 2 paragraphs, and then decided to give up.
I don't have enough time for this. It would be all in vain anyway, as you would just ignore the important points of my messages anyway, like you've done so far.

I just can't think of a way to just reach a common language for this exchange of idea you're calling for. Words don't have the same meaning for you as they have for me/us. "Critical thinking" for example, that seems to be a whole different concept for you than it is for me. I'd have to go on a lengthy explanation of how I use half of the words you mention before we could start having a meaningful conversation.

This makes me sad.
You've become a funny kind of man from the person I once knew.
At first, I have replied to you in privately in PMs... I tried to adress most of your questions. You said didn't want to hear any more and said "let it be means let it be".
Then on messenger, you asked me somethings again... I've adressed all your questions. You said "Our arguments are falling on deaf ears", when I've never refused to listen anything you said, and promptly gave a counterargument
Now you come with this horseshit, and I wonder why you couldn't even paste the text you wrote so far, albeit incomplete.

What can I say?
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein

Cheers.
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A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
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  #178  
Old 2021-02-05, 02:50
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrubacker View Post
There's a lot of covid conspiracy spreaders around here and it's just hurtful - we're working our asses off here and the fact that these people are in lockdown and plain bored/frustrated has given them the licence to go around apparently filming empty hospitals and attacking staff. The hospital I work in was attacked by some guy a few weeks ago and was set on fire. These are difficult times for everyone and I'm glad that atleast I get to go to work but it's just getting tiring now.
I am sorry to hear about that. Violence is not the way.
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  #179  
Old 2021-02-05, 03:08
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
It would be all in vain anyway, as you would just ignore the important points of my messages anyway, like you've done so far.
Also: are you seriously going for that 'easy way out' and play the blame game? wow. I just wrote like about 4 huge ass posts longer than anything you have ever written here on these forums, pinpointing everything which people including you have brought up so far, and you tell me I am ignoring the important points? What important points? Also, it was you who was 'genuinely curious' to understand what my points were and supposedly had 'watched everything I had posted', and now you come with this cheap excuse which isn't even true?

If you had really watched everything I've posted, then you'd already know what the points were long ago before asking me any silly questions, that's the truth. And your entire post was condescending. So, since we are playing the condescending game, here's another quote for you:

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain
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Quote:
A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
Quote:
" If you have no success with one type of behaviour, try another. " - LBA 2 Manual
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  #180  
Old 2021-02-05, 04:45
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Well, 2020 has been somewhat of a watershed year in my view, with how various technological, societal and political movements hit the mainframe in new ways - and the virus of course. There's been instances of academic post-modern theories finding new prominence, big tech taking unprecedented steps, presidents using those platforms in unheard of ways, and some quite frankly daft, low-resolution metanarratives lacking nuance or much explanatory power finding mainstream acceptance. I've been reading the thread with interest, partly because I've seen a number of groups I'm in split and people fall out in real life over apparent left / right divides and other worldview clashes for the first time, and partly because some of what has been going on in the world certainly looks suspicious, which means I think a person like Space Guitarist should be treated with gentleness even as we disagree as to how to make sense of some of what is occurring. Without meaning to totally derail the thread, the biggest issue that came up in my circles was actually that of racism (and "anti-racism" - or the "real" means to oppose racism) in the wake of George Floyd's murder. What that sparked, followed by coronavirus and bunch of other happenings, has stirred the pot in ways that I know aren't unprecedented in world history in the slightest but are probably a first in my life.

I had a tinnitus-inducing audio trauma just before our lockdowns started, so had to deal with the difficulty of that as a musician and dive into reading until using my ears felt possible again (which, thankfully has gradually happened.) This War and Peace quote brought some peace to me and captures quite nicely why it’s pointless to get too upset with anyone’s own account of reality, history or politics - (I even bothered to type it out by hand from the book!):
‘When a ripe apple falls, what makes it fall? Is it gravity, pulling it down to earth? A withered stalk? The drying action of the Sun? Increased weight? A breath of wind? Or the boy under the tree who wants to eat it?
Nothing is the cause of it. It is just the coming together of various conditions necessary for any living, organic, elemental event to take place. And the botanist who finds that the apple has fallen because of the onset of decay in its cellular structure, and all the rest of it, will be no more right or wrong then the boy under the tree who says the apple fell because he wanted to eat it and prayed for it to fall. Anyone who claims that Napoleon went to Moscow because he wanted to, and eventually lost because Alexander wanted him to lose, will be no more right or wrong than the man who claims that thousands of tons of earth in an undermined hill collapsed because of the last blow from the last pick-axe of the last workman. When it comes to events in history, so-called “great men” are nothing but labels attached to events; like real real labels, they have the least possible connection with events themselves.
Every action they perform, which they take to be self determined and independent, is in a historical sense quite the opposite; it is interconnected with a whole course of history, and predetermined from eternity.’
(I don’t think the reference to eternity is in the traditional religious sense, given the larger context and Tolstoy's positive interest in Eastern spirituality! It is more to do with interconnectedness.)

I does seem more obvious than ever that reductionistic left or right accounts of issues and singular models of why things are the way they are will keep not helping. I appreciate Tolstoy’s humility in admitting the complexity of writing history, particularly in light of how people to the left or right today seem to utilise pretty exclusive approximations of reality on many issues - especially an issue like racism. As an example, some of these popular “anti-racist” books, like Dr Shola Mos-Shogbamimu‘a “This is Why I Resist: Don't Define My Black Identity” seem to place all the apples in one cart, so to speak. Conservatives place them in another cart. And it goes on, and constantly in 2020 I witnessed the media stoking division wherever it could by utilising stark, hard either/or thinking and name-calling. Obviously I'm aware "the media" isn't some singular organism, and I'm not naming a cabal somewhere that is controlling its operations - much of what we're seeing could be the worst aspects of capitalism playing itself out. Division sells, and people on "the left" or "the right" both make a big buck (again, those aren't monolithic entities either, but you've probably given up reading my post already and I want to keep it brief.) Whether you're Robin DeAngelo doing her "White Fragility" workshops to a tune of thousands upon thousands or Ben Shapiro, there's money to be made on grievance, guilt and mockery - and maintaining the status quo.

It’s strange to me that with all our experience, accumulated knowledge and progress, we resist the complexity of reality and the idea that our social theories and what we think are the causes of things - we resist that these are low resolution and by definition limited. (Even “basic” phenomena need to be explained by more than one model at times in physics.) I totally get activism is partly about polemics and you can’t always expect nuance there, as it’s a needed motivational call to action - but even in longer books and articles there is a surprising singular vision involving black and white binaries (in some cases literally lol.) If we want to “look” right or put on a captivating piece, that’s fine, but if we actually want to do good with greater efficiency and change the nuts and bolts of how various communities do I imagine we’ll have to work together and combine knowledge bases more - across “denominational lines”, so to speak. Basically, I don’t quite agree with Tolstoy’s fatalism or playing down of the individual, but I do like how he poetically captures the reasons why reductionist versions of reality and history (like the left and right engage with) can’t be true. Like the notion that “white supremacy” sufficiently “explains” the entirety of everything we need to know about what goes on with people of colour and their struggles. He also points towards the universality and indivisibility of human consciousness, from “great to small”, which is a necessary aspect of the conversation going forwards in the place of a current focus on divisions along social, racial, gendered etc. lines.

Needless to say, as much as I oppose racism, sexism, prejudice etc. as any vaguely kind person would or should - and as much as I found the murder of George Floyd awful, I became increasingly wary of so many voices apparently speaking for "justice" in 2020, both in the academy and media and how that spills out elsewhere. In some respects it seemed healthiest to chose to “read” some of the outcry about racism in terms of emotion, because the specifics were and are so confused. It seems a kind of Marxist dialectic has taken control of many hearts and minds, and that a deliberate widespread attempt to cast all human relationship in terms of the oppressed / oppressor is gathering force - which, while sounding just, can only ultimately lead to the very opposite of flourishing. I find it disturbing that a strong affirmation of shared humanity and equality, which plays out in a shared life, is no longer "enough" among current activists - in fact, such a view is apparently a power play by the privileged few. It doesn't bother me so much that these accounts of what is happening are often based in inaccuracies or a lack of definite data (for example, how *specifically* is the UK Health system “institutionally racist”?) - it's the spirit behind all of this and where it may lead that bothers me. Apart from certain assumptions from post modern critical theories, these beliefs also all share lineages with arguments about "the problem of whiteness" - material I've been reading with interest for years because I’m surrounded by crazy musicians and artists who love that stuff, and because now these ideas have a new prominence and tone. Multiple times I've read articles in mainstream newspapers that call for a total, literal abolishment of the police, for example.

I'm again sorry to go so off topic from coronavirus, but I may as well continue my diatribe...If it is simply asserted that "white people" (as if they too are a monolithic group) have an unconscious, racist pathology, for example, and then they are called on to proactively take note of colour, but then warned ferociously against tokenism in the same breath, and then also told an affirmation of definite equality and shared equality isn't actually good enough (this is apparently a complicit, a "colour blind" racism in and of itself) - what is left? It seems to me what is left which such hopelessly contradictory messaging is a regression into an unhealthy over-awareness of race once again, relationships being gutted of their natural empathy, growth and joy, a careful and frightened outward adherence to "protocol", and ultimately further division, with those on the right irritated and pushed further to the right, those who really are victims rendered victims in their outlook all the more, and those in the middle congratulating one another over moral superiority while everything descends to further chaos. This in turn can lead to a re-creation of society based on non-Capitalist principles - possibly. By the way, I'm not personally offended by some of the more extreme ideas I've read. Just like some Black friends I spent hours on the phone with in trying to understand what is occurring, I simply think the fruit of these ideas will be bad. I've seen teenagers pushed to the far right in all of this, which is also very sad to see.

Or it will all blow over like everything else does.

Whatever the case, as mentioned, my impression in reading article after article is that the drive behind some voices calling for justice is actually more a lust for even more division. I hate racism and inequality, so this makes me sad. It isn’t driven by a desire for reconciliation at all, because the terms offered are always impossible to fulfil. By utilising people’s (genuine) hurts and cleverly re-emphasising colour and re-framing reality in entirely stark oppressor / oppressed power-based terms, more division is achieved, and the destruction of the systems that happen to be has always seemed to me to be an aim in some far-left thought.

Lest anyone think I'm advocating a particular conservative view instead, I want to clearly state that there are obviously dreadful injustices that do need rectifying, and that most models have a place. There is a usefulness in all different types of critical theory for thinking and engaging with the world, including aspects of those typically called "post modern" or those to the far left. However, the fruit of so much of what has been produced in 2020 has been immense division, and I'm not sure - as problematic as society was - that there was quite that much inflamed division before. It is like we've regressed under the influences of various forces.

Last edited by CS2x; 2021-02-05 at 05:52.
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  #181  
Old 2021-02-05, 14:42
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Maybe, maybe not... I'd say for division to be felt, it must mean that we are close to some point... I'm optimistic in nature, and believe these will all be ironed out, and that we are generally going in the good direction.
What we see are hiccups of an ancient system where there was no need to care for the other, since a meeting never occured.

Take the rise of ethnomusicology for example (I know, I'm taking examples from my own life ). So far, there was no need to study music for anything else than musicology. Everything could be explained through the viewpoint of XVIIIth century european composers™. As people with different cultures appeared, it became clear that their music couldn't be explained with the same system, thus the creation and rise of ethnomusicology, to the point where today, no one would think of it as an inferior approach to music.
I believe something similar is happening in the world, trying to make people from different cultures live together is no easy task, but as we're getting closer and closer to it, there is bound to be some amount of chaos.

(If anybody is interested, here is a great video about music theory and its relation with white skin coloured people, and the rise of anti-racism. Since it's not exactly about music in and of itself, laymen will have no trouble understanding it as well.
)
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  #182  
Old 2021-02-05, 15:36
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Maybe, maybe not... I'd say for division to be felt, it must mean that we are close to some point... I'm optimistic in nature, and believe these will all be ironed out, and that we are generally going in the good direction.
What we see are hiccups of an ancient system where there was no need to care for the other, since a meeting never occured.

Take the rise of ethnomusicology for example (I know, I'm taking examples from my own life ). So far, there was no need to study music for anything else than musicology. Everything could be explained through the viewpoint of XVIIIth century european composers™. As people with different cultures appeared, it became clear that their music couldn't be explained with the same system, thus the creation and rise of ethnomusicology, to the point where today, no one would think of it as an inferior approach to music.
I believe something similar is happening in the world, trying to make people from different cultures live together is no easy task, but as we're getting closer and closer to it, there is bound to be some amount of chaos.

(If anybody is interested, here is a great video about music theory and its relation with white skin coloured people, and the rise of anti-racism. Since it's not exactly about music in and of itself, laymen will have no trouble understanding it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA )
Thanks - I agree with what you are saying about music. But I think this has been occurring for a while, and was already moving towards a healthy place? At least, at my school (a state school) we studied music from around the world, and when more involved in music in the outside world aged 18 onwards it was kind of a given to honour different musical approaches and musical cultures from around the globe. Maybe being in London does that? SOAZ university especially excelled at these things. Maybe this was just the experience of this circle, but a common thread was a distain for any notion of superiority of Western tradition / analysis or of analysing music traditions from around the world “through” a Western lens. The Cannon was treated with some suspicion, and it was normal to spend time learning from other musical heritages. My label boss back then (15 years ago...i was already on this forum!) studied percussion in Ghana for years before returning to teach and release music here. It seemed so innocent and, while we were horrible and flawed as humans are in lots of other ways, the issue of race honestly never came up (even though the scene was wonderfully multicultural and there certain wasn’t any one majority.) I certainly wasn’t advocating for a European-centric view either way in my above post - I was addressing something different and making an opposite statement about human consciousness in light of some popular post-modern and anti-racist theory. For what it’s worth I resonate a lot more with aspects of various African music traditions than anything else and spend a lot of time enjoying that music...but that’s another topic.
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  #183  
Old 2021-02-05, 15:58
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Neko Neko is offline
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Maybe, maybe not... I'd say for division to be felt, it must mean that we are close to some point... I'm optimistic in nature, and believe these will all be ironed out, and that we are generally going in the good direction.
What we see are hiccups of an ancient system where there was no need to care for the other, since a meeting never occured.

Take the rise of ethnomusicology for example (I know, I'm taking examples from my own life ). So far, there was no need to study music for anything else than musicology. Everything could be explained through the viewpoint of XVIIIth century european composers™. As people with different cultures appeared, it became clear that their music couldn't be explained with the same system, thus the creation and rise of ethnomusicology, to the point where today, no one would think of it as an inferior approach to music.
I believe something similar is happening in the world, trying to make people from different cultures live together is no easy task, but as we're getting closer and closer to it, there is bound to be some amount of chaos.

(If anybody is interested, here is a great video about music theory and its relation with white skin coloured people, and the rise of anti-racism. Since it's not exactly about music in and of itself, laymen will have no trouble understanding it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA )
white supremacy..really?
Couldn't it be that in India they called their music theory "music theory", and in europe they called their version "music theory" and since Europe and the immigrants that invaded and founded USA were also europians and that's how the name stuck to "music theory".

I like the idea of making music theory a broad and modern inclusive theory though. But it's not like music theory was pushed and meant to repress other cultures afaik. But what do I know? I'm mansplaining and whitesplaining :P

Btw, just the mere existance of those two words is in itself racists and sexists, and does nothing to make the world more inclusive in my opinion.
You cannot envision an end goal like: "I want a world where sex and color does not matter" and get there by putting huge emphasis on color and gender.
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  #184  
Old 2021-02-05, 16:05
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Look, I don't know about the racial issue, I just know that music theory is pushed as something universal, whereas it cannot even be applied to music in eastern Europe, I mean, listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f50Gfz5RsC0

This is from Croatia

As far as the race aspect goes... I'd say it's just an unfortunate side-effect, but really, I don't know enough about the North-American societies

CS2x : That's great ! I studied in Hungary, where apart from classical music lessons, we had some about Hungarian traditional music. Sadly, in wasn't a reform of the system, rather the wish of traditional musicians to be taken seriously
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  #185  
Old 2021-02-05, 16:11
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I wouldn't be upset if in say japan they have their own music theory based in their own culture and call it "music theory" as if it is universal.

Nor would I be upset if I was raised with dutch culture in japan and have been living in japan for a few generations.

I just don't get the whole problem, but maybe it is because it supposably benefits me?

Btw I love other music from other cultures, it is often pretty hypnotic and cool.
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  #186  
Old 2021-02-05, 17:21
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
You cannot envision an end goal like: "I want a world where sex and color does not matter" and get there by putting huge emphasis on color and gender.
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
I just don't get the whole problem, but maybe it is because it supposably benefits me?
I don't really get the current approach either, and it was a big part of what I was addressing in that last long post I wrote. I've seen no good fruit from it personally - in fact, it has created mainly new rifts - and seems to benefit nobody except for the purveyors of these "new" (I know they're not new, but do have a new parochial, aggressive confidence) approaches. I say this as someone who has honestly tried for a long time to understand and appreciate in a positive sense certain anti-racist stances and explanations, especially as some friends became activists in these arenas (and some also became disenchanted with the movement.) I actually haven't even read criticism of those ideas yet; I'm just responding to the ideas themselves. But usually, I am left feeling like anything I do is wrong - for example, if I don't put race front and centre and ask a person about the racism they must have experienced, that belies my inherent racism, privilege and lack of care. If I do ask though, I am also committing evil, because it should absolutely not be the other person's responsibility to explain or share anything (fair enough.)

I'm a person full of flaws and do want to grow. At the same time, it seems bizarre to have enjoyed years and years of friendship with people of all cultures (including an adopted sister from Nigeria and foster brothers and sisters from around the globe, and later musicians from anywhere) and a multicultural school, and a family embracing and affirming all peoples - only to now find there are and were always apparently all these severe problems by default because of what I happen to be. Sure, in a wider sense problems persists and work needs to be done, but many of these theories and accounts seem determined to create a whole bunch of new ones too.
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  #187  
Old 2021-02-05, 17:23
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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
You cannot envision an end goal like: "I want a world where sex and color does not matter" and get there by putting huge emphasis on color and gender.
Exactly...
True words were spoken...

And one could also say that about the coronavirus.
You cannot say "I want a world where there's no more fear and death" and get there by putting emphasis on fear and death.

The true way... is the focus on life, its beauty and power, the shift towards the light within, the healthy lifestyle, the spiritual strength, the strong and fearless immune system ready to take anything that is there to come because you do not live in fear, the undeniable freedom that cannot be withdrawn for any reason and the peace of mind.

Not... trying to track, trace, isolate, contain the virus, constantly running away from it... fear, despair, confusion, contradicting directives, locking down, distancing, injecting unknown substances, lack of empathy, masks who cover the smiles and inhibit your breathing (specially on children!), death counts, death this and sickness that, mandatory orders and all the sinister persecution of those who oppose that.

As if there was only one way to live.

And I speak this from a personal point of view, where I am testimony of my own words, I do not state these things vainly... I have never been to a hospital... or needed anything from allopathic medicine... and if only society could distance themselves even just once, from the ideas and concepts about life which they take for granted so ferociously, to see another aspect, another perspective, to have the will to truly make those alternative methods of healing all the more inclusive to a broader spectrum of the population, if only we ceased the segregation and made efforts towards an unity; of knowledge, of the diversity of minds, of the diversity of the natural causes of the problems and diseases we face, then what I am saying here would not need much explanation and would be gratifyingly embraced.

... nice talk on music by you guys above me.
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A few years ago, under the guise of protecting the population, Dr. FunFrock herded the planet's habitants into the southern hemisphere. The repression is harsh. Every day brings more and more arrests, and the people slowly begin to lose hope. In an effort to keep their spirits up, the people sometimes evoke an ancient legend along with the name of a goddess, Sendell. The mentioning of the legend or Sendell has since been forbidden by Dr. FunFrock. Meanwhile... a young quetch named Twinsen has been having strange dreams...
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  #188  
Old 2021-02-05, 17:45
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
The true way... is the focus on life, its beauty and power, the shift towards the light within, the healthy lifestyle, the spiritual strength, the strong and fearless immune system ready to take anything that is there to come because you do not live in fear, the undeniable freedom that cannot be withdrawn for any reason and the peace of mind.
PS: ^Animals live exactly like that, and, without humans in this planet, they would be thriving and living happily as they always did. It is only the 'irrational' human animal who is stupid enough to constantly put his own species (and the others) in constant peril.
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  #189  
Old 2021-02-05, 17:57
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
PS: ^Animals live exactly like that, and, without humans in this planet, they would be thriving and living happily as they always did. It is only the 'irrational' human animal who is stupid enough to constantly put his own species (and the others) in constant peril.
Doesn't mean that vaccination or technology is a bad thing perse. Animals die pretty brutally from disease and other problems too in the wild. I find it pretty destabilizing when we are zooming in on a few sideeffects, and ignore the huge benefits you also get from it. In it's core, it is a pretty briliant strategy to use a weaker version of a virus, to train yourself. Unfortunately, every medicine carries a bit of risk. Doesn't mean it is bad in the very concept. What I do agree on is that it should not be a profit billion dolar industry. otoh: not sure if putting it in the hands of governments is the solution either.

The thing I also agree on is that we are so afraid to lose control, we want to minimize every risk. And while that is not a bad thing, we should accept that we cannot 100% control life.

Same with something that seems very silly, wild plants and grass is constantly mowed in the netherlands. If a tree falls in the woods, we take it away. All to keep everything neat and tidy. Also for safety so that kids don't suddenly fall into the water. Everything has to be so neat. 100 % control.
But that is killing the insect population and that is becoming a real problem. Why not accept a little bit of risk, and let nature grow a bit more? In countries like France, this is not that much the case as it is here. Holland has almost become a big city with a few forests and parks, with fields for food.

So yeah, we went from corona, to music, to bugs.
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  #190  
Old 2021-02-05, 18:09
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So yeah, we went from corona, to music, to bugs.
I like that.
(And you have some really good points!)
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  #191  
Old 2021-02-05, 18:12
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Yes, it's kinda nice how we have jumped about. In some real life conversations with people who listen well can go that way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z2BPnd09iw&t=61s

Last edited by CS2x; 2021-02-06 at 16:09.
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  #192  
Old 2021-02-05, 21:21
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ChaosFish ChaosFish is offline
!!!!!
 
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Hey MBN, so I just woke up from cryo but it seems the world is still terrible so I'm just gonna step back into my slumber chamber, setting it to 5 years this time, seeya!
Oh almost forgot, enjoy this updated titlescreen for 2021. One mRNA down!
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  #193  
Old 2021-02-05, 23:27
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Reek Reek is offline
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so has anyone here played sekiro? what a game, amirite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #194  
Old 2021-02-06, 18:43
DedalousDiggle DedalousDiggle is offline
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so has anyone here played sekiro? what a game, amirite
I’ve been thinking about it. I loved Bloodborne but Dark Souls 2 was too slow and clunky. DS3 was better but still not BB. I want that fast shit.
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  #195  
Old 2021-02-06, 21:07
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i played bloodborne this year. probably one of my all time favourite games.
didn't get around to trying the souls game yet.
but if it's speed you want, definitely play sekiro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist
This is work of higher intelligences, who take other, esoteric and psychological sciences into account than we are normally used to even consider, numerology being one of them, because everything for them is ritualistic and everything is meant for a deep programming of our psychological state. One day witchcraft and science will collide.
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  #196  
Old 2021-02-07, 06:40
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CS2x CS2x is offline
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Hey guys, speaking of 2020 -
I would really appreciate it if you could give this new video I just finished a watch. It isn't too long. I'm not much of an actor, singer or speaking, but some of the others featured are:
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  #197  
Old 2021-02-07, 14:10
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SpaceGuitarist SpaceGuitarist is offline
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Originally Posted by CS2x View Post
Hey guys, speaking of 2020 -
I would really appreciate it if you could give this new video I just finished a watch. It isn't too long. I'm not much of an actor, singer or speaking, but some of the others featured are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPHsBpEQsK8
Wow - that was actually really insightful. Thanks so much for sharing.
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  #198  
Old 2021-02-07, 22:30
DedalousDiggle DedalousDiggle is offline
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And here I was thinking that Jesse rubbing snow on his nipples for tiktok was the weirdest thing I’d see today.
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  #199  
Old 2021-02-07, 22:48
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Neko Neko is offline
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And here I was thinking that Jesse rubbing snow on his nipples for tiktok was the weirdest thing I’d see today.
Tomorrow push ups
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  #200  
Old 2021-02-08, 20:04
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
You've become a funny kind of man
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Now you come with this horseshit, and I wonder why you couldn't even paste the text you wrote so far, albeit incomplete.
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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Welp, so much for Lupin's curiosity! Next time I won't give any attention to your useless babbling when you're just provoking others to explain themselves, 'cause that appeal is just full of shit, as you just sneak your way out over and over.
Can you please keep it polite? You can't go around complaining about people insulting you and then doing the same thing...

Also, how is what I'm saying "horseshit"? Can you be more specific about what bothers you in what I said?

As for pasting the text I had written so far, as a matter of fact, I saved it to a text file, because I knew from the start that I wouldn't be able to reply in one session, and I didn't want to risk losing my draft. So, I can do that.
It's just an introduction to the post I was going to write before I realized it would take days, and I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Here it goes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
Hey y'all. I guess it's time to address as many questions as I can atm. Again, if your brain is triggered to receive an idea already thinking ahead how to debunk it, it is not an honest exchange of ideas. It's gonna be a long post. Buckle up.
Well, believe it or not, I'm genuinely trying my best to read your ideas with an open mind. I don't have a desire to "debunk" them, or belittle you as a person, or anything like that. I am just genuinely trying to understand your point of view, because there is a large chunk of the world population that shares those ideas, and it is starting to have a big influence on things. That impacts me and others pretty directly. So, first and foremost, I'm trying to understand what's happening here, where you're coming from, and what it all means. Because indeed, your views are quite shocking to me, and the fact that so many people share those views is making me nervous.

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Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
The term 'conspiracy theory(rist)' was coined to be derogatory. Just like calling other people 'sheep' is equally offensive. While we can imagine a conspiracy theorist to be off his head, constantly busy formulating new ideas out of thin air or collecting pieces of information which other people don't see or care for in a manner deemed crazy/obsessed and one who lives in constant revolt and suspicious about the government and the media; and the sheep being the stupid puppet who follows and does everything without questioning; no actual person really is any of these two extremes. They are just that - extremes. Meant to polarize us. Put us into two groups, into two categories who will fight each other calling them their names - "you're asleep" "you're just crazy" (...). Much like how we are divided by infinite other factors, such as nationality, religion, race...
I don't think I called you a conspiracy theorist, and if I did, I take it back, because I'm striving to never attack or assign labels to people. However, I'm ok with critizing ideas when I think they are a source of problem. Now, for the term 'conspiracy theory' itself, it is in no way my intention to use it in a derogatory manner, just for the sake of it. But phenomena need words to be described, and I can't find a better word to describe a circumstance in which someone believes erroneously that important events are the result of a conspiracy.

Also, I'm not saying that all conspiracy theories are baseless, there have been and there will be real conspiracies. But I think that actual conspiracies are rare. Mostly because they are hard to pull off, especially at a large scale: they require their perpetrator to force many people out of their natural behaviour, and that requires them to deploy an unrealistic amount of energy and some form of omnipotent reach. I think that a Tragedy of the commons type of explanations is much more likely to accurately describe a negative event, in most cases, rather than a conspiracy.

Thus, if actual conspiracies are rare (and we can debate that point if you don't agree), we can conclude that if you believe in many of them, most of those beliefs will be held in contradiction with the truth. And if you act on those beliefs, and your actions are harmful, and if many people do the same, then it's having a substantially negative impact on the world.

Conspiracy theories have often been used in the past by people and organizations in a position of power to initiate or justify a course of action that leads to the death, torture, seggregation of large numbers of human beings (the nazis being a notable example of that).
Most people see them as dangerous for this reason, and I'm one of them.

---

As a bonus, I'll reply that part too now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
I have been raised more on the critical thinker side. This is just a label, but it could be anything, free human, free thinker, spiritual man - whichever definition suits you. What is important here is that so-called 'conspiracy theories' have ever been present since an early age, and I had always known what was the story behind events (or at least as much as could be found about it). I remember being around 11 years old when the 9/11 happened and within months finding out what actually happened, while in school. My other classmate kids were all terrified or shocked, and even that early I knew how the 'conspiracy' idea was ridiculed in society, how it was absolutely impossible to even talk about such things except for those with minds alike. I don't mean to be condescending here. It's just a different perspective. While this may seem like self-indoctrination that altered my views of what is normal, it also opened my eyes to things very early on, meaning, it made many things that you probably take for granted in life to be totally something else, a complete plot-twist, often times unbelievable to be told.
I have a very hard time associating 'critical thinking' with 'spiritual man'. For me those things are quite antithetical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Critical thinking is the analysis of facts to form a judgment. The subject is complex, and several different definitions exist, which generally include the rational, skeptical, unbiased analysis, or evaluation of factual evidence.
The subject is indeed complex, and as I mentioned, your definition is very different from mine.
We don't seem to have the same stance towards rationality, as you seem to be rejecting institutional science, regularly discarding scientific consensus as some sort of sheep mentality, while totally ignoring the process that leads to that consensus, which is what science is all about (as opposed to being a collection of accepted facts). You also welcome spiritual views and regularly invoke mystical powers, as legitimate source of 'truth', conveniently forgetting about skepticism when you do so. For me, critical thinking isn't critical thinking if the skepticism part is selective.
We also seem to have huge divergences in how we evaluate factual evidence. Apparently, for you, the words of a random person on the internet counts as evidence (as shown multiple times in this thread, ask me for quotes if needed).
You also are quick to discard statistics when talking about factual data, but what do you have to offer as an alternative? At least statistics are usually collected through a documented process, and even if not totally accurate, they are acknowledging their limitations. I am genuinely curious to know what are your sources of factual data? If statistics collected through a documented process by well-identified organisations is not good enough for you, what do you have to offer? From what I've seen so far, your source of raw data is random youtubers pulling numbers out of their hats. Can we agree that we can probably do better, or am I being condescending?

---

Anyway, as I said, I don't have enough time on my hands to reply everything else thoroughly. This post from Hin is the closest expression in this thread to how I think about the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist View Post
What can I say?
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein
"I never said even half the things that the Internet says I did" - Albert Einstein
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