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Little Script Adventure An open-source 3D engine with assets and tools for all future LBA fan-games.

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  #2701  
Old 2011-10-26, 11:28
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_sglow material works
you can see it on harbor map (which launch by default), I added a stone with sglow material on it
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  #2702  
Old 2011-10-26, 14:10
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Perfect! I now could make some tests ^_^.
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  #2703  
Old 2011-10-26, 14:33
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I've added a seafloor to see ocean shader better, it's just a conceptual and for test purpose, I hope you like it anyway !
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  #2704  
Old 2011-10-26, 15:20
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Yep, it`s nice. I was making some corals. With few underwater rocks and algae it`ll look wonderful.
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  #2705  
Old 2011-10-26, 15:36
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If the shader work correctly for you, you should see refraction effect isn't it ?
I couldn't find any algae sprites on the web ... maybe they could be APNG, or even SMD models !
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  #2706  
Old 2011-10-26, 16:39
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I think that the alpha map does not work with the _glow textures. I used _sglow instead, but I can`t achieve the effect I want :/ . As for the algae - are you sure that it`ll be good to animate the algae? The ones I made look like they`re moving under the water, because of the refraction.
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  #2707  
Old 2011-10-26, 17:51
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You're right, you wouldn't distinguish if algae are animated or not because of this shader, sprites should be enough then, like the one I added.
Can you describe which effect you want to do, and comit example ?
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  #2708  
Old 2011-10-26, 18:21
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Something like this ? I changed a bit shaders to take in count alpha channel.
Right now sglow is not thought to be transparent, it should not be named this way I think. Current sglow is like a raw rendering, no lighting, no effects, output=input, and rendered during the opaque pass. I could add similar material but in transparent pass to get the effect below without refraction and glow effect

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  #2709  
Old 2011-10-26, 19:44
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Do you see these petals? I want them to glow. Currently I`m using _sglow + alpha, but I want the bloomy effect that the _glow provides.
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  #2710  
Old 2011-10-26, 19:59
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Could you comit that on test folder ?
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  #2711  
Old 2011-10-26, 20:49
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  #2712  
Old 2011-10-26, 21:46
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I`ve uploaded it. All I could achieve with the _glow is this:
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  #2713  
Old 2011-10-26, 22:00
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check the photo above (I updated it)
So if you want glowing coral and the transparent ocean above it, it means I have to add glowing rendering in the opaque pass too. Thus we have a new material :
_oglow opaque glowing who uses alpha clipping
_tglow transparent glowing who uses alpha blending, with refraction effect
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  #2714  
Old 2011-10-26, 22:39
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The both suggestions are good. If you have time (and wish to) implement them. The problem that occurs to me is actually out of the water - I should see it as in your shot. Did you change anything?
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  #2715  
Old 2011-10-26, 22:49
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What you see on the shot is not on the repo yet. Their will be 2 more post processes, to create the opaque glowing, a x blur pass then y blur pass. Check the postprocess1-2 outputs which shows transparent glowing passes.

Since I implemented the output feature, everything is more clear to me, you can see they are lots of passes and shaders/materials. That was getting impossible to continue without this trick.

The picking is not working well now, everything is so connected, when I add a new feature I always lose what I did before ...

looks like yellow algae texture is missing
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  #2716  
Old 2011-10-26, 23:08
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I see... Ok then, I`ll wait. The missing texture is uploaded now.
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  #2717  
Old 2011-10-27, 02:12
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Here you can see on the left _glow and on the right _tglow, rendering respectively on opaque and transparent pass. Objects rendered on transparent pass are getting invisible when viewed through another object of transparent pass. On this example if you put the ice block under water it disappear. Or on citadel island if you look through a lamp post head to water you don't see it. Just keep it in mind while modeling.



All is on the repo, I modified alpha channel of coral texture, cause alpha was too low, opaque parts should be 255 it was like 125
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  #2718  
Old 2011-10-27, 13:43
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It looks perfect, except that shiny stuff looks wet now - is that due to normal mapping? Could the refraction for _shiny be based on the amount of noise/strongness of the normal maps?

Metal bits look all wrong because of that. Some stone pieces which I'm not sure are set to be shiny also look wet.


Apart from that, absolutely brilliant.



So we should decide on how to make the outside maps now?
A single map loads a pretty long time now... not to mention if it's a whole island...
Without that I don't really know hot to proceed with the map making.

And I'd really like to have grass sprites placed randomly on faces with a grass texture, with a random flower here and there. Grass sprites should be _transp.

And Horadrim about the prison I was thinking - we'll have a pretty radical departure from what was present in LBA1/2 in terms of level design outside - how about "smoothing" things out in the prison? Change it a bit, roound the corners, add more but smaller cells and add some prisoners in straitjackets in there - maybe ditch the "disappearing ceiling" concept and move the rooms a bit - there's plenty of unused space in there. Darken it up a bit I guess - or make it more "white and sterile" - akin to a WW1 hospital.
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Last edited by Jasiek; 2011-10-27 at 14:00.
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  #2719  
Old 2011-10-27, 14:33
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added a "Save outputs as PNGs" button on main menu, its writing all outputs (with alpha channel too) to a folder called "outputs_PNGs" in trunk
Some outputs are empty cause they are cleaned before exporting, will corrrect that ...
Note the strecth, its normal, because all render target are square
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  #2720  
Old 2011-10-27, 17:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
So we should decide on how to make the outside maps now?
A single map loads a pretty long time now... not to mention if it's a whole island...
Without that I don't really know hot to proceed with the map making.
Loading process can be (and should be) optimized. Of course, you need careful profiling to determine bottlenecks but I bet that PNG loading and model file parsing are the key problems.
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  #2721  
Old 2011-10-27, 17:50
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Maybe let's replace non-transparent textures with jpg's then? Should load way faster.
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  #2722  
Old 2011-10-27, 17:56
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how can you say this ?
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  #2723  
Old 2011-10-27, 18:08
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Well if it will improve loading times...
Wouldn't be really happy about it... but if it needs to be done then so be it...
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  #2724  
Old 2011-10-27, 19:26
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David, you can just optimize the code: I'm pretty sure current resource pipeline should work much faster. However, if you want to improve loading speed with more radical methods, try to reduce number of required data conversions.
For example, like in most games, textures can be compressed using S3TC. Although that compression method is lossy (unlike PNG), you get several advantages: since GPU decompresses S3 textures on-the-fly, you use less bandwidth and video memory and reduce CPU load, since you just copy compressed texture data straight into video memory.
Another option will be converting models to binary format, so you don't need to parse a ton of text each time you start LSA (screw human readability, noone is going to read them anyway).

Of course I understand that change of data formats may be a bit unpleasant, so I suggest to create a certain pre-build procedure. SVN repo will contain raw data - text-based models, PNG textures, source code. Anybody who wishes to try running a development version must run build script that will compile source code into an executable and convert all resources into production-ready format.
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  #2725  
Old 2011-10-27, 23:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
And I'd really like to have grass sprites placed randomly on faces with a grass texture, with a random flower here and there. Grass sprites should be _transp.
I think I know the perfect resource for this:

http://translate.google.com/translat...-tutorial.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiek View Post
And Horadrim about the prison I was thinking - we'll have a pretty radical departure from what was present in LBA1/2 in terms of level design outside - how about "smoothing" things out in the prison? Change it a bit, roound the corners, add more but smaller cells and add some prisoners in straitjackets in there - maybe ditch the "disappearing ceiling" concept and move the rooms a bit - there's plenty of unused space in there. Darken it up a bit I guess - or make it more "white and sterile" - akin to a WW1 hospital.
To be honest, I was thinking the same thing for a long time now. The problem is that I`m starting to make too much things at once and this leads to nothing. I mean - starting to think about and make a model(s) of something, then leave the whole concept and starting something other is not too helping to the project. I will remodel it and actually I already got some nice ideas, inspired from movies/games and even pictures. Let`s use the current model just for now, for testing purposes, meanwhile I`ll finish the rest of the stuff I started, then I`ll move again on the prison. I think this kind of practice will tidy up the work and won`t jam it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Another option will be converting models to binary format, so you don't need to parse a ton of text each time you start LSA (screw human readability, noone is going to read them anyway).

Of course I understand that change of data formats may be a bit unpleasant, so I suggest to create a certain pre-build procedure. SVN repo will contain raw data - text-based models, PNG textures, source code. Anybody who wishes to try running a development version must run build script that will compile source code into an executable and convert all resources into production-ready format.
I think that this is very wise suggestion. I`m really concerned about what will happen if we need to add more models in one place. It`ll take eons to load a level and will become very irritating to the player (i.e. the new DeusEx is capable of stretching tight your nerves to the maximum, while loading a zone).
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