Go Back   the Magicball Network > Forums > MBN Main Forums > General
Buy LBA1/Relentless from GOG.com Buy LBA1/Relentless from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from DotEmu Buy LBA2/Twinsen's Odyssey from GOG.com Buy Little big Adventure from GOG.com or DotEmu Buy Little big Adventure 2 from DotEmu or GOG.com

Welcome to the Magicball Network.

You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

General The general chatting goes on in here. That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2012-02-07, 16:00
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Unsaveable areas challenges

If a thread dealing with this topic exists already, please let me know. I didn't find any, but the subject may be discussed under different names.

Unsaveable area is a scene on a map, where the game cannot be saved. Mostly these are scenes that contain liquid only (water, gas, lava, ...), which surround the islands.

I propose the following chain of challenges (prove or prove impossible):

1. Enter an unsaveable area and stay alive for an indefinite amount of time
2. Move freely inside an unsaveable area
3. Pass from one unsaveable area to another, staying alive
4. Pass from an unsaveable area to a standard (saveable) area, staying alive
5. Complete the J McKalling's FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge
6. Complete the ManualPalace Challenge

Current status:
1. confirmed
2. confirmed
3. confirmed
4. unconfirmed
5. unconfirmed
6. likely impossible
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2012-02-07, 17:21
Zee's Avatar
Zee Zee is offline
<3 MP
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Nasty Nati
Posts: 1,284
Oh yeah this sounds fun. I'm gonna give em a go..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2012-02-08, 15:11
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Screenshots:



Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2012-02-10, 13:05
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89


Twinsen diving to explore the seabed! 'tis a weird place where many a hideous death lurks, can get wildly terrainy and oftentimes you hear dogs barking there...



A massive rift... probably tectonic plates meeting xD
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2012-02-10, 15:05
Mia's Avatar
Mia Mia is offline
/ʤæmfɪʃ/
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,080
Or is that where Atlantis is?
__________________
You drank every drip, every drop of my energy
You took every tick, every tock of my time
You sang every beat, every note of my melody
And gave it a name, so then it wasn't mine
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2012-02-11, 12:11
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Mia: Seems too narrow for that

Kasia has had some interesting findings here

http://forum.magicball.net/showpost....&postcount=115

namely there is a bug where you can get wrong planet displayed on holomap
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2012-02-11, 12:46
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Can someone explain the various things happening on the seabeds? My guess would be that these are just flat and empty areas, but probably since the game is a quite complex thing, unintentionally even the unassigned areas show lots of behavior. I'm interested in what could possibly result in:

A. The various terrain features. For example, there are mountains and rifts that Twinsen can climb. Often the scene begins flat except for one large rift, but upon some actions such as checking the holomap or sometimes even just esc and resume the terrain gets bumpy. The structure can be very irregular, such as some planes of various height, then some spikes etc.

A2. Twinsen's movement down there: sometimes he can use all modes of movement, sometimes he can only jump, sometimes he is sliding. Sometimes there are points where various death animations occur (e.g. the dying-in-lava animation can appear on Citadel seabed). This is basically a special case of the previous question, since Twinsen's movement possibilities should be determined by the terrain he is standing on.

B. sounds playing down there - often dogs barking, or the sound of escalators

C. the holomap bug: holomap showing Twinsun image on Celebration island seabed
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2012-02-11, 14:59
Battler's Avatar
Battler Battler is offline
Welcome to Zirla!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Koper, Slovenia
Posts: 5,318
Send a message via ICQ to Battler Send a message via AIM to Battler Send a message via MSN to Battler Send a message via Yahoo to Battler
- draguluin: I suspect it's simply terrain the game renders out of whatever random garbage it finds in the memory.
Also since the unassigned slots don't have a scene in SCENE.HQR, the game likely assigns them Twinsun as the planet they're on because most likely Twinsun has ID 0 which is the default.
With this, however, you've just made me think! The planet ID stored in scenes... I never thought of it before! I guess it's time to resume development of my LBA Scene Manager then.
__________________
Join #doki-doki on irc.ringoflightning.net for some nice chit-chat about anime, manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture now!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2012-02-12, 12:10
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
- draguluin: I suspect it's simply terrain the game renders out of whatever random garbage it finds in the memory
Ok the terrains aren't entirely random, but how precisely are they generated from data found at what places is probably more low level than I care to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler View Post
Also since the unassigned slots don't have a scene in SCENE.HQR, the game likely assigns them Twinsun as the planet they're on because most likely Twinsun has ID 0 which is the default.
With this, however, you've just made me think! The planet ID stored in scenes... I never thought of it before! I guess it's time to resume development of my LBA Scene Manager then.
Something like this could have occured to me.. Glad to have insipred you though.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2012-02-14, 19:20
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,868
Tell me, how did you managed to walk on the water and go to the seabed ?
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2012-02-14, 23:10
Kasia's Avatar
Kasia Kasia is offline
~
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 591
Haven't you ever done that ?
I found the way to do that here, on the forums. I can't remember how the topic was called though...
You should change the graphics quality to the lowest one (to make finding a right place to do that easier), look for a place where the visible area ends on the sea / lava (for example at the Twinsen's neighbour house), jump there and quickly press shift (turn on the inventory). After that you'll fall down ("underwater") without being killed.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2012-02-14, 23:12
Kasia's Avatar
Kasia Kasia is offline
~
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 591
Oh, and of course you have to press shift after the change of scene!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2012-02-15, 00:03
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,868
Works, thanks
I guess it's only me, but seeing a game glitched makes me seasick
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>

Last edited by Polaris; 2012-02-15 at 00:55.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2012-02-15, 17:45
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasia View Post
You should change the graphics quality to the lowest one (to make finding a right place to do that easier)
Actually it doesn't work (at least for me) when level of detail is not set to minimum.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2012-02-15, 18:13
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
I think there may be another way to try to go about the FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge. It is still connected with the unsaveable areas in a way so I post the new challenges here. It's about something I call diagonal jumping.

As usually, in game options set the level of detail to minimum, this time only to see scene boundaries.

7. prove or disprove that it is possible to diagonal jump. This means:

Suppose Twinsen is in a scene A that neighbours with some other scenes as in the following figure:

A | B
--|---
C | D

Is it possible to move Twinsen into scene D, without ever passing through either scene B, or scene C or any other scene?
Position Twinsen in the corner and try to jump directly to scene D by carefully directioning Twinsen. It seems that this may even depend on the location, so try more scene corners.



8. do diagonal jump even if scenes B and C are unsaveable

5. complete the FullZeelichB4Storm Challenge...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2012-02-15, 23:05
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugluin View Post
Actually it doesn't work (at least for me) when level of detail is not set to minimum.
It works for me, but comes back to normal when I press enter (therefor I drown).
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2012-02-17, 20:18
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It works for me, but comes back to normal when I press enter (therefor I drown).
Funny, this raises the question of what actions should still be considered legitimate when e.g. solving bug-exploiting challenges. By what you say, the behavior seems to be machine-dependent, that is, depend on one's OS or some kind of settings. So to explore bugs more fruitfully, you could mess with your computer. Anyway, unless one manages to pass back to indexed areas this doesn't open up a new way to the challenges.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2012-02-17, 20:28
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
As for the diagonal jumping, I managed to do something that very much seems like a diagonal jump.

If you have tried, then you were probably getting lots of situations when you passed through two scenes in one jump (the undesirable situation, since you want to jump straight into the diagonally adjacent scene), being only for a short amount of time in the middle scene. You probably noticed that there is a scene loading moment when you leave current scene: the screen fades to black and it takes a while to load the new scene. Anytime you pass thorugh two scenes, the two loadings are clearly perceptible. And I managed to make a jump where the middle scene doesn't appear at any time, nor there is any second loading blackout, simply: visually I made the diagonal jump.

It was a corner of some area at Citadel island near Twinsen's home - I don't remember which precisely. Once I have some more time I'll find it again and post a savegame so that you can judge it.

There would be an ultimate test of this diagonal jumping, if you managed to JSB from the Dome of Slate to the Citadel (there are two indexed citadel island areas - harbor and behind weather wizards lane - that are diagonally adjacent to the dome area).

Share your experience if you tried this, expecially if you got the diagonal jump and in what location.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2012-02-18, 01:12
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,868
I noticed that the pattern on these unsaveable zones is always the same. Land at the level of the water toward the top of Citadel island (where the cow is) and a big hole at the other side. This makes it impossible for me to jump from one scene to the other, I die because of the fall (bug tested while raining).
I guess this is normal though, considered that these scenes are actually the same ones.
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2012-02-23, 18:32
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I noticed that the pattern on these unsaveable zones is always the same. Land at the level of the water toward the top of Citadel island (where the cow is) and a big hole at the other side. This makes it impossible for me to jump from one scene to the other, I die because of the fall (bug tested while raining).
I guess this is normal though, considered that these scenes are actually the same ones.
For me, not all these unsaveable zones look the same. Most do start completely flat except for one large rift (then they can become very bumpy upon some actions such as checking the holomap). However, others such as unsaveable areas behind the lighthouse on Citadel during storm, or unsaveable (fluid) areas on the Emerald Moon (outside of the crater) start with entirely different terrain. Similarly on Zeelich they look different, they can actually have more layers there and you hear different sounds (elevator sounds) and the seabed will even move Twinsen as if on an elevator. Now that I think about it the scenes probably depend on the current "planet" only, but it confused me that I got different behaviors on Citadel during storm, it was probably something settings dependent though. Damn, actually I haven't checked the undergas unsaveable areas! Gotta do that right now...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2012-02-23, 18:45
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
And well the unsaveable scenes are probably instances of a same object in many ways, but if as Battler said their terrain is some random garbage read from memory, this thing is the same for a particular planet, and if you see the terrains the same as I do, it is also the same for different computers, so it's something fixed random, rather than something random. Also, the game correctly records your positions on holomap in different unsaveable regions and runs some check when you cross the borders

I also made a little bug where you can make Zoe and Twinsen stuck standing in front of the Tralu caves. I returned from Zeelich with not having stopped the storm before. After the crash-landing, entering any scene adjacent to the crash site triggers the Zoe-with-Twinsen-are-going-to-stop-the-storm sequence. I tried to jump into an unsaveable area but when I killed myself, Twinsen reappeared with Zoe before the Tralus cave and they got stuck standing there.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2012-02-23, 19:22
draugluin draugluin is offline
Magic Level: Green Ball
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 89
Ok just screens
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2.JPG‎
Views:	73
Size:	3.6 KB
ID:	9071   Click image for larger version

Name:	2lay.JPG‎
Views:	70
Size:	8.1 KB
ID:	9072   Click image for larger version

Name:	3.JPG‎
Views:	77
Size:	7.6 KB
ID:	9073  
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2012-02-23, 20:18
Kasia's Avatar
Kasia Kasia is offline
~
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugluin View Post
Damn, actually I haven't checked the undergas unsaveable areas! Gotta do that right now...
I've been to the unsaveable areas of the Wannies Island - pictures attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LBA6.jpg‎
Views:	88
Size:	222.5 KB
ID:	9074   Click image for larger version

Name:	LBA8.jpg‎
Views:	101
Size:	203.7 KB
ID:	9075   Click image for larger version

Name:	LBA7.jpg‎
Views:	81
Size:	300.7 KB
ID:	9076   Click image for larger version

Name:	LBA5.jpg‎
Views:	87
Size:	275.8 KB
ID:	9077  
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2012-02-23, 20:20
Kasia's Avatar
Kasia Kasia is offline
~
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 591
I've also found a place with a strange pattern of the surface.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LBA4.jpg‎
Views:	100
Size:	420.3 KB
ID:	9078  
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2012-02-24, 01:09
Polaris's Avatar
Polaris Polaris is offline
Polly parrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tippett Island
Posts: 5,868
That blue patter on Zeelich is the same as mine. When I stand on it, Twinsun moves onward like if he was on an escalator, but I don't hear any sound. When I move, it makes the same sound as flowers being walked on (you know, that "ouch" sound).
__________________
<((((((((((((([[[========================]]])))))))))))))>
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bug, challenge, empty, no save, unsaveable

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I was wondering - Is there any LBA1 challenges out there? moothead General 16 2009-09-26 03:05
Phase 1.3: What to do with unknown areas [design issue] elmuerte LBA Maps 10 2006-07-23 10:03
Secret Areas morshem First aid 46 2002-02-16 17:07
The Patch doesnt work in some areas. Audio_Energy01 First aid 2 2001-08-16 21:40
What areas? nights000 LBA DM Development 2 2001-07-29 07:28


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:24.


News Feed
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, the Magicball Network